Thread: Murder, Dream Freedom, And Where T Draw The Line

Dude my birthday is tommorrow, and ill be 17 Rofl, happy birthday man!

whoohoo april 9th


I dont think anything you do is really bad in a LD unless you cant draw the line inbetween dream and reality.

But, possibly you could be hurting your mind (possibly creating murder fantisies) stuff like that.

I guess thoughts never hurt anyone though....or have they?

Originally Posted by ShYne123

Dude my birthday is tommorrow, and ill be 17 Rofl, happy birthday man!

whoohoo april 9th
I dont think anything you do is really bad in a LD unless you cant draw the line inbetween dream and reality.

But, possibly you could be hurting your mind (possibly creating murder fantisies) stuff like that.

I guess thoughts never hurt anyone though....or have they?[/b]

dude happy birthday! woohoo 9th of april, do you mind if i add you as a friend?
ahve a great day tomorrow hope you get everything you want.

Myself, being a pacifist, I would probably be a little disturbed upon waking up. Even despite the fact that it's all fake: I've had trouble playing realistic shooting video games once before because of this.

You may be different, though. The only problem I could see is that it may make you more aggressive.

I think one can do whatever one wants in one's dreams. There's no need to draw a line unless one wants to.

In a non-lucid dream I remember killing Gandalf by repeatedly kicking him, lots and lots. Until he was just a skeleton. And I kept kicking him more until his bones fell apart. But when I woke up I just laughed, it didn't really affect me badly. (And during the dream I thought it was a videogame.) And earlier in the dream I was at my church with guns killing people. Still thinking it was a videogame.

This was when I fell asleep while playing a shooting game.

I think the answer of where to draw the line greatly differs from person to person. Personally I have no problem with violence/murder in my dreams, however if someone has a mental issue involving violent behaviour I would definitely discourage dream violence. At the same time I wonder if LDing could be used by those with violent tempers or illegal sexual needs to obtain their "Fix".

Yes, i agree, but what if somone attacks you in a dream, is using the uzi like the 1 n signature to blow there heads aparet graphicly acceptable, or is it still considered by pacifists as un-acceptable, even in dream self defense- i know i will blow off any DC's heads i see fit, as in my unexperinced opion i dont believe it will effect me as iam already an ex boxer and a current grappler with strikes and kicks choke hold ect, and im also learning krav maga violence to me is acceptable if somone threatens you or yours life and safety and i will act in accordance with a hostile threat.
but in a dream i see it as i need no reason and the people were made by and have no real feeling family ect, so i can do away with them as i see fit- does anyone understand me? or am i a complete lunatic...*silence and crickets in the background*,

What a horrible little world we live in with all these violent, soul-less teenagers running around.

Thank You for giving me no hope for the future and being glad that I did not have kids.

I don't see a problem with murdering in LDs. I look at it just like a video game in that the only reason you do it is because you know that no one is actually being killed so there are no consequences. I'm sure there are some people with mental problems so this definately won't help them but I think they would be violent in real life anyway. For a normal person who knows that it's a dream they should be able to do it since it won't affect anyone else. I don't think video games lead to violence and the same is true for LDs.

I agree with you completely conisag, i dont wanna sound crazy or anything but i think violent dreams are the most fun. I think of it as the same as a movie or video game, the characters aren't real and there are no real life effects of the violence, but some people just dont like that kind of stuff and that's completely understandable. It's just preference. Some people think violence is entertaining and acceptable and others dont, I dont think we should make it any more complicated than that.

I also agree with you conisag. If you are prone to being violent or it gives you a desire to do it IRL you probally shouldn't kill DCs. Otherwise do whatever you want. Isn't one of the main reasons to lucid dream to act out actions that you would not be able to IRL.

I agree that people who suffer mental problems, or if it causes you to have violet fantasies IRL should not kill DCs. I also agree that a dream is comparable to a video game in that no one is actually getting hurt and really you're just blowing off some steam. I personally prefer to pursue less violent activities, but to each his own. Of course fighting back against a homicidal DC is okay with me.

I can't see myself killing a DC. Maybe it's my personality. Maybe it's because dreams feel very realistic. But I don't think I'd kill anyone, even if I didn't like them. Maybe I'd strap them to a table and fart on them, or cackle as I treat them with Chinese Water Torture, but I wouldn't kill them.

I would, however, love to kill me some zombies. >=D

Originally Posted by Abra

I would, however, love to kill me some zombies. >=D[/b]

Been there, done that. Zombies are among the most fun creatures to slaughter. They think they can gang up on me? Ha! *whips out machine gun* Sorry, got a little of topic. Carry on.

I know all the people I am reading are only teen agers and it is a SCIENTIFIC FACT that your brains are emotional rather than rational but what you are doing is basicly training yourself from a young age to think that violence is all right. I was just reading a book where therapists no longer are using those techniques where they ask their patients to vent their anger by hitting stuff because it does not solve the problem. The anger has only been temporarily stopped, not the reasons for it being solved.

You might try exorsicing the rational part of your brains and asking yourselves why you like violence so much that you actually want to cause that reaction in you again and again and if there could not be a better way to get your high.

I speak thusly after reading this book on anger and trying to remember to be compassionate. So this is my way of trying to make the world better. So here is an example of what it is that bothers me so much with your violent-loving minds.

We all know that a drug user uses more and more and more and more frequently in order to get the same high as the first one. As the body becomes more and more sensitized, I think that is the right word, it is harder for the drug to make the person high as before so more and more is required.

If you continue to allow violence to be a source of enjoyment and say that it is all right can you confidently say that this will not leak over into other areas of your life? Can you handle real problems and not get angry? Can you get the same high again and again and not get bored and seek other ways of raising the same stimuli? Would just killing in dreams remain satisfying? And why on Earth, or any other world, would you feel that violence is exciting?

