LD or AP? You decide.

So I am asleep and dreaming,I'll start there. In this dream I was walking through my neighborhood when I realize that it is a dream and become lucid. I decide I would love to shape shift into a bird with ease I am now in flight.
I fly into town to a convenience store that a lot of my friends are hangin out at(small town). I decide to land near them and listen in. now this is a typical Lucid dream right?
Until the next day when I speak to these friends and find out they were hanging out at the store the previous night and when I told them what I heard them talking about they confirmed that what I heard was real! This has only happened once so far, anyone got any input?

Occam's Razor:

They could be pulling your leg.

Not the kind of friends to do that + they were as creeped out as I was.

Sounds like an etheric or real-time astral projection experience to me. Did everything in your neighborhood seem accurate? Describe the scenery as detailed as you can. Either way I think this was an astral projection of some type.

=( If I were to decide I would tell you it was a lucid dream. There are these things called coincedences...

I mean...I could go as far as to stretch reality to the point that maybe you were telepathically linked to one of your friends...and when you were asleep you used their mind to recreate an environment for you.

But really how are we supposed to make a judgement call before we hear what they were talking about? Was it something that they would normaly talk about? Was it something you should have known they would talk about because recent events would have led you to believe it?

AP is really really really far fetched...it assumes that you experience things out of your body, which is impossible. Your brain is what you are...we know this because if you F with your brain, you can lose your memory, thus everything you remember occurs in the brain. AP is impossible, because in order to remember ANYTHING, anything at all, it has to occur inside of the brain.

It's impossible as far as you or any other skeptic knows. I won't hijack the thread, but I have had several OBEs in which I intended to obtain information that I could not possibly know otherwise, come back to my body and accurately describe it, and I did. That's "scientifically" impossible too. Explain it. Of course the only explanation is that I'm "making it up" isn't it. Guaranteed that's the next thing someone says.

But Sandform does have a point on one thing. Your friends could have been talking about anything. There's quite a possibility that this was coincidence. We need more details as to what happened, what it looked like, etc.

Okay so I'll try to answer everyone at the same time, First more info. This is where it gets really wierd, one of the friends is talking about this dream he had where one of his friends has shape shifted into a bird and... Just kidding!
Okay seriously, one of my friends mom had just become seriously ill and the family was just finding out about it he was pretty worried. So maybe I could have had a connection to him he is a really good friend. But the dream was so detailed and everything did look to be in place as far as reality was concerned so I can't put my finger on exactly what happenned if anything. It could have been just a really cool coincidental LD but it seemed from every angle very real to me. By the way shape shifting is super cool I'll be doing that a lot more often. Thanks for the responses I really hoped for some different points of view.

W-o-w

I don't mean to mess this up or anything but maybe its possible that you dreamt about them talking about dreaming in general and when they told you that when you saw them you twisted the dream to fit the scenario they described, things can happen by chance, some people twist the story to make it look like something other that a coincidene. Just my input.

You probably just have a very good understanding of you friends, so you knew they would be hangin out there. do they hang out there often? and you probably knew what they were going to say because you know them well. i can always predict what my friends are going to say when in person. and the topic that was being discussed in the store sounds like one that would be obviously talked about. i dont believe in ap bullshit, it was a coincedence.

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Originally Posted by Sandform

=( If I were to decide I would tell you it was a lucid dream. There are these things called coincedences...

I mean...I could go as far as to stretch reality to the point that maybe you were telepathically linked to one of your friends...and when you were asleep you used their mind to recreate an environment for you.

But really how are we supposed to make a judgement call before we hear what they were talking about? Was it something that they would normaly talk about? Was it something you should have known they would talk about because recent events would have led you to believe it?

AP is really really really far fetched...it assumes that you experience things out of your body, which is impossible. Your brain is what you are...we know this because if you F with your brain, you can lose your memory, thus everything you remember occurs in the brain. AP is impossible, because in order to remember ANYTHING, anything at all, it has to occur inside of the brain.

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Well i suppose your saying this is impossible from a scientific stand point? People have had OBE's and obtained information that is very real and yes it could be coincidence but maybe its something more, so for you to say that its impossible really isnt very open minded, but to each his own! I have never had an OBE but im open to the possibility i wont say its impossible because science says so, so i dont know if what you had was real or not but either way it was a neat experiance i bet!

Science doesn't say its impossible. Science doesn't say anything about it because at the moment there is no evidence to support it. Thats all science says.

Good point thank you for the correction!

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Originally Posted by The Question

Well i suppose your saying this is impossible from a scientific stand point? People have had OBE's and obtained information that is very real and yes it could be coincidence but maybe its something more, so for you to say that its impossible really isn't very open minded, but to each his own! I have never had an OBE but I'm open to the possibility i wont say its impossible because science says so, so i don't know if what you had was real or not but either way it was a neat experience i bet!

