A fellow at another message board has challenged the people who post there to say what lucid dreams are any good for.
I think that for the posters here to answer the same question would be a useful exercise.
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A fellow at another message board has challenged the people who post there to say what lucid dreams are any good for.
I think that for the posters here to answer the same question would be a useful exercise.
Ok... I'm game.
1) Lucid dreams are FUN. Fun is a worthy human endeavor, in my humble opinion.
2) LDing is a challenging discipline. It isn't easy for most people, and brings a great sense of accomplishment.
3) LDing is an opportunity to explore "foreign territory." It is an adventure.
That's a good start.
Well, I thought about saying, "What if it's a nightmare?" in the first post of this thread.
Obviously I should have done that.
What about having sex while defying gravity...
Good luck trying that in real life!
Many people have conquered their fears in dreams. By flying and then diving very fast, I defeated my fear of falling. That's good isn't it?
A list has already been started somewhere on the site...
Anyway I'll say that it's a beautiful way exploring your mind without wasting any time! (meaning you are sleeping, obviously)
There are lots of practical uses too, all of them discussed in Exploring the World of Lucid dreaming. Some of these include- Practicing for real world events such as giving a speech in front of people.
What good is a vacation? What good is watching a movie? It's an endeavour into excitement and adventure.
It's an opportunity to make creative connections that may not occur to you in the waking state.
It's a chance to live life to its fullest and effectively extend the number of years you live. I don't mean in physical calendar years but, in years of mental experience.
It's a chance to do dumb, dangerous things without the dangers of doing dumb, dangerous things.
It's a chance to see and do things that aren't available to you in the real world.
It's a way for those who can't walk to walk and run.
It's a chance to "see" people that no longer live.
It's a chance to live out your wildest fantasies and be anything you want.
It's great fun and hugely satisfying.
You can completely eradicate nightmares when you know they are only dreams while they are occurring.Quote:
Originally Posted by arne saknussemm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaught
that pretty much sums it up...
Gives you something to do while you're sleeping?:rolleyes:
OK, how about the opposite...why not lucid dream? It seems as tho you may have reasons against it.
(Arne, what do you think of how people have completed the lucid task this month that you suggested? Do you have any new opinions? Just wondering.)
I have only one reason for lucid dreaming. I'm a writer and a filmmaker, and many of my ideas have come to me through non-lucid dreams. When I dream, my mind is not distracted by worldly concerns and devotes itself as near 100% to creativity as I will ever achieve. By harnessing the power of dreams, I can wield this creativity as a tool to create things I never could have even imagined in a conscious state of mind. To me, every other benefit of lucid dreams (the fun, the entertainment, the beauty) are just subsidiary perks, though even they alone would make it worth the effort.
I didn't suggest any task here, and I haven't kept up with any task that might have been presented here as if I suggested it. However, I do know that at least one person who posts here did something he should NOT have done in a lucid dream -- the one thing that I specifically stated here that nobody should ever do in an LD. But he and I have discussed that privately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam
My Yahoo Group has almost 70 members now, and I know what everyone there is doing.
Facing nightmare's in lucid dream's is also a lot fun!
at least I think so. It's alway's been one of my favorite
kind of Lucid adventure's. Maybe it's just an ego thing.
But I love the feeling I get, knowing there is nothing in
my dream world that has any power over me.
There are thing's I would not do in a Lucid Dream.
Like killing somebody, There is no reason for it.
I would rather let someone try and kill me. And laugh
at there surprised expression when they find out they
can not.
But I don't think anybody has the right, to tell anybody
what they can, or can't do in there own dream's.
just my opinion.
It's a great way for discovering things about yourself...
It's a great way to get inspiration for many arts...
You can project stuff for your life or your future in a lucid dream (you can go over many options of your life to help you choose, you can project your dream place and live in it, etc).
Most other stuff that was already mentioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arne saknussemm
That task.Quote:
Originally Posted by arne saknussemm
Why are you afraid of tree's?
Nitpick: You don't use an apostrophe there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caradon
My running theory is that he was attacked by a tree in a dream.
I don't know where that quote of arnesaknussemm came from but, since it's here now:
How is that NOT controlling a dream. When you purposely carry plans over from waking life then execute them in a dream then you've controlled the dream.
How is merging with a tree - or touching them or "having anything to do with them" - a "bad thing to do"?
We obviously have wildly different ideas of what lucid dreaming is all about.
A man can have sex with Marilyn Monroe anything me wants to when he's awake. That's called a daydream. Dreams when you're asleep are an entirely different matter.
Why does that need to be said? It's a no-brainer.
And no, "he" wasn't attacked by a tree in a dream.
If you insist on touching a tree or talking to one in a lucid dream after I've told you not to, then go right ahead.
And if you're wondering whether the experiences of the 68 people who are carrying out tasks in my lucid dreaming group have altered my thinking in any way whatsoever as to what dreaming and lucid dreaming are about, the answer is emphatically no.
I dont really have a problem with trees, I was just wondering why you do.
No big deal though, to each his own.
just a note: your belief's creat your experience.
You missed the important part -- 'Why?'Quote:
Originally Posted by arne saknussemm
Sensible things an umbrella would say concerning this thread:
- Arne saknussemm is not making a lot of sense
- It seems lseadragon was right about the fact that Caradon likes the apostrophe key a lot
- Some good reasons for lucid dreaming that aren't tied to lucid dreams directly include the fact that even normal dreams can be incredible stories which can teach the dreamer something about him/herself, and the fact that keeping a dream journal is a good start in fighting a lack of discipline.
