AN EMAIL I RECEIVED--NEED OPINIONS

Alright all...here is the first negative comment I have received regarding the new site:

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Hi Icedawg,
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After describing on an internet message board how I could sometimes know I was dreaming, and actually control what happened in the dream, another poster posted your link. Before I even had time to read it I was severely warned by the other posters (who had glanced at it) to stay away from your site because of the \"demonic\" pictures on it. I went to your site and realized these posters were disturbed by the rabbit picture and especially by the \"evil eye\" picture at the bottom of the page. *
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Now personally, after reading your entire site, I think you just put those pictures on there as a sort of gimmick to get people to think this was something cool and mysterious and \"magical\". However I don't think it is (magical) and I don't think you do either, so I don't really get the connection or think you need it. *
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Anyway, I enjoyed reading your site, but I just wanted you to know that those 2 pics are REALLY turning some people off and leading them to believe you are teaching some sort of occult practice. [/b]

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Any one of you who has read the new site will hopefully know that I am trying to dissuade people from labeling lucid dreaming as anything new-agey or occult like, and instead trying to show it in a down-to-Earth and practical light. My best guess here is that people have become so entangled with the stigma that encompasses lucid dreaming that they already fully see it in a bad light, thus are eager to jump at the chance to perpetuate their intransigent stance.

Never in a million years would I have viewed either of the mentioned graphics in the manner in which was stated. What troubles me most of all is that it wasn't just her opinion--she states several others in her forum shared that sentiment, and that's just one forum. On the one hand I certainly don't want to dissuade anyone from visiting our forum; on the other, if two such trivial pictures should be so instrumental in repelling someone from our site, I wonder if there's really any way to appease everyone no matter what I do.

Regardless, comments would certainly be appreciated.

thanks.

No, they are okay icedawg. IF someonbody is THAT stupid to think lucid dreaming is like that or whatever, they shouldn't know about it in the first place.

Well personally I have NO such problems with that banner. I think its cool. But I can see how others might interpret it differently.

Whatever happens is up to you Ice. I have no idea if what she's saying about many people having this opinion is true, but if it is...

Crap!!! They are on to us...

Long live Sata...
...
The dream! :D


Seriously though... unbelievable....
Perhaps if instead of the "evil eye" you would use.. I don't know... maybe a pink bunny? :happyme:

Ok I don't want to sound rude or anything but anyone who thinks the rabbit picture is demonic is nuts. I mean come on, in what world is a fluffy bunny a sign of evil? Anyone who thinks the pictures are bad are wound up so tight their heads are going to pop off.

I think you're right. Certain people are just looking for excuses not to read a site they wouldn't read anyway. I don't think you're losing any potential visitors because of the graphics. I'd speculate that if they were never there in the first place you'd have recieved the same letter with something else in their place.

And as for bunnies:

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Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes,
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses!
And what's with all the carrots?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway!?[/b]

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Bunny rabbit, George?


I liked the pink bunny. I like the gal with the green eyes as well....

actually, some loser is logging on as a guest and posting as Lcedawg, with L in lowercase so that it looks like lcedawg. You can tell the difference:

Icedawg, icedawg, lcedawg

-tb

well be right;)

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Originally posted by wasup
No, they are okay icedawg. *IF someonbody is THAT stupid to think lucid dreaming is like that or whatever, they shouldn't know about it in the first place.

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I must say I fully agree with Wasup's statement. If they are so one tracked minded to only see this as occult like without fully understanding the fundamentals behind Lucid Dreaming then Lucid Dreaming does not need them.

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Originally posted by Switch+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Switch)</div>

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<!--QuoteBegin-wasup

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No, they are okay icedawg. *IF someonbody is THAT stupid to think lucid dreaming is like that or whatever, they shouldn't know about it in the first place.

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I must say I fully agree with Wasup's statement. If they are so one tracked minded to only see this as occult like without fully understanding the fundamentals behind Lucid Dreaming then Lucid Dreaming does not need them.[/b]

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And chances are that Lucid dreaming won't "eccept" them in addition to not needing them.
You can't please everybody - You have done a remarkable job on this sight.
Keep in mind though, we have been a part of Dreamviews for quite some time now and it may be difficult to observe from a new persons perspective -Just a thought.

email the loser back and tell him he's a eejit (scottish word?)

.....Stupid...

I found the eyes...Not sure about the rabbit.