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First off, open minded is a foolish word to use. Open minded is a word best suited for social affairs, not facts of life. All I said was that it is impossible for anything to occur outside of the brain. That is most definitely true, and if you disagree, well I'm afraid your wrong. Sorry. Now onto the subject of AP. It isn't close minded not to believe things that are impossible. Science actual does say that the theory of AP is impossible...The way that people would have you believe it at least.
Nothing can occur outside of your brain, an AP is literally leaving your body, and moving in a different dimension. The reason AP is impossible in that manor is because you would not remember it...You wouldn't even have a faint detail of what had occurred.
It isn't that science doesn't say its impossible, science can't say anything, its that science hasn't proved it true. People always say "science doesn't say such and such is impossible because science can't prove it." Well, that is a very poor argument. Science hasn't proven it untrue so it must therefor be true. Yeah, you can live you life believing that if you want to.
Which is a more valid conclusion? I have super powers! or, I am insane.
I will agree, science most definitely has not proven it to be true. =)

And thank you for turning an off the side remark about something he asked peoples opinions on into something I have to argue with you about. I merely stated an opinion and backed it up with facts. However, you stated an opinion and backed it with more opinions.

Btw, AP is not the same as OBE, and an OBE doesn't necessarily mean OBE, ever thought that maybe it is just knowledge gained IN THE BRAIN? You just wanted to start an argument about something frivolous

Actually Sandform, I don't believe in AP or OoBE's just so you know. There are scientific theories on OoBEs and AP, though at the moment thats all there are, theories. There is a lot around the subject, and some is plausible. Its not totally unbelievable. While I don't believe in it, I take the time to do my research.

PS: You haven't really posted any 'facts' yourself Sandman.

Be aware, I'm not on any "side" here. I don't believe in AP, but you are simply being arrogant and closed minded. There are many scientific explanation theories on the subject should you care to look into rather than just saying "Its not possible."

Fact.

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Originally Posted by Sandform

Your brain is what you are...we know this because if you F with your brain, you can lose your memory, thus everything you remember occurs in the brain.

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I didn't say that the experience was impossible, I said peoples interpretations of what they are experiencing is most definitely wrong.

I don't believe in it, but if I were going to go into any leap at all, I would say that any and all versions of AP, OBE, or whatever else, is a version of "remote viewing." Seeing something without being there, while not actually being there.

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Originally Posted by Sandform

First off, open minded is a foolish word to use. Open minded is a word best suited for social affairs, not facts of life. All I said was that it is impossible for anything to occur outside of the brain. That is most definitely true, and if you disagree, well I'm afraid your wrong. Sorry. Now onto the subject of AP. It isn't close minded not to believe things that are impossible. Science actual does say that the theory of AP is impossible...The way that people would have you believe it at least.
Nothing can occur outside of your brain, an AP is literally leaving your body, and moving in a different dimension. The reason AP is impossible in that manor is because you would not remember it...You wouldn't even have a faint detail of what had occurred.
It isn't that science doesn't say its impossible, science can't say anything, its that science hasn't proved it true. People always say "science doesn't say such and such is impossible because science can't prove it." Well, that is a very poor argument. Science hasn't proven it untrue so it must therefor be true. Yeah, you can live you life believing that if you want to.
Which is a more valid conclusion? I have super powers! or, I am insane.
I will agree, science most definitely has not proven it to be true. =)

And thank you for turning an off the side remark about something he asked peoples opinions on into something I have to argue with you about. I merely stated an opinion and backed it up with facts. However, you stated an opinion and backed it with more opinions.

Btw, AP is not the same as OBE, and an OBE doesn't necessarily mean OBE, ever thought that maybe it is just knowledge gained IN THE BRAIN? You just wanted to start an argument about something frivolous

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I wasnt really trying to argue im no expert thats for shure, you made some good points thanks for your input!

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Originally Posted by The Question

I wasnt really trying to argue im no expert thats for shure, you made some good points thanks for your input!

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lol

Wow, I think people have become smarter since I left, but also more arrogant.

Robslam, did you know about your friend's mum being sick? If so it is likely this was on your mind. Everyone else's points are valid except for the scientific theories about AP. Theories are idea with a few points to back them up, but not enough to make it solid; people mistake a theory as being merely an idea.

OBE's have theories though; including things like they are just Sleep Paralysis, coincidence, all the way to witches controlling your mind. Although the last one's evidence remains true only in it's own ambit. ;)

Tommo

No I did not know. It was the day my friend himself found out. I had never(and probably still have never) projected before so it stands to reason that it was just a really cool LD. It is not really explainable or something easily proven, so to the skeptics I have to concede the point. But, I have experienced things in my waking life that would give any skeptic a field day. And no matter what argument I would here for those situations, would never be turned or convinced that what I saw and experienced where anything short of what I percieved them to be. Skeptisism is a sharpenning stone to fine blade of the truth.
The dream world is so different so open hard to tell where a boundry should be sometimes. So it makes sense to share these things to guage where those boundries may be.

Mmmm, that is a little strange then....
I'm up for the possibility of OBE's. AP sounds to far fetched for me though.
I believe I've had an OBE before though. Not sure if it was though. However, I also think OBE's can be explained scientifically, it's just that no one except the person knows all the circumstances, and often the person who experienced it doesn't have the advantage of an outside view to analyse it properly.

Tommo