Dangers Of Lucid Dreaming?

I have recently been thinking that perhaps Lucid Dreaming is not that good for our us and have put it on hold until somebody can shed some light upon my concerns.
Firstly when I was awaking at 5am each to record my dreams I noticed a lack of concentration that day at school, leaving me thinking that it was because I had interrupted some vital process of the sleeping mind (I am only 15 so my brain is still developing)
Secondly we have to train ourselves to LD thus breaking natural barriers in our mind that could be there to safeguard against dream lucidity, so surely it's not natural and may have harmful effects.
Sorry if i'm talking rubbish here but if anyone understands me please share your thoughts. Also if your just starting out don't let this put you off trying to learn, as Lucid Dreaming is a very rewarding experience and PROBABLY not dangerous.
Thanks

Your second point is an interesting one. I once read an opinion on this and I remember agreeing with the authors point. From an evolutionary perspective, the fact that it's difficult to remember dreams and difficult to get lucid makes sense. Let's say you're a caveman. You have lucid dreams and you get used to the notion of frolicking around with a nice friendly T-Rex. During your wakeful hours, you might be inclined to do the same. What happens - he bites your head off and you don't get to spread your DNA. I would like to think we're sufficiently advanced from an evolutionary sense, to avoid this pitfall - certainly if you live in an industrialized country.

The only practical danger I can think of is being over enthusiatic about jumping off buildings. Start from the ground - that's my guidance.

As for the sleep conern, go to bed earlier. This will more than make up for any sleep interuptions - that should be an easy workaround.

As far as I see it, there is no reason to be afraid of lucid dreaming as long as you are able to distingush between dream and reality, and is of sound mental health otherwise. There has been a lot of scentific research on lucid dreaming, and there has never been shown any harmful effects of it for normal people as far as I can see (see Wikipedia on this).

Lucid dreaming also has a rich tradition, spanning for thousands of years in certain other cultures (I can't think of a concrete example right now, but I've heard of older cultures, including tribal cultures, where dreaming, also lucid dreaming, has played an important role).

DrTechnical mentioned an example of cavemen frolicking around with T-Rexs. First, this is not a problem as long as you can distingush between dreams and reality, and I don't think prehistorical people were worse off than us in this respect. Second, humans and dinosaurs have never lived at the same time. :p (I know, this was an unneccescarily point. But I just had to nitpick a little...)

Assuming that we become lucid occasionaly, without any practice whatsoever, we must assume that there arren't any barriers. I've become lucid during my young years plenty of times.

Also, think of the process. You are becomming lucid, which is, knowing that you're dreaming. When I dream, I'm always in control, though I may not be lucid.
The only difference between normal dreaming and lucid dreaming, is that we gain more control. The actual awareness is always there, it's just more apparent for some than others.

I hope my point was sufficiently clear. Evolution has impacted human development in the sense that "dangerous" characteristics get weeded out. So a characteristic like great dream recall or great ability to become lucid in ones dreams in principle - may have been eliminated from the gene pool as it impacted survival in a dangerous environment.

Comin full circle - most of us are not involved in many day to day situations where confusion between dream and wakeful states might lead to our demise. Hence LDing doesn't seem very dangerous in todays society.

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Originally Posted by tiddlywink101

Firstly when I was awaking at 5am each to record my dreams I noticed a lack of concentration that day at school, leaving me thinking that it was because I had interrupted some vital process of the sleeping mind (I am only 15 so my brain is still developing)

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It only makes sense that if you're missing out on sleep, your mind won't work as well. It's unlikely to be the interruption of sleep that's the problem, since most people wake up in the middle of the night occasionally, so I suspect the problem is that you're not getting enough sleep. This isn't a danger from lucidity itself, just your dream journal habits, and will likely go away if you go to sleep earlier or write in your dream journal later.

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Originally Posted by tiddlywink101

Secondly we have to train ourselves to LD thus breaking natural barriers in our mind that could be there to safeguard against dream lucidity, so surely it's not natural and may have harmful effects.

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I have two points against this. First, many people occasionally lucid dream without any effort or training, I did occasionally, and some people LD all the time without ever even having heard of lucid dreaming. If lucid dreaming was innately harmful, wouldn't these people have these mental barriers too?

Second, just because we have to train ourselves to do it, doesn't mean it's harmful. There are all sorts of things we have to train ourselves to do that we aren't naturally able to do that actually help the mind, like learning to play an instrument, read, use mental math, and many others. Who's to say that lucid dreaming isn't one of these? I don't see any reason at all to think the difficulty involved in lucid dreaming has to do with some sort of mental barrier, instead of simply being the normal difficulty involved in learning a difficult skill.