And more to the point: how on Earth are we supposed to stop war, hatred, 'us and them' thinking and other behaviors that only cause problems?

Aggression is not fun nor should it ever be promoted as fun. Shame on video game makers.

just to add to your point I think this quote fits quite nicely;
“All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become.” - Buddha

Bushido

I am against dream murder in general for the simple reason that just because it has no effect doesn't mean you should do it, and your morals should at least somewhat apply to your dreams. That being said, I have nothing against having random violence like video games and stuff like that where you go matrix on everyone, as that is just fun. What I don't like is the idea of taking out your pent up anger on someone by doing horrible and violent things to them in a dream. It is better than doing it in reality, but I somehow have a suspicion that it still is not healthy, and I just believe that violence is very rarely the answer.

I think that the sad sicko teenies on this thread already have serious mental problems. You are messed-up people. Do you think that what you do is healthy atall? And some say lucid dreaming isn't dangerous. Sheesh..

..but hang on.. what does all this have to do with LUCID dreaming? All it is are the sick fantasies of some very screwed-up kids. Grow up.

Originally Posted by dreamship

We all know that a drug user uses more and more and more and more frequently in order to get the same high as the first one. As the body becomes more and more sensitized, I think that is the right word, it is harder for the drug to make the person high as before so more and more is required.[/b]

Comparing drugs to violence makes no sense at all. Drugs are addictive substances that were outlawed by the government for a reason. Drugs cannot be handled by a rational person in theory because of the strong addiction they hold over you. But violence, on the other hand has no addictive effect on people whatsoever, and a rational normal person knows the difference between make believe violence and real violence. People become addicted to drugs because they can't live without them, i've never heard of anyone who couldn't live without violence. Violence on tv or video games is just a choice, some people like watching movies like Saw and other people like watching American Idol. If you sing too much is that bad for you too? It's just preference, please stop taking it past that.

I woke-up from a Lucid dream today where I was being bugged by this little kid and as soon as I realised I was dreaming, I killed him straight the way. Sounds kinda bad now I'm admitting it, I killed a child! Lol, but I can't really remember how I killed it, just sorta shoved him and he was dead....It was just to get him out of the way, does that make me a bad person?!

Originally Posted by Jules2007

I woke-up from a Lucid dream today where I was being bugged by this little kid and as soon as I realised I was dreaming, I killed him straight the way. Sounds kinda bad now I'm admitting it, I killed a child! Lol, but I can't really remember how I killed it, just sorta shoved him and he was dead....It was just to get him out of the way, does that make me a bad person?![/b]

lol, nah it doesn't make you a bad person, it all happened in your mind, you didn't want anything in your way when lucid, and you weren't to know that pushing the kid would kill him, just enjoy the experiences, oh and welcome to the forums

Originally Posted by Wasted24

Comparing drugs to violence makes no sense at all. Drugs are addictive substances that were outlawed by the government for a reason. Drugs cannot be handled by a rational person in theory because of the strong addiction they hold over you. But violence, on the other hand has no addictive effect on people whatsoever,[/b]

Somehow I think you are wrong on that. One day I'll google for a report on it. It would seem to me that if sex can be considered addictive then violence can be also. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have tons and tons of violent music and video games and people who play them constantly.

Playing violent music, or any music, and video games causes chemical changes in the brain. It feeds that excited energy in the player. In order to continue having this high they continue to rage to their music or their games or whatever it is that gets them into that state.

This is addiction.

Whatever.

I have mentioned it. If no one wants to listen I can't help that. You've got parents, let them be your parent.


EDIT: http://www.indianchild.com/computer_games_addiction.htm

http://www.medialit.org/reading_room/article389.html

It would seem to me that one of the greatest advantages of being able to Lucid Dream is being able to escape the moral confines of everyday life. Applying a 'code of honor' in a lucid dream sort of defeats the purpose, imo. Even if violence in dreams causes an increase in violent behavior in real life (and I've never seen any evidence for that), I don't think it would be right to expect someone to "follow the rules" in a dream.

That said, I don't get much enjoyment from killing in a dream... aside from some rare situations (avenging another dream character who has been killed, killing the super villain, etc). I also don't believe that it would be healthy to focus your Lucid Dreams explicitly on killing.

Originally Posted by naikou

It would seem to me that one of the greatest advantages of being able to Lucid Dream is being able to escape the moral confines of everyday life. Applying a 'code of honor' in a lucid dream sort of defeats the purpose, imo. Even if violence in dreams causes an increase in violent behavior in real life (and I've never seen any evidence for that), I don't think it would be right to expect someone to "follow the rules" in a dream.

That said, I don't get much enjoyment from killing in a dream... aside from some rare situations (avenging another dream character who has been killed, killing the super villain, etc). I also don't believe that it would be healthy to focus your Lucid Dreams explicitly on killing.[/b]

I think there is a difference between following "rules" in a dream and having some sort of personal moral code that you try to abide by in a dream. Asking someone to follow the rules and not be violent at all in a dream is ridiculous; sometimes that pointless violence can be a stress reliever and have a calming effect (that's what shooting games do for me on the rare occasion I actually play them). I think it is reasonable though to say that raping and violently slaughtering people in disgusting ways is going a bit far, as that cannot be healthy for your brain, and is just sick (especially considering you could just have the person want sex in the dream). These morals differ for everybody though, and I think holding everyone to a specific set of rules is stupid and pointless. For me, I would feel like shit if I for example strangled someone I don't like in my dream without violent provocation, but for someone who has a true hatred for someone else that is just building up, it may be different, and could be a good way to vent their anger. On the other hand one of my lucid goals is to do some matrix-like fighting and I see nothing wrong with this kind of pointless violence, but someone with a different moral code may think differently.