Printable View
You know, in common LD you can see what is going on and you can recognize things and persons, and such. But they aren't the TRUE vivid LDs. The true vivid LD can be recognised as having a dream where you can clearly see as in reality (in a few cases better than in r.). I wonder how many people who have LD ever have had the TRUE vivid LD.
its worked only once for me. 1/8 times. 12.5% of my lds hahaha
I'm a newbe and had only a few LD so far, but some of them were very vivid.
In one I kept doing a reality check all the time coz I couldn't belive it could be dream.
I'm a bit confused about your post. When you say: "..having a dream where you can clearly see as in reality.." do you mean that you are perceiving the "waking world", or that you are perceiving the dreamscape with clarity matching that of the waking world?Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudOne
Sorry for confusing you. I meant that the clarity of dream matches reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneiro
I'm no expert but I'd say that Vivid dreams are something else than Lucid dreams, and one can have any of them without excluding the other.
How about the clarity EXCEEDING reality? 'Cause that's how my LDs are. They don't always stay that way, but almost every LD I've had has been so substantive that it is easy to forget I'm dreaming.
Yes, I've had a few of those VD with clarity exceeding reality as well. Those are pretty amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by pj
The thing is, I quite don't get how everyone who just started to have LDs says that the vividnes is inseparable element in LD. In LD you have sort of abstract view where you can see around yourself but... it's not vivid. Because Vivid dreams are something else than Lucid dreams, in my opinion. Any help of an expert would be appreciated here.
Theres a huge contrast between some Ld's
For instance some can just be "ooh im dreaming, ill try do something"
While others can just give you the hugest adrenaline buzz ever, it feels like your there and theres so much to do, your mind is in perfect understanding of the situation and when you wake up.... You feel lush and refreshed.
:)
Luuurves that feeling.
It's my opinion that vividness is separate from LD: sometimes they go together but often they do not. See my post in "Non-vivid LDs" for more info.
I totally suck at inducing techniques :bigteeth: I can only become lucid during the dream, and even then I dont use RCs. For me, the dream has to be so vivid its like I'm lost in another world, only then can I become lucid. I dont know why, but the less real a dream is, the more shadowy the images, the less likely I'll go lucid.
Yup keep in mind you can always increase the clarity in the dream world just by yelling out CLARITY! and that should do it. I've done this serveral times to make the dream world more vivid and it has never failed me not once. I think confidence would play a significant role in regards to your results.
It's easy to have vivid LDs everytime if you know the right techniques. I guess it's different for everyone...but for me...examing the palms of my hands and saying something like "stabilize lucidity now" always does the trick. And yes...I've had many many hyper-real lucids. ^_^
All my dreams are vivid, even LDs, the only thing that fades them out is when I begin to forget them, which, depending on how much I think about that dream, could be years, could be a week. But I've had lots of vivid LDs, if not all then most. Some LDs are way better than the perception of the waking world, I believe it's called hyper-reality or something like that.
yeah ive had a few, those things are sweet. Only one of my WILDs have been as vivid as real life though.
My very first LD was like that. Since then I have had only one other one that had AMAZING vividness. Definately worth it when they happen!
I've had one where I just had absolute power and I found an empty space and filled it with forest. Then I sat down in a clearing and observed the individual grass stems. It was pretty damn amazing. Most of my others have been rather unclear though :(
Toaster
My first LD was probably one of the most vivid dreams i've ever had... it was like, "good thing this is a dream or id be totally fucked" OMG NO WAY im in a dream awesome! And everything became so clear and realistic i couldn't believe it was a dream. Maybe it was just the excitement and shock of finally having an LD that did it.
it is a continuum (sp).
personally i grade lucids on a three point scale: low. medium. and high (or Vivid). though one could use ten or even a hundred.
IMO, vividness is an inseparable element in all lucids. a neccessary ingredient in some measure.
in order for one's mind to real-ize that it is dreaming, it must instill a sense of vividness (or real-ness one could say) into the surrounding environment, yet still remember it is dream.
of the fair number of lucids that i've had, the majority are low. little more than murky wandering with intermittent and brief moments where i semi-fully remember it is all a dream.
in these low-grade lucids i am perceptive and aware within what i am experiencing as "the most real" moment. only vaguely however, like a dispersed cloud of consciousness (vividity) misting over the dreamscape and contacting only enough surface for dim realizations. an incomplete puzzle if you will, but with subtler pieces which operate more as interlacing fields/states of mind than a simple puzzle.
there have only been a handful of high, Vivid lucids, in which the environment was verging on hyper-real, and my powers of synthesis, focus, and clarity of thought were intact and engaged.
i will never forget these, as they are the main reward for practicing lucid dreaming. extremely fascinating and psychedelic. real paint on real walls with real people...except a different kind of real.
reality is the result of synthesis. of projecting a web of relation from some focal point which does the experiencing.
