Drugs V. Lucid Dreaming

I have a friend who I am honestly ashamed of that is into pill popping and taking some of the more mind warping drugs (shrooms, acid, etc.) and she claims that they increase her perception and self understanding. To be honest (again) I always sorta felt that this "increased perception" from drugs is just a feeling that is gained from just feeling completely wasted and overstimulated. I have asked many of my friends that do drugs if they can present me with a very specific example of how drugs have actually done this for them, made them realize or see something that they failed to perceive before they did drugs, a noun possibly. Most just say that they either can't explain it or they reiterrate that drugs increase awareness, yadayada, etc. I feel that they only feel "expanded" because they are told that drugs do this, in other words I think it's a placebo affect. When people talk about seeing music as colors its not that I don't believe them, its just that I feel that they only experience that because of the nature of drugs; they make you f*cked up and prone to hallucination. I liken it to visualizations (hallucinations) in Windows Media Player or something like that.

I would like to know from someone that has done both, drugs like acid and that lucid dreams, if what people say about expanding their minds from drugs is true. I know that through lucid dreaming one can explore their subconscious and literally discover themselves. I just don't see how drugs could possibly do this for you. Again, I DO see that drugs can cause people to change because of new experiences but I DO NOT see how they can discover themselves more than any average sober person with time to simply sit and think let alone a lucid dreamer.

Let me know if this makes no sense whatsoever.

First of all, let's say that by drugs you mean hallucinogens and psychedelics. These kinds of drugs offer users a totally different perspective on themselves, the world around them and the life in general. Such experiences are impossible at the baseline consciousness. The effects of hallucinogens are pretty unique, I've never felt anything remotely similar in any of my LDs. I guess years of deep meditation may yeild something similar.

I'll try to expand on the increased awareness, self understanding, etc. The "media player type" hallucinations are nothing compared to what is happening inside trippin person's mind. Imagine for a second having deeper memory, being able to process more outside world at once, understanding peoples motives and relationships, experiencing other peoples world models. The whole "break away from the ordinary" thing is like food for your mind and imagination. It may kickstart understanding and thinking that would never occur during the normal sober state.


Lucid dreaming may offer more possibilities than drugs, but it is also a lot harder. Drugs are easy. All you need is some money and some self control skill and you got a life changing experience!
Exploring your subconscious is not easy cause after establishing contact you have to interpret what you learned just as after a drug experience...

Maybe you should join your friends once and see it for yourself :P


PS. Let's not turn this into a flame thread or it will get locked

Different Drugs, different attitudes.

Sri Ramakrishna, over a century ago in India used to joke about the difference in Consciousness Attitudes between the Drunks and the Hashish Smokers -- the Drunks and the 'Hippies'.

Typically the Hippie Drugs DO indeed introduce the user to blurred and even erased lines of Ego Boundary -- for a while Self and Other are One big Mix of Mind and Matter.

It is quite an experience.

But I wonder about chronic drug users. Damn! they should get the Tee Shirt and move on.

Now, I am not PRINCIPLY against drugs. But the ones we have are so imperfect. Now, if Drugs were legalized, then the Pharmaceutical Companies would have some incentive to really invest into some Research and Development and get a family of Drugs that are a lot more Positive and a lot less Negative.

Pot makes people stupid. Honestly. Chronic Pot users are a danger to themselves and the people they work with. The forgetfulness and the utter lack of concern and motivation... it is all preparatory to some terrible accident.

And the hallucinogenic Drugs. Well it should be obvious. One first gets physically sick -- nauseous -- and then one becomes disordered and delirious. Doing that to one's self often could not possibly be healthy.

As a response to the original post, I can't give any specific examples of consciousness expansion, but what I can say is that you're being quite closed minded about what your friends tell you. Claiming to understand an experience better than somebody who's experienced it is odd to say the least, and extremely unlikely if not impossible. Would you say to a surfer or a skydiver or an accountant that you understand surfing or skydiving or accounting better than they do, despite never having done it? You can't possibly hope to understand something fully unless you experience it for yourself. I'd like to see what somebody like the late dr. timothy leary would say in response to your post, in fact I'd suggest reading some of his books as a starting point for ideas on the psychedelic experience outside of actually trying it (god forbid).