Well I believe that what DrTechnical is saying is true however i think that their are not really any dangers to lucid dreaming without actually causing the danger yourself, for example your having a lucid dream and you wish something evil into existence and you find it really scary and it starts re-occuring as nightmares, but that can be overcome if you start having nightmares, another is the effect it can have on your sleep patterns however really it is not lucid dreaming that is affecting your sleep patterns, it is you waking up early in the morning to try and induce a lucid dream. I personally cannot see any dangers that can accidently happen from lucid dreaming, all the bad things that come off lucid dreaming can only really be your fault or your descision but to be honest i can't find any problems with lucid dreaming, its a safe thing, your in total control of your environment. Any dangers within the lucid dream would be your responsibility unless soemthing came out of the blue, but still you could wish it out of existence. Don't be worried about lucid dreaming, just get into it and you'll see that it is a safe thing to do. Hope some of that helped.

There is nothing wrong, unnatuaral, or dangerous about Lucid Dreaming!
If you actualy believe this, then Lucid Dreaming is probably not for you.
But most likely, this belief would keep you from Lucid Dreaming in the first place. You should probably check out the information, on all of the good things that can come from Lucid Dreaming. And then decide if it's something
you want to get into.

Alright man, check it homes..
If LDs were un-natural then it wouldn't be such a regular occurence. Lucid Dreaming was been around as long as the first records of science and literature! now the only reason we have to take months or even years of our own time and individually have to learn how to Lucid Dream is beacuse society has forgotten about dreams ya know? see it would be completely absurd if we all individually had to learn to write when society teaches us all together in a classroom. I guess all i could tell you is that if "Evolutionarily" Lucid Dreaming was a danger then generation after generation it would slowly be erased from our natural abilities.:banana:

Lucid dreaming, as the others have said, is a natural phenomenon. Nothing to be worried about.

If you're worried about your sleep pattern, I suggest a consistent schedule of at least eight hours a night. If you have trouble getting back to bed after waking in the wee hours of the morn, try making your room darker, staying up at a shorter interval to write in your journal, and minimalizing movement.

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Originally Posted by DrTechnical

Let's say you're a caveman. You have lucid dreams and you get used to the notion of frolicking around with a nice friendly T-Rex. During your wakeful hours, you might be inclined to do the same. What happens - he bites your head off and you don't get to spread your DNA.

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Erm, excuse me. Cavemen=Holocene epoch, T-Rex=Cretatious. Only a few hundred million years apart. It really bugs me. xD

DrTechnical, your solid grasp of natural selection and your screen name on this forum suggest that you are well-versed in the principles of science. As stated by others, please don't confuse the Mesozoic and Cenozoic Eras. Paleolithic man didn't enter the picture until at least 60 million years after the extinction of Tyrannosaurus rex.:D

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Originally Posted by DrTechnical

From an evolutionary perspective, the fact that it's difficult to remember dreams and difficult to get lucid makes sense.

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It's not a fact that dreams are difficult to remember. When I was a little boy, I remembered around five dreams per night without any difficulty. Also, many people claim to lucid dream naturally. I myself had occasional LDs, generally induced by nightmares, when I was much younger. Also, Tibetan monks have been practicing "dream yoga" (a form of lucid dreaming induced by critical state testing) throughout the last millenium. That being said, dreams do seem to be stored in a fairly protected part of the mind.

I don't believe anyone has ever presented any evidence of lucid dreaming being physically or mentally harmful. However, I do see the possibility for lucid dreaming to increase one's risk of schizophrenia if he or she had incredibly vivid LDs almost every night. This is an interesting thread, and I wonder if scientific evidence will come out that suggests lucid dreaming to be potentially dangerous.

Boy you guys are sticklers for precise examples, I'll have to research dangerous animals that co-existed with cavemen next time around.
BTW, dreams most certainly are difficult to remember. Everyone of us (given a nice 8 hours of sleep) spends about 2 hours + in REM. Can any one of us claim to remember 2 hours of dream experience per night? If you claim yes, I'll bet you're confused by the disjoint nature of dream storylines, where an instantaneous jump from day to night makes you feel like 12 hours transpired. I feel I have decent dream recall. I typically recall about two pages of written notes and 2-3 dreams per evening. But that most certainly is NOT 2 - 2.5 hours of effective experience.

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Originally Posted by tiddlywink101

Secondly we have to train ourselves to LD thus breaking natural barriers in our mind that could be there to safeguard against dream lucidity, so surely it's not natural and may have harmful effects.

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Not true (in my opinion) since I naturally LD. I didn't know about all this training to LD and RC's and DC's etc etc until I found this site about 5 months ago.

I have been able to LD for as long as I can remember and I have turned out just fine :D lol.