Even if we were occult, I see little harm in that. Occult practice is just another belief, is all.

But,..nah. I came here to discuss lucid dreaming. It's merely being aware of dreaming, right? The picture just makes it sound cooler!

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Originally posted by Switch
I must say I fully agree with Wasup's statement. If they are so one tracked minded to only see this as occult like without fully understanding the fundamentals behind Lucid Dreaming then Lucid Dreaming does not need them.

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Yep my words exactly.. Well put Switch.

what idiots. I'd like to see this forum of thiers.

have you gotten e-mails from others saying the same thing?

i never really noticed it... and i think that anyone who would give up on a site because of a pink bunny and green eyes might not have the... mental capacity to pursue lucid dreaming with any purpose or commitment.

lmfao, if you think a pink bunny is occult, you have some serious security issues.

this place is to homey to be considered occult

The first time I saw this site, i looked at the picture and thought: Slightly disturbing, but really cool!. Far from demonic.

PS - my avatar is slighlty more scary than the "evil eyes", and thats saying alot. :lol:

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Originally posted by icedawg
Alright all...here is the first negative comment I have received regarding the new site:

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Hi Icedawg,
*
After describing on an internet message board how I could sometimes know I was dreaming, and actually control what happened in the dream, another poster posted your link. Before I even had time to read it I was severely warned by the other posters (who had glanced at it) to stay away from your site because of the \"demonic\" pictures on it. I went to your site and realized these posters were disturbed by the rabbit picture and especially by the \"evil eye\" picture at the bottom of the page. *
*
Now personally, after reading your entire site, I think you just put those pictures on there as a sort of gimmick to get people to think this was something cool and mysterious and \"magical\". However I don't think it is (magical) and I don't think you do either, so I don't really get the connection or think you need it. *
*
Anyway, I enjoyed reading your site, but I just wanted you to know that those 2 pics are REALLY turning some people off and leading them to believe you are teaching some sort of occult practice.

---

Any one of you who has read the new site will hopefully know that I am trying to dissuade people from labeling lucid dreaming as anything new-agey or occult like, and instead trying to show it in a down-to-Earth and practical light. My best guess here is that people have become so entangled with the stigma that encompasses lucid dreaming that they already fully see it in a bad light, thus are eager to jump at the chance to perpetuate their intransigent stance.

Never in a million years would I have viewed either of the mentioned graphics in the manner in which was stated. What troubles me most of all is that it wasn't just her opinion--she states several others in her forum shared that sentiment, and that's just one forum. On the one hand I certainly don't want to dissuade anyone from visiting our forum; on the other, if two such trivial pictures should be so instrumental in repelling someone from our site, I wonder if there's really any way to appease everyone no matter what I do.

Regardless, comments would certainly be appreciated.

thanks.[/b]

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Some people are so fuckin' stupid it makes me want to barf.
I want to hunt that person down and cut his...off.
These people who are so narrow minded deserve to not be here. Don't mind it ice, they are especially dumb.

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Originally posted by dougdrums
lmfao, if you think a pink bunny is occult, you have some serious security issues.

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:rolllaugh:

There once was a time in my life when I was also closed minded, but I then chose to grow and be more open to things that didn't fit into my nice little view of good and evil.

Hopefully, this person will not pass up the opportunity to grow as well. I feel sorry for him/her. :cry:

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Originally posted by Seeker
There once was a time in my life when I was also closed minded, but I then chose to grow and be more open to things that didn't fit into my nice little view of good and evil.

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And I...but Seek! look at how much you have grown! And what you have grown in to...your an amazing man. A true role model, and a good father.

It has nothing to do with being closed minded. Its about being just stupid. I don't think any person, no matter how closed minded could be offended by a rabbit. You have to be actively looking for something to complain about and even then its a huge stretch. I mean come on a rabbit?

Let them leave, we don't want close minded imbeciles here, I think that the way it is we are doing great...

P.S Lowercase, the thing you said about cutting their **** off, a tad too fanatical

Besides if you intend of cutting the dicks of all the assholes out there you would need all the time in the world.... :P

lmao truthbearer...i had to copy that small writing into word and enlarge the font!!

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Originally posted by Truthbearer


Besides if you intend of cutting the dicks of all the assholes out there you would need all the time in the world.... :P

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Good point. :|

Such people just do not deserve to know about lucid dreaming.

There is enough scientific evidence to persuade anybody...