----
one can be lucid in an imageless void (as i've experienced a few times, likely in a state of sleep paralysis) where the normal concepts of space (dimension), time, and even Self (the central synthesizer) are stripped bare and even cease to exist in the usual waking-life sense. yet my mind is still aware that it is dreaming (or creating reality at that immediate moment. even though it could never state that verbally, or shape tangible thoughts.
after one such experience in this imageless, feelingless, noiseless vaccum, a more normal dream began to develop and greater numbers of the vibrational fields which compose our waking reality were available for projection.
those fields (or puzzle pieces) were then gradually available for instillation into what the moment before was a dimension-less void.
that particular night i awoke after a very brief, medium-vivid lucid. but if every single field of vibration, and all their natural relationships with each other had become available, it would have simultaneously increased the Vividness to High levels. where colours can be concentrated and vibrant even more than is usual. where one's mind is unified in a focused state capable of very precise synthesis.
a continuum of elements arranged to create consciousness...a spectrum of spectral fields.
from:
Void to Vivid.
Vapour to Water.
Wave to Particle.
Being to Self.
but i maintain that these metaphorical points, or places, or immediate moments, or states of mind...however one words it....and all points in-between, have some sense of vividness.
from Black Hole to a seemingingly Infinite Sphere saturated in pure colours and chromatic fields and acoustic sound vibrations and odours and gravity.
yet all of it is simply suchness. and vividness is inseparable from suchness.
Vivid:
graphic: evoking lifelike images within the mind; "pictorial poetry and prose"; "graphic accounts of battle"; "a lifelike portrait"; "a vivid description"
having the clarity and freshness of immediate experience; "a vivid recollection"
bright: having striking color; "bright dress"; "brilliant tapestries"; "a bird with vivid plumage"
intense: (of color) having the highest saturation; "vivid green"; "intense blue"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
clarity and freshness. fresh implies life (like the "lifelike images within the mind" in the first definition). life is a continual process. a seamless interplay of visible and invisible forces.
Immediate: contiguous: very close or connected in space or time; "contiguous events"; "immediate contact"; "the immediate vicinity"; "the immediate past"
having no intervening medium; "an immediate influence"
immediately before or after as in a chain of cause and effect; "the immediate result"; "the immediate cause of the trouble"
of the present time and place; "the immediate revisions"
performed with little or no delay; "an immediate reply to my letter"; "prompt obedience"; "was quick to respond"; "a straightaway denial"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
to separate vividness, or immediacy, or clarity of sight from ANY experience seems impossible.
the only intervening medium between moment to moment is Self. and the feeling of being alive as an individual, indivisible entity (one can't live without their heart or liver or stomach) is largely based on memory. of the records of past experiences.
and experience is the imediate revisions which relate a human being to any reality, without fundamentally changing that reality.
computer ape constantly refreshing It-Self.
*laughs* mary jane made me say it.
Wombing...I just wanted to say...that I thought this was a very interesting post to read. And while I may not agree completely with everything you've said, I still found it very interesting. So, thanks. ;) You're awesome kiddo.
interesting perspective wombing... I dont necesarilly agree with it, but interesting still the same. I've never really thought that deeply about vividness or clarity or what have you, so you said some very thought provoking things, which are always refreshing.
happy you two found it interesting...
to be truthful, i had been up all night from a painful leg injury, and had smoked far too much cannabis to communicate clearly.
so upon re-reading, i'm with you y'all...some interesting stimuli for thought, but i don't completely agree with everything i said. hehe.
One Love... :)
I think my first LD was like that. I mean, I didn't have 100% control on the situation, but things that I wanted were happening just because I thought of them..
No worries. Cannabis can make you say interesting things :) . Yay for weed.Quote:
Originally Posted by wombing
Weird. My first lucid dream was extremely non-vivid.
I believe i've been lucid 4 times, but the only vivid ones were the last 2 I've had, which was ten days ago and three days ago.
Most of my LD's are hyper realistic, though I haven't had many in a while now. :(
I've got to say though, realism and vividness is lovely, but the abstract natiure of lucid dreams appeals to me. Perhaps the best lucid dream I ever had involved a black and white dreamscape with certain things in colour (kind of like Sin City I suppose, alough much more hazy and odd). Everything was constructed completely wrong and there was a lone violin sound playing wherever I went. For some reason I was floating on an umbrella during the whole time, just taking in everything around me.
That sort of lucid dream, I prefer over vivid dreams any day.
Haha...that's funny...I'm exactly the same way when I smoke. And I've been smoking way too much lately. But you would be too if you had...magical weed. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by ;359795
same with my first LD.
For me when you talk about the "clarity" I also find it to be peaceful .Everything is clear and calmer if that makes any sense. Having the sense of "clarity" comes not all the time but often when I'm lucid.
Have had a few LDs where things look/seem/are clearer and more integrally pure than in real life. Dreams of this caliber tend to be short-lived, however, at least for now. There was one dream I had where I stared into the carpet on the floor and I could magnify my eyesight to see down into the fibers of the carpet. It was pretty sweet, yeah, but I would have preferred to be in Gondor or on the Moon, etc.