****************** ALL MEMBERS READ THIS ******************

Re: SALVAGING OUR REPUTATION

Another lucid dreaming forum, that shall remain nameless, seems to be disseminating the notion that we are an unfriendly forum. Notwithstanding any merit that that opinion may or may not have, I think this is something we should be heedful of and strive to avoid. While I find myself rather disappointed in regards to how some of their members conduct themselves--particularly an exuding (and unprovoked) insolence coupled with stark disdain for our forum--I feel we should take steps to rectify the situation.

So what can we do? Well, I ask that all members try to generally be friendlier to their fellow forum members here. Certainly the number one priority has always been to present a warm front to all new users...perhaps we should step this up so everyone feels completely welcome here. I know many of you openly prefer a smaller community; gradual evolution of the board dictates, however, that the board will inevitably continue to grow. The 'Community' forum was introduced to provide the best of both worlds (those of you who cannot access that forum simply have not been members long enough). There's no reason why additional community forums cannot be created, perhaps providing a smaller community atmosphere for different periods of membership here (perhaps without overlap with other community forums, so that the board doesn't become completely befuddled).

Also, I will be enlisting the help of a couple more moderators; not so much to introduce a "zero tolerance" policy regarding conduct--as that would essentially completely contravene what I'm trying to do here--but rather to help spearhead this new mandate (i.e. to be openly exuberant and warm). We are not accepting nominations this time; I already have in mind the two or three people I will be inviting to join our staff.

So again, please keep this in mind whenever posting on the forum...particularly when replying to topics started by new users.


Thanks.

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Originally posted by icedawg
Re: *SALVAGING OUR REPUTATION

Another lucid dreaming forum, that shall remain nameless, seems to be disseminating the notion that we are an unfriendly forum. *Notwithstanding any merit that that opinion may or may not have, I think this is something we should be heedful of and strive to avoid.

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I think one of the most important causes to this, was that padfoot (a young boy who was here) felt that almost all replies to him was bad.
As supposed, padfoot is propably very young, hence he could be comprehended as a immature person.

Personally, I think padfoot didn't mean to be annoying in any way.
Very young people have not learned how to behave sofisticated, and allways be on topic.
IMO; this is something who takes time to learn, and them who are very young, simply have not learned it.

I have seen this unpopular boy on other forums after his account was inactivated, and I hope nobody will offend him again, because he is propably very young, and don't know how to act sofisticated.