People fear what they do not know...

They don't understand dreaming, why it happens and what it means. Therefore to explore dreams the way we do, to change the natural order of things goes against nature.

Not only that, but there are also measures of control that prevent people from doing such things. The powers that be would never allow the population to know what they can achieve in dreams. Keep the people in their reality and they shall remain forever slaves. Show them a new world, true uninhibited freedom, and they shall want more and break their chains.

Their jobs are to assist in the unfullfillment of our true dreams, and to replace these by others that they reward us with for the sacrifice of our freedom.

I'm not sure I made myself completely clear, I hardly ever do when I am saying things like this, just because it is all linked together. It is hard to describe part without the whole...

That I like. :) Society confines the individual. This is a neverending conflict. Depressing as it might be.

It's true, he bears the truth. :(

It's enough insulting of them.

Do any of you know how painful it feels to be so superstitious? I did at times...I couldn't stand it...I just had to be curious.

Eg. I once thought it was un-Christian to try Lucid Dreaming, because of fear of being punished for replacing my God. I broke through dat, I just convinced myself that would be ridiculous.

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Originally posted by Squall
That I like. :) Society confines the individual. This is a neverending conflict. Depressing as it might be. *

It's true, he bears the truth. *:(

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In this lowercase society, we are conformed to what 'they' want. Like sheep, so many flock to the call of the shepard...of the trigger finger of deceit.

Yes i write. heh.

Wow, why are some of you so hostile toward the emailer? SHE did not have a problem with the pictures, but was just letting it be known that some people do.

You are right Thalia!! Welcome on board! :sunflower:

The e-mailer was just the bearer of the news. If anything, we should all be showing love by supporting her instead of showing hate by bashing either her, or ther person who told her those things.

Thank you for pointing this out!

Hey, did the "evil eyes" disapper?

WELCOME THALIA! :cheers:

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Originally posted by dougdrums
Hey, did the \"evil eyes\" disapper?

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awww...dougdrums misses the only thing that turns him on! :lol:

I have no problems with the banner, but what is it meant to suggest? It does seem rather spooky and I can see what they are getting at.

I'm missing alot of things that turn me on...

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Originally posted by Funkymonkey
I have no problems with the banner, but what is it meant to suggest? It does seem rather spooky and I can see what they are getting at.

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Well, if you are not a nazi, it does look pretty cool.

OMG IT'S THE BISS!! (Bunnies in Satan's Service)

LOCK YOUR DOORS AND HIDE YOUR CHILDREN!!

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Originally posted by RedStarSoldier
OMG IT'S THE BISS!! (Bunnies in Satan's Service)

LOCK YOUR DOORS AND HIDE YOUR CHILDREN!!

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AHHH! THE LUCID DREAMERS ARE TAKING OVER THE MISSILE SILOS, AND NUKING US!!! AHHHHHHHHH!........retards.*cough*

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Originally posted by Funkymonkey
I have no problems with the banner, but what is it meant to suggest? It does seem rather spooky and I can see what they are getting at.

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I thought the banner was funny - nothing really evil though. Where is the rabbit though? I haven't seen it so I can't give my opinion.

bunny picture, main site, i think it's the tutorials page

No it was on the dream control page. A magician and a rabbit - that's not occult. Stage magicians are not occult, so it appears the guy who wrote doesn't have any idea what he's saying.

That or he's just morbidly afraid of rabbits...

Either

1. An old man or woman lonely as can be who looks for the wrong in any body/ thing

OR

2. A mother looking at her 8 year old childs history on the internet and trying to find reasons to ground him.

Whatever the case may be, if they found that banner disturbing I hope they don't turn on the t.v.... Ever...

Ok, demonic eye thing, I can sort of understand that people can think its weird or something... Though I think its harmless....

Now this pisses me off:

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Now personally, after reading your entire site, I think you just put those pictures on there as a sort of gimmick to get people to think this was something cool and mysterious and \"magical\". However I don't think it is (magical) and I don't think you do either, so I don't really get the connection or think you need it. [/b]

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A picture suggests that a magician just pulled a rabit out of his hat, by magic. Now, add some lucid dreaming. What the hell does that picture mean now? YES, YOU CAN PERFORM "MAGIC" IN YOUR FUCKIGN LUCID DREAM.

To get people to think this was something cool and mysterious... Well, YES LUCID DREAMING IS FUCKING COOL, AND MYSTERIOUS.