I understand your concearns though, and like many others believe this is due to a lack of your understanding on the subject. I would suggest reading up a little more on it, reading journals and experiences and I'm sure all you will ever read are positive things said about lucid dreaming :)

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Lucid dreaming also has a rich tradition, spanning for thousands of years in certain other cultures (I can't think of a concrete example right now, but I've heard of older cultures, including tribal cultures, where dreaming, also lucid dreaming, has played an important role).

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Their is no recorded histories of other people lucid dreaming, only buddhist have explored this in the past. Their are some vague refrences in the bible apart from that nothing.

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If LDs were un-natural then it wouldn't be such a regular occurence. Lucid Dreaming was been around as long as the first records of science and literature!

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Well were is you're source.

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I guess all i could tell you is that if "Evolutionarily" Lucid Dreaming was a danger then generation after generation it would slowly be erased from our natural abilities.

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Recessive trait do survive look at all the cancers and genetic diseases that heavily damage a person.

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I feel I have decent dream recall. I typically recall about two pages of written notes and 2-3 dreams per evening. But that most certainly is NOT 2 - 2.5 hours of effective experience.

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We actually dream all night, however thats abit different. Memory is shifted and stored so you only have you're short term memory active or working memory. I remeber studies that wake people up during Non-REM and the person remebered the dream in it, I think Non-REM dreams are mean't to be less vivid.

The problem with lucid dreaming is proberly because this level of consciousness found in humans are higher then other animals. It would take time for humans to evolve into having more lucid dreams like how it took time for animals to evolve to have REM sleep. Evolution is not perfect. As far as lucid dreaming I think the Bottlenose whale has us beat. It has one hemisphere always conscious.

I heard our brains are getting smaller.

WendyLove raises an interesting scenario. One I claim to have no expertise in - so if someone here genuinely does please share.
The claim is that waking a dreamer out of NREM can lead to a scenario where that person remembers a dream. I certainly believe that for the REM scenario - but NMREM?
To believe that theory - you need to disprove counter arguements. Here's a counter agrument:
Let's say a person has a REM period and a number of superficial awakenings during that time. The memories of that dream are "imprinted" in the mind. Commonly, a person experiencing a superficial awakening might turn over, grunt or even have a brief conversation with their partner - but won't remember that event.
Now let's say time moves to a NREM cycle and you forceably awake the sleeper. Might the dream memories that person reports be a capture of a dream memory from the previous REM cycle?
That would be my intuitive explaination. I'm not sure how you prove or disprove it?

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Originally Posted by Marvo

Assuming that we become lucid occasionaly, without any practice whatsoever, we must assume that there arren't any barriers. I've become lucid during my young years plenty of times.

Also, think of the process. You are becomming lucid, which is, knowing that you're dreaming. When I dream, I'm always in control, though I may not be lucid.
The only difference between normal dreaming and lucid dreaming, is that we gain more control. The actual awareness is always there, it's just more apparent for some than others.

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Erm, do you mean that your SUBCONCIOUS has control when you aren't lucid? Because, i NEVER have control when i'm not lucid, it is just like watching a tv show.

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Originally Posted by Abra

Lucid dreaming, as the others have said, is a natural phenomenon. Nothing to be worried about.

If you're worried about your sleep pattern, I suggest a consistent schedule of at least eight hours a night. If you have trouble getting back to bed after waking in the wee hours of the morn, try making your room darker, staying up at a shorter interval to write in your journal, and minimalizing movement.


Erm, excuse me. Cavemen=Holocene epoch, T-Rex=Cretatious. Only a few hundred million years apart. It really bugs me. xD

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:hrm: XD The cretacious was 65Million years ago!:biggrin:

I'm always in control, when I dream. Conscious control. However, I'm rarely aware, that I'm dreaming.

I guess I could use this, to get more lucid-dreams, but I haven't really found a way.

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However, the sharp division between REM (‘dreaming’) sleep and non-REM (‘non-dreaming’) sleep began to fray when it was discovered that reports of complex mentation could, in fact, be elicited in as many as 50% of awakenings from non-REM sleep. This became apparent when Foulkes awakened subjects from non-REM sleep and asked them, ‘What was passing through your mind?’ rather than, ‘Have you been dreaming?’ (Foulkes, 1962). The resultant non-REM dream reports were more ‘thought-like’ (less vivid) than the REM dream reports but this distinction held only for the statistical average. The fact remained that at least 5-10% of non-REM dream reports were ‘indistinguishable by any criterion from those obtained from post-REM awakenings’ (Hobson, 1988, p143). These findings ‘do not support a dichotomic distinction between REM and NREM mentation, rather they suggest the hypothesis of the existence of continuous dream processing characterised by a variability within and between sleep stages’ (Cavallero et al, 1992, p563).

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http://www.psychoanalysis.org.uk/solms4.htm
If you didn't read all that it says we dream all night. Also the problem is solved by waking the person up during the first sleep stage after a normal day.