Non-sensible things Rabindranath Tagor said concerning trees:
- "Trees are the earth’s endless effort to speak to the listening heaven."
Arne, in the other thread where you said that you didn't think people could control their dreams, I begain to wonder about control and even wonder if you were right. I mean, even tho you suggested the tree-walking thing, and said that it would prove that people could have control, AND I did it, I still wondered. How did I know that I didn't just dream that I had control, if that makes sense, and if it is different than actually having control. I have talked to several people (who seem to have good control), and, combined with my own experiences, I think now that it is real control, and not just an illusion or part of the dream that you happen to be lucid in. In a way, my own usual lack of control is a little evidence (for me) that on those rare time that I have control, something different is happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by arne saknussemm
Arne, do you believe that dreams are something other than experiences contained in the individual's brain? I mean, do you think that dreams have a reality outside the person and are influenced by outside forces? Is your argument against control and interacting with trees something metaphysical or spiritual, or do you have neuropsychological or other scientific arguments against it?
Just wondering what we're talking about, exactly. You have made me think a little about the subject and helped me clarify what I believe to be happening, so thank you; however, I'm confused about what you're really trying to say to us about dreaming.
I've stated here very clearly and more than once that things are going on in people's dreams that have nothing to do with the dreamer.
And instead of telling me that you "controlled your dream" in a task that I didn't assign, why don't you join my group and carry out a real task?
Why are the tasks here not "real"? Why would you believe people anymore if they do your tasks than if they do the tasks here? Do you believe that peoplke here did the walking-tree task? (I know I did, and I assume the others did too.) Can you give an example of one of your tasks?Quote:
Originally Posted by arne saknussemm
PS I missed a little of your above post, so I guess you do mean that you think outside forces are controlling dreams?
I've got 68 people working on tasks in my group, including some who claimed before they joined to have super-powers of dreaming. But as soon as they joined, their powers suddenly vanished. Maybe that was just a coincidence, but I don't think so.
I've found that the people who talk about lucid dreaming on the Internet the most are not the ones who really can do it. The handful who are good at it are quiet and unassuming.
If you go by what people post, you'd never suspect which ones can actually do it.
I know, my writing sucks.:?Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrella
How would your group be any different? Wouldn't those same people just claim they completed the tasks in your group even if they were unable to?Quote:
Originally Posted by arne saknussemm
And more importantly, for me at least -- what's so bad about trees?
Where is this group? I haven't looked for it yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by arne saknussemm
Oh, so as long as you don't talk about it you're a lucid God but, if you aren't afraid to talk about with others who are also into it then you're lying? Well, I'm glad we're all making up lies about what we do in our dreams just to impress people we'll never meet, and I thought I was the only one. At least we all found common ground as yarn spinners, cool! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by arne saknussemm
But seriously, I'm sure we could all find better things to lie about than the fantasy world of dreams.
And what's up with the trees? We're tired of asking. Either tell your theory or give it up. Or perhaps we can't handle the truth. Yeah, that's probably it.
Really! Arne, I don't know why you think we are all pathological liars with such pitifully boring lives that we sit around and talk abut dreams that we didn't really have. Since I know what I can do in dreams, which is low to mid-level on the scale of lucid dream ability, I assume that there are others who are also having lucid dreams and not making up everything. If you haven't noticed, there's not really a lot of glory to be had in life for good dreaming ability; aside from a few people in this forum, I don't talk about this with anybody, because nobody I know IRL could really give a shit. Believe me, I'm "quiet and unassuming" most of the time about my dreams. I don't really consider it a "power", it's just an amusement or a curiosity or something interesting to think about, and which can which be developed with time and effort. There's just a few people who like to talk about it; luckily we can meet here to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaught
Arne, you say you don't believe that people can control dreams, right? (Despite the fact that some of us made trees walk? I'm just asking.) So why do you have a group that you assign tasks to? Do you like try to see if you can make them dream something in particular? I'm just wondering why you're doing it. Are your tasks like scientifically designed or something? Why would people lose their ability as soon as they try to do your tasks? That is not much incentive to join. If you don't tell people why you are doing it, why should they join your group? We do the tasks assigned here for fun, and to have a goal. I think it is fun to do things other than just what I think of, so why don't you give us a reason for doing your tasks?
I wish you would at least tell us if you are coming from a mystical viewpoint or something. At least I'd know not to bother. It seems like you must not be a good lucid dreamer, so you think no one else can do it either. Well I'm not the best, but since I can do it a little, I figure there are people who are better than me and who aren't lying about it.
Why don't you just start a thread here of your tasks, then we can decide if we want to do them or not? You haven't given any examples. Actually, I might join your group just to see what's going one, but I don't do well with computers and I'm lucky to be even doing this much. Maybe you explain it more there, but I don't know why you can't explain it here. Do you ever read the lucid task area here?
Oneironaught,and Moonbeam, thank you!
That statement was really anoying me! you put my feelings
into words exactly. I feel much better now.
after all, Talking about Lucid Dreaming is what Dream Views
is for. other wise why be here at all!
Arne, what constitutes a "real" task in your opinion? You have said all this stuff about people not being able to do your tasks, and so they cannot really control their dreams. But you've never told us what any of these tasks are. You'll probably say to join your yahoo group to find out. But I am not a particularly advanced lucid dreamer, and I don't get too many lucids anyway, so I would probably have no opportunity to complete your tasks.
So tell me, what are some of these tasks that nobody can complete?
And by the way, if your argument for your statement that nobody can control their dreams is that we're just dreaming of control without really having it; I ask you, wherein lies the difference?