All that damn' picture suggests is the controll you have and what you can do... Be like a magician, make things appear, change the scenery, have awesome powers, fly around.

And it all doesnt have ONE FUCKING BIT to do with OCCULT CRAP or TRYING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE SOMETHING IT ISNT.

I just think the person that emailed you doesnt know what she's talking about, or that he/she read the site at all. If that person did, he/she would've known why that picture was there, what it symbolises.

Stupid fucktard.

perhaps some way to counter that Ice is to put a 'summary' of what this site is on the main page, start with saying lucid dreaming is taking controll, and explaining how it works and that for some people it could be a religious/spiritual experience, but but that this site is not about that, it is about educating people on how lucid dreaming works... something like that.

was she referring to the pink bunny or the magic hat and white rabbit on the site? 'cause i can ALMOST see how someone could look at 'controlling your dreams' and seeing a picture of a magic hat, wand, and white rabbit as construeing we're not bein jus plain scientific over here...maybe change that one picture...while i dont think anybody will think it satanic etc. it will give the occasional 1 or 2 people the impression that we're working with magic tricks in our heads over here...remember, icedawg, you can please all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all of the time, but never all of the people all of the time.

E-mail the link to this topic back to the person who said that crap! :D

yeah, ice should do that.
I'd like to know which forum it was too, which stupid people think of bunnies as demonic

Yeah I feel you CT. I've never seen you this worked up. But I feel the same way. That person doesn't understand anything and attacking the issue and running away just let's me futher know what type of person we are dealing with here.

go and geez us this loser's email address, icedawg. i want him to experience something i call "you'd be as well binning your computer after this one, ass"...

[quote]Yeah I feel you CT.quote]

:shock:

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Originally posted by wasup+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wasup)</div>

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<!--QuoteBegin-ShadowNightWing

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Yeah I feel you CT.

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:shock:[/b]

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i noticed that, but i thought of it as a mistake, you dirty minded little prat.

Thanks for the input everyone. I promised the person who emailed me that I would not disclose her forum because apparently she has enough trouble there as it is. Regardless, I have since excised the banner in question and have also modified the text on the index page and the \"what is lucid dreaming?\" page so as to include appropriate references to the issues this email has brought up.

Modified index page:

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Perhaps you’ve noticed that this site doesn’t quite resemble what one may consider to be a typical “dreams” site. In our opinion too many sites unintentionally disseminate the idea that lucid dreaming is something best regarded as frivolous and farcical—concordantly lucid dreaming has attained a stigma that can only be abated by educating people about its true merits. In order to accomplish this, we take a very pragmatic approach to lucid dreaming on this site. Rhetorically, we attempt to extricate lucid dreaming from the ensnaring darkness of ignorance.

We acknowledge that to many people lucid dreams are a very spiritual experience, and many others like to correlate lucid dreaming to a variety of topics that one could categorize as “new-age.” Our approach, however, is very general to ensure that no one is excluded. Lucid dreaming deserves to be taken seriously, thus we’ve tried to present it on this site in a professional manner (though our logo—with its stark contrast to the site’s more-serious design—serves as a constant reminder that lucid dreaming itself can be a lot of fun). Ultimately we strive to present lucid dreaming in such a light so as to encourage its mainstream acceptance.[/b]

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Modified \"what is lucid dreaming?\" page:

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Lucid dreaming is evil or occult related

Some misguided people immediately assume lucid dreaming must be a sinister act; this is just plain silly. Denunciations such as this are the direct result of fear of the unknown—this site hopes to dispel such ignorance. There is nothing inherently evil about lucid dreaming; instead, there are many positive reasons to practice lucid dreaming.[/b]

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So far as the bunny-in-the-top-hat image is concerned, although I fail to see the reference to something evil, I will replace that image when I find one more appropriate because I don't want to imply that lucid dreaming is something magical--I simply used that image since often in lucid dreaming people use their control to make things appear.

On a related note I followed up her email with another asking her to explain her P.O.V. regarding the bunny image, since it seems rather plain to me that the idea of magic is a reflection of a person's will--thus a 'good' person would perform 'good' magic--she, however, refrained from comment. I'm assuming she has developed an unjustified fear that she cannot [rationally] account for. Probably the same kind of person that feels Harry Potter is evil....:rolleyes:

Anyway, again, thanks for the comments everyone.