But are we not interupting any vital sleep processes? For example I have heard that people can become very irritable during the day if forcefully woken up during REM sleep.
Thanks for taking interest in my thread

I've noticed that since I started LDing I find it harder and harder to distinguish from dreams and reality. I have strong feelings of unreality when I'm awake, like I'm kind of disconnected from the world. This is why I've stopped I guess, it's quite scary...

Tiddlywink, no. Unless we're practicing lucid-dreaming to much, that we only get below 5 hours of sleep, we'll be fine.

There's no difference between dreaming and lucid-dreaming, except that we know we're dreaming. We must be aware when dreaming, otherwise, we wouldn't be able to remember our dreams. That's atleast what I think.

Meidi, reality-checks, reality-checks, reality-checks. That's why we made them. To define if we're dreaming or not.

Marvo, reality checks are meant to let you know if you are dreaming when you are dreaming. They are not meant to let you know if you are dreaming when you are awake. When you are awake, you should never have any question about it. The only reason to perform reality checks when you are awake is to form a habit that you will follow when dreaming. Meidi has indicated that he or she was developing a serious medical problem from lucid dreaming, and he or she definitely made the right decision to stop. So to address the question of the OP, schizophrenia seems to be the one realistic danger of lucid dreaming.

Umm.. ROTFLMAO! You CAN'T tell when you are dreaming *facepalms* that is the POINT of RC's. DUH!:p

Seismosaur, Meidi can't tell when (s)he is awake. Read my last post. If you have to resort to RCs to make sure that you are awake (when in fact you are), that is, if you have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality, lucid dreaming is certainly not for you and you should probably consider seeking medical help. This misconception that RCs are for times when you want to make sure you are awake is very dangerous.

Meidi, it's a good thing that you stopped lucid dreaming. Do you still get these symptoms often?

Yea for the first point, that obviouslt just means you are not getting enough sleep. You don't need to wake yourself up all throughout the night to record every little dream in order to have a lucid dream. You just need to recall at least one.

For the second point I think that it may be beneficial thinking about lucid dreaming and doing reality checks throughout the day. I teaches you to be mindful and live in the present. Every self-help I've ever read always mentioned the importance of mindfulness. When you are in the present you fully take in each moment. Even better when those things lead you to become aware in a dream and then you can further use the dream for self improvement like overcoming fears and raising your self esteem.

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Originally Posted by dsr

Seismosaur, Meidi can't tell when (s)he is awake. Read my last post. If you have to resort to RCs to make sure that you are awake (when in fact you are), that is, if you have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality, lucid dreaming is certainly not for you and you should probably consider seeking medical help. This misconception that RCs are for times when you want to make sure you are awake is very dangerous.

Meidi, it's a good thing that you stopped lucid dreaming. Do you still get these symptoms often?

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You're wrong. A reality-check, is an action entirely designed, so define if you're awake or not. If Meidi is unsure if he/she is dreaming or not, then just do a reality-checks. Reality-checks don't fail.

I agree, that Meidi has a problem regarding it though, but I wouldn't call it a medical problem. Just a lack of grip.

See it how you want but you can TELL when your not actually dreaming, an RC just gets you in the habit so you check in your dreams and become lucid.

Being unable to distinguish between wake and sleep states is actually very dangerous. And reality checks CAN fail!! The brain is not perfect! If someone is awake and believes they may be dreaming a reality check is not always going to work as discearnable proof that the person is awake. The brain can play tricks on us and it is especially likely that someone who is having difficulties distinguishing between reality and dream states may be having hallucinations- visual, or auditory, mild or severe. Hallucinations are not reserved for schizophrenics and are quite common. Infact hallucinations at one time were necessary for human survival and we hallucinated before having conscious thought. (am I losing anyone?)

I have often thought about the dangers of lucid dreaming and this is the one that always disturbs me.

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Being unable to distinguish between wake and sleep states is actually very dangerous.

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If you cannot tell when you are awake, then you aren't normal and need serious help - it's as simple as that.

Sure, you don't know when you are dreaming, but it doesn't work the other around.

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Originally Posted by tiddlywink101

See it how you want but you can TELL when your not actually dreaming, an RC just gets you in the habit so you check in your dreams and become lucid.

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That is exactly what i was saying :D

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Originally Posted by themindsi

Being unable to distinguish between wake and sleep states is actually very dangerous. And reality checks CAN fail!! The brain is not perfect! If someone is awake and believes they may be dreaming a reality check is not always going to work as discearnable proof that the person is awake. The brain can play tricks on us and it is especially likely that someone who is having difficulties distinguishing between reality and dream states may be having hallucinations- visual, or auditory, mild or severe. Hallucinations are not reserved for schizophrenics and are quite common. Infact hallucinations at one time were necessary for human survival and we hallucinated before having conscious thought. (am I losing anyone?)

