ascension?

I read something in a lucid dreaming book that really struck a chord:

"... But in lucid dreaming [compared to normal dreaming], you begin to cross an amazing and evolutionary threshold, on the way to becoming a new type of human being. You are developing a fresh self-awareness; you are learning to extend that relationship with life and enter new possibilites and a new world"

Is what we're doing here a new evolutionary step to a superior state of being? While my lucid experience hasn't been that long (I started about 2 months ago and had LDs all the time for a while immediatly upon starting, but have had a dry spell lately partly due to lack of trying or thinking about it), is there really more to what we're becoming here than just having fun in fantasyland?

Forgive the dragonball analogy, but this is similar to goku and vegeta's transformation to super saiyan 4. They first became the golden monkey form (aka sleeping) but in that form they had no conciousness and just stomped on everything. Then when they became aware and regained conciousness in that state, they transformed into their ultimate forms.

Now I'm not saying we're going to be able to fly and shoot energy beams and grow fur but, I just had this thought that there is something a lot deeper to becoming conciously aware in our dreams.

I don't thinks it's that big a deal. It's just fun. Besides I'm already superior. :D I had bunches of lucid dreams and non of them have been extremely eye-opening.

I dont know a thing about dragonball but I think your right, I belive lucid dreaming can teach you alot about yourself and open you up to higher levels of consciousness if you want them too.

Combining the conscious minde and the subconscious mind directly as lucid dreaming does poses endless possibilities in my mind............

Hmm, i think that ascension is a bit out of the question, you could achieve a higher level of conscioussness, you ever had those moments where you feel asthough you are above everything, like in a lucid dream, i think being able to fully use that higher level of conscioussness in our waking lives would be a next step, we only have slight hints of it every so often and when we get these quick outbursts for like a couple of seconds it quickly fades, i do not know what this higher level could help us achieve, but as far as evolution goes on this topic i think its possible but until there is evidence to prove it i will remain skeptical. I'm not entirely sure tbh

Yes I know what you mean by those few brief moments of feeling above this world. I get taht sometimes during climatic parts of an epic movie, like 300. I've gotten it while listening to meditation tracks when I'm totally relaxed and aware, I've gotten it when I bust a plateau in the gym and sometimes it happens randomly, but it never lasts. I'm reading an e-book called "The Power of Now", in which the author claims he's achieved a constant state of this higher level of being. I'm wondering if lucid dreaming can help in that, my bet is it can, but first I gotta break my dry spell =S

a more clear explanation of what i'm thinking here is...

subconcoius VS concious mind. When we LD we have our concious and subconcious minds join forces; that is, we are concoiusly aware and able to direct our actions, yet our entire environment and everything in it is a product of the subconcious mind. How deep can this link go? If we had 100% concious control of what is normally unconcious, then we would be able to at any moment stop our hearts and insta-kill ourselves, or change the natural way that cells proliferate in our body (for example, to grow muscle more efficiently or burn fat more efficiently, or to combat disease), or at any moment feel any sensation that our senses know how to feel (this can be done in LDs with enough skill)

I know some of my examples are extreme and far fetched but I think they illustrate my point well. Maybe something simpler like being able to completely override irrational emotions (such as anxiety over something that has no real physical danger) first.

I really believe that the skills and benefits of lucid dreaming reach far deeper then we realize. Just how that may be employed in our lives is somewhat unclear but there are some known practical applications, such as building confidence, self-understanding, etc...

In some ways, I believe that being an LDer can make you more of a person than people who don't or who are unaware of LDing. You mind is what you are. The better able you are to control your mind, the more capable you are to handle the things life throws at you.

LDing is like any other skill in that wise and creative application can yield results previously unimaginable.

Lucid Dreaming is much more than just something fun to do!! I believe lucid dreaming is a tool that we have to learn how to use. The idea that lucid dreaming is going to propel humans into a new level of consciousness has not been absent from my mind. I've thought about that and I believe it's true. I also believe we stand to learn alot from entheogens which also change our level of awareness of the world around us. I've been reading a book by Dr. Fred Alan Wolfe which provides a detailed account of marriage between Dreaming and Quantum Physics. He actually suggests that the entire universe is dreaming and that everything around us is created through dream. It's verrry interesting and I know it sounds completely wild, but then again so is quantum mechanics! If you don't know anything about it I would suggest reading up on it. It can be very difficult to understand so I suggest starting by watching "What the Bleep Do We Know?" which is widely available on DVD and can also be downloaded fairly easily through torrent files.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by themindsi

He actually suggests that the entire universe is dreaming and that everything around us is created through dream.

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I've entertained that notion too. But, it only serves as a philosophical argument as a way to conceive perception of reality. It's invalid outside of that realm, as it completely ignores the real, physical world that is undeniably there. Or is it...? :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oneironaught

I've entertained that notion too. But, it only serves as a philosophical argument as a way to conceive perception of reality. It's invalid outside of that realm, as it completely ignores the real, physical world that is undeniably there. Or is it...? :D

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It's not there!! That's the whole thing. I believe that the "Real reality" looks nothing like this, if it even looks anything like anything at all! Read up on quantum physics it will give you a good idea of how the world realllly works!

Saiyan hood is a breeze...those that haven't tried to do it doesn't know what they're missing out on!
For the last 4/5 years I've been working on that. That made Lucid Dreaming alot easier for me.

Well as far as using LDing for higher awareness, the Tibetans have been doing it for ages now. According to them, when you die you go into a state known as the bardo, which is a limbo between your last and next life. In this state you will eventually be assaulted by nightmarish forces that are an accumulation of your past karma. Most people generally freak out and jump between the two nearest mating humans (or cockroaches if your karma is especially bad), but if you are able to recognize it as a product as your own mind you can overcome it and move on to nirvana.

So they use LDing as preparation for this. The dreaming state is said to mimic the bardo, so if when you are in dream you can become aware that it is just an extension if your mind, that is excellent preparation for what you will experience after death.

Yep, and soon, we'll go OVER 9000!!!!!!!

Ooooh yeah I love that feeling, had it a couple times in the first week or 2 of therapy on ritalin, some other random times, but now that I've started meditating more and discovered the Gateway Experience, I'm able to go into it pretty easily, not always, but most of the time after I've hit a deep meditation. Believe it or not, I talked to something that I think was my subconscious, I got it to let me get extremely drowsy and relaxed, and it happened several times and I was also able to control the strength of the relaxation etc. But yeah, if we were able to sustain this state forever, and find a constant synchronisation of the conscious and subconscious mind, the possibilities would be almost endless. Funny that I stumbled onto this thread after thinking the exact same things a couple days ago

I'm so annoyed you used a Dragonball example. So annoyed.