I have often thought about the dangers of lucid dreaming and this is the one that always disturbs me.

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No, RCs NEVER fail, if you pinch your nose, and can't breath through it, yet still have doubt of reality, then push your finger through your palm, and LO, it doesn't work! Still having doubts, you watch to see if numbers or letters on things change, no? Well you aren't dreaming. Besides, when you are asleep, you CAN'T tell that ur dreaming!! That is the point of doing reality checks in reality! to set up a routine!

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Originally Posted by blade5x

If you cannot tell when you are awake, then you aren't normal and need serious help - it's as simple as that.

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Exactly. Meidi definitely did the right thing in stopping.

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Originally Posted by blade5x

Sure, you don't know when you are dreaming, but it doesn't work the other around.

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Exactly what I said. RCs let you know if you're dreaming when you are dreaming but when you are awake you should always know. If you need to do an RC to confirm that you are awake (when in fact you are), you are having serious problems differentiating between fantasy and reality and should seek medical help.

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Originally Posted by tiddlywink101

See it how you want but you can TELL when your not actually dreaming, an RC just gets you in the habit so you check in your dreams and become lucid.

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You are wrong once again. I know several people, including myself, that just had to do a reality-check, because we simply weren't sure if we were awake or not.

Once I was looking at a watch. It was 16:00, and suddenly, it just changed to 17:53. My sight just tricked me, but I had to do a reality-check, since I couldn't tell if I was dreaming or not.

A reality-check is a check, that is designed to check your reality.

I beg to differ (first time I've probably ever used this phrase).

I never use reality checks while awake. Looking a circular clocks for a brief second, I always see a different time because there are 3 hands and I can get them mixed up. I'll glance back and think "wtf?" but never have to pinch my nose to make sure I am not dreaming.

And in dreams... you already have to be slightly lucid to even have a shot at having the lucid. You don't just blindly reality check and have a lucid. You at some moment go "I think I am dreaming..." (here's the initial small amount of lucidity) - you'll think and feel that something is not right - though because you are not fully at waking consciousness, you will not realize immediately that you are dreaming. You'll either then pick up on this lost sense of reality or do a RC and realize you are dreaming. The excitement brings your lucidity up, but the amount of lucidity varies from here. You may only remain semi-lucid or you may have full blown lucidity, or you may lose it completely.

In my opinion, I would practice "brining your awareness up" at random moments (not sure how to do this yet exactly) that way when you do go lucid, you'll have full blown lucidity. I believe this can be very beneficial where as practicing RCing has never really been of interest to me (but then again I rely on WILDs and not DILDs)

Reality checks are not a fullproof method of finding whether you are in reality. We use them to make them into a habit so we can become lucid in our dreams. People should be able to tell when they are actually awake and dreaming. Reality checks are not used to proof this in real life. You should be able to distinguish the difference.

Exactly, you do not use a RC to make sure you are awake - you use it to see if you are dreaming... and there is a big difference between the two like I explained above (the process of becoming lucid ;))

I mean there are a few instances where something may happen which could really confuse a person, but if say on a regular basis you zone out, and something awkward happens, or something unexpected, you may actually question for a second reality, but if you actually have to do a RC to make sure, then something is wrong.

I find it pretty scary that the concept of a reality check as Truffles, blade5x, and I understand it is not universally accepted in this thread. I'll repeat for the last time, you should only use RCs while awake if you are trying to create a habit that will carry over to your dreams. RCs can be used to check your reality in a dream, but when you are awake, you should never have any doubt about it (excluding cases when one is under the influence of harmful substances). If you are unsure while you happen to be awake, you could be developing a serious psychological condition such as schizophrenia.

If you cannot always distinguish between fantasy and reality in real life, there is a chance that, at some point in time, you could behave like you would in an LD. There are virtually no consequences for harmful or illegal actions in an LD, but in real life there most certainly are. Unfortunately, some posters in this thread are sadly mistaken on this matter of reality, and I hope that there won't be any adverse consequences.

i didnt read any of the following replys but my answer is.

Get more sleep, i wake up naturally at 4:45 and go to bed at 9 (for school) and i feel great. When i used to get up at 6 and go to sleep at 11, i slept through like every class. One hour makes a huge difference.

Second, about the danger part.
Who cares? Do it anyway.

Seriousily, dont live in fear. If it looks fun, if it will enchance your life, do it.

That doesnt mean herion...that doesnt "enchance your life" It just makes you feel good for a moment.

I'm fifteen too, (white male if that matters)
First Point: Either your not getting enough sleep, doing a technique wrong, have ADD. I don't know there could be many reasons for why you can't pay attention. Try to be open minded ( No offense intened, just couldn't word it any other way) and figure out what it really is. I now that school's almost out for me and i could care less about school right now.

Second Point: This is the one that got me lost for words..... Lucid dreaming is natural for some people. I've had them my entire life. I can concentrate (i have a 4.0 GPA in school), I get sleep. And if anything it will probualy help your brain figure out stuff because it's not just giving you random information.

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Originally Posted by Seismosaur

No, RCs NEVER fail, if you pinch your nose, and can't breath through it, yet still have doubt of reality, then push your finger through your palm, and LO, it doesn't work! Still having doubts, you watch to see if numbers or letters on things change, no? Well you aren't dreaming. Besides, when you are asleep, you CAN'T tell that ur dreaming!! That is the point of doing reality checks in reality! to set up a routine!

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The Dream Views site itself describes the accurate way Reality Checks should be used, on it's main page under "Lucid Dream Induction Techniques", as dilligently performing reality checks throughout the day in the idea that the practice will manifest into your dreams in the hopes of realizing one is dreaming and inducing lucidity. Of course I am paraphrasing but you can read it here, http://http://dreamviews.com/induction.php, third paragraph from the bottom. Although setting up a routine IS the main purpose of Reality Checks, Reality checks should not be used to determine whether or not one is AWAKE but rather to determine whether one is sleeping, i.e. dreaming. Although the two statements are recipritive, one must not confuse them for being synonymous.

Furthermore, even if one was to use RC's to try and determine whether they were awake or not, it is highly likely results would be muddled since if one even had the NEED to try and determine if they were awake or not the person would be experiencing some type of mental distress. When the brain is under extreme states of mental durress normal functions which we take for granted can be hindered, such as the ability to accurately percieve what is there (numbers, letters, things). Being unable to distinguish between what is not there and what IS there, which we rely upon to even perform a reality check, means one must be undergoing some form of mild or severe hallucination, be it auditory or visual.

Feelings of disconnection from reality are infact symptoms of many very serious mental illnesses such as: postpartum disease, alzheimers disease, borderline personality disorder, anxiety disorder, cyclothymia (more commonly known as bi-polar disorder), and schizophrenia to name just a few.

If one is suffering from feelings of disconnection to reality and is unable to tell whether or not one is dreaming or awake the answer is clearly not to perform a reality check with a human mind --which is certainly fallible, even to someone who is not afflicted with any mental illness. The human brain, although a truely remarkable edifice, should not be given as much credit as you are alloting it. Infact the brain is usually undisciplined and unreliable, considerably less than perfect.

In conclusion, taking into account the previously given information, we must deduce that:

1.) NO, reality checks are not meant to determine whether or not one is AWAKE, but consequently to determine whether one is, or is not DREAMING.

2.) Someone who is having difficulty accurately distinguishing from an awake state and a dream state must seek the attention of a psychologist and if they cannot readily access a psychologist visit their regular doctor. Also, many local hospitals will readily assess the psychological well-fare of anyone experiencing mental durress.

Hopefully this will end the debate. Kudos to blade5x, dsr, and Truffles.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by themindsi

Kudos to Marvo, dsr, and Truffles.

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blade5x, dsr, and Truffles ;)

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Originally Posted by dsr

Thank you.


blade5x, dsr, and Truffles ;)

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Ooops! Thanks dsr! My careless mistake, I wholly agree in credit where credit is due, thanks for allerting me!

No problem. I'm just glad we're in agreement.

Thanks for writing that up themindsi. That should hopefully explain to everybody what we mean. Anyway, I think the main thing here is, if you can't distinguish reality from dream life, don't do a reality check. Don't surf around the dreamviews forum looking for an answer. Don't shake it off and say that it happens to everybody. See a doctor.

Not a problem! Hopefully this settles it. Disconnection from reality is very serious! I'm a psychology major who's done alot of research in abnormal psych and disconnection from reality is red flag territory! I thought it unethical to not add my two cents!

Haha, I completely understand.

Thanks for clearing all that out, themindsi. I see your point.

So final word on the subject then?

Lucid dreaming isn't dangerous. I'd say only a small percentage of people who try this get these effects.

But still, there is no "proper" scientific research into lucid dreaming so we can't realy make these statements

True but we can probably safely assume from the research and dreaming of members here that it is safe.

LaBerge has been doing it for most of his life, I guess, and he doesn't seem to have any problems. Neither does any of the longtime members on this forum.

It's safe, aslong as you keep it on a safe level. Making it unsafe, would be trying to get 12 hours of sleep, simply to get more lucid dreams, or simply just putting way too much time into it.

Yeah. And then there are those people who use LDing as a way to get out of their real life. LDing is fun as a hobby, but just don't take it too far. Don't ignore other things just so you can sleep or do something LD related.

Thankyou for the peace of mind, obviously lucid dreaming is only dangerous for mentally unstable dreamers

Yeah. There doesn't seem to be any real physical danger (other than the possible disruption of the sleep cycle). There do seem to be psychological dangers, though. Either your distinction between fantasy and reality blurs or you use lucid dreaming as a means to escape from real life. Lucid dreaming is not a good substitute for counseling if you can't find happiness in your life (although it's better than suicide).

[quote=dsr;428933]Yeah. There doesn't seem to be any real physical danger (other than the possible disruption of the sleep cycle). quote]


Exactly, is there some unconcious process you are interrupting?

Sleep lol. Waking up at 4 AM every morning isn't exactly healthy for you, but I imagine if you do it long enough then you will get used to it and it will become a part of your routine.

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Originally Posted by tiddlywink101

I have recently been thinking that perhaps Lucid Dreaming is not that good for our us and have put it on hold until somebody can shed some light upon my concerns.
Firstly when I was awaking at 5am each to record my dreams I noticed a lack of concentration that day at school, leaving me thinking that it was because I had interrupted some vital process of the sleeping mind (I am only 15 so my brain is still developing)
Secondly we have to train ourselves to LD thus breaking natural barriers in our mind that could be there to safeguard against dream lucidity, so surely it's not natural and may have harmful effects.
Sorry if i'm talking rubbish here but if anyone understands me please share your thoughts. Also if your just starting out don't let this put you off trying to learn, as Lucid Dreaming is a very rewarding experience and PROBABLY not dangerous.
Thanks

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About the second point: Lucid dreaming is difficult to achieve "naturaly" ie. without any practice. But so is hunting, first aid treatment, reading and writing, driving, and a million other things that you can only achive effectivly if you learn it. Evolution ( or God ) did not give us all the possible abilities, but it gave us the ability learn the other abilities.

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Originally Posted by tiddlywink101

But still, there is no "proper" scientific research into lucid dreaming so we can't realy make these statements

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Well I've been doing it for a year and I haven't had any reality lapses yet so don't worry :D

And there are others who have been doing it for much longer.

Exactly so we agree interupting sleep so early is not good for you, however we wake up around 4-5 times on an average night anyway, but forget it happened according to research

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Originally Posted by tiddlywink101

Thankyou for the peace of mind, obviously lucid dreaming is only dangerous for mentally unstable dreamers

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That's an ironic way of putting it! In a sense, you could say dreamng is a form of psychosis (well, 'normal' dreaming anyway.) It's an altered state where we lose the ability to question things or think critically, or we accept as real things we'd otherwise absolutely know were absurd, etc etc .. and all because our neurochemistry goes completely :banana::bowdown::eek: when we fall asleep.

You could say, lucid dreaming is a way of stabilising ourselves, or at least of gaining some control over the psychotic state we always fall into, while we're asleep....? ;)

Lucid dreaming is marvelous. I have had so many great learning experiences with practicing LDs.
We must sleep for a reason. The most Obvious to be resting the body and the MIND.
If our conscious mind is activated during a time where it would otherwise be in its most deepest of sleep, I have to question if there could be possible deprivation.
Just recently I had a lucid dream that I had asked myself (or my subconscious) during the lucid dream if this is a natural act. The result was.. I yawned. But you have to remember I half believed this prior to the dream. Hence one of the reasons I asked the question.
SO was the answer manipulated by my Precognitive thought processes or was my subconscious giving me a true and valid sign?

On most accounts, many people who claim to lucid dream almost all the time say they do not experience sleep deprivation.
Yet another variable is that we all require different amounts of sleep.

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Originally Posted by tiddlywink101

Secondly we have to train ourselves to LD thus breaking natural barriers in our mind that could be there to safeguard against dream lucidity, so surely it's not natural and may have harmful effects.

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I'm not sure if anyone has made this point (as I don't have time to read all of the pages right now), so I'm sorry if they have. Most things in life that are worth while you have to train to be able to do. You can't just go up to a guitar and play challenging songs, you must practice, even if you can play the piano (guitar being lucid dreams and piano being regular). When you were young, you had to learn to walk, you even had to learn to talk. People who do things out of the norm are what make society what it is today. cavemen making fire, Thomas Edison and the light bulb. Don't forget that some people don't even need to train to have LD's, they have had them as long as they can remember.

I'd say at this point, without further scientific research and studies done we cannot pronounce that lucid dreaming is entirely safe.

In Steven LaBerge's lucid dreaming book he also talks about the dangers of LD for people who try to escape everyday life. (I'm quite sure it was his book, correct me if I'm wrong Marvo, you may have read it since you mentioned Steven earlier)

In my humble opinion I do think there could be negative effects to lucid dreaming if one was to..."stumble too far in".

Hey all, thanks for the concern. It's not that I doubt that I'm awake; I know that I'm awake, but I feel really disconnected. Like I'm looking at everything from far away. But yes, I feel that stopping my LDing was probably for the best.

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In Steven LaBerge's lucid dreaming book he also talks about the dangers of LD for people who try to escape everyday life. (I'm quite sure it was his book, correct me if I'm wrong Marvo, you may have read it since you mentioned Steven earlier)

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I'm sure most people don't abuse lucid dreaming in this way, and it's spelled "stephen" by the way (sorry to nitpick)

lol, i forgot. no big deal, i nitpick all the time.

So what were we talking about again?

lol

I dont think that there are any dangers involved if Lucid Dreaming is to be achieved by people with common sense.

It's okay to go against our Evolutionary Design. Our behavior has its roots in basic instincts which often no longer have a context in modern living. Talking about this starts to get to the very nature of our Being.

For example, we are evolutionarily designed to gossip about all the behavior of people in our community(especially sexual/mating practices) as a way of protecting ourselves from dangerous individuals and knowing about other's behavior patterns. However, gossip plays a very harmful role in many situations today. This is a minor example. A larger one might be that our violent instincts can drive us to war which no longer aids in our survival (generally).

Although my examples don't correspond perfectly to your question, I think its perfectly ok to override some of our genetic predispositions when possible.

Another note, when I successfully have LD's I find that my need for sleep lessens. There is a man named Michael Winn that claims he sleeps no more than 3 hours per night because he has developed such great control over his energy through Lding and other Taoist means. Than again he may just be a freak...

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Another note, when I successfully have LD's I find that my need for sleep lessens. There is a man named Michael Winn that claims he sleeps no more than 3 hours per night because he has developed such great control over his energy through Lding and other Taoist means. Than again he may just be a freak...
__________________

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He would surly have to powernap around the day for this to be healthy

If only we could permanently overide war TalkingHead!
And Yoko Ono only slept a max of 3 hours a day, but we all know that bitch is crazy!

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Originally Posted by themindsi

If only we could permanently overide war TalkingHead!
And Yoko Ono only slept a max of 3 hours a day, but we all know that bitch is crazy!

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If everyone will be into lucid dreaming, there will be world peace, because how can one have a decent WILD with bombs blowing up everywhere?

Lol, good point Dodobird!!

I've been trying to ld for about a year now, and the only time I doubt whether I'm dreaming or not is when I remember something random and wonder when it happened. it's a little annoying but it's no different than all the other random ways people get memories. (I'm not a great lder so it's usually just normal dreams I get confused with).

*edit* just looked at the date on thread, this is a major bump.

... thread necromancy, eeeeek. :cheeky:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tiddlywink101

I have recently been thinking that perhaps Lucid Dreaming is not that good for our us and have put it on hold until somebody can shed some light upon my concerns.
Firstly when I was awaking at 5am each to record my dreams I noticed a lack of concentration that day at school, leaving me thinking that it was because I had interrupted some vital process of the sleeping mind (I am only 15 so my brain is still developing)
Secondly we have to train ourselves to LD thus breaking natural barriers in our mind that could be there to safeguard against dream lucidity, so surely it's not natural and may have harmful effects.
Sorry if i'm talking rubbish here but if anyone understands me please share your thoughts. Also if your just starting out don't let this put you off trying to learn, as Lucid Dreaming is a very rewarding experience and PROBABLY not dangerous.
Thanks

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sorry but no you do not have to teach yourself to ld... some people naturally learn to do it ...i did when i was a child from nightmare's..and i also without realising would increase clarity..i would shout alot in dreams :D to see if people in my house would hear me..kinda lame to think every1 has to learn when for some it comes natural.... well im 22 now and am having to re-train i still hav ld's just not as often ...i guess due to my 8year cannabis habit :D

if u wana have good ld's then dont even think of starting smoking weed ..i mean i did still hav them but seriusly it makes em a whole lot harder..and the past week i havent smoked any i have had so much more dream recall

Golly, this thread is old...:P

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Originally Posted by Mario92

Golly, this thread is old...:P

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That it is Mario, that it is, but it still brings up an...interesting point. Though I don't think that LDing is unsafe, he brings up an interesting thought.

Yay! Your old avatar is back. Are you gonna keep switching your old and new avatars around or something?

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Originally Posted by lucidreamsavy

That it is Mario, that it is, but it still brings up an...interesting point. Though I don't think that LDing is unsafe, he brings up an interesting thought.

Yay! Your old avatar is back. Are you gonna keep switching your old and new avatars around or something?

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I kinda didn't like the last one because it looked like nothing was there half the time. This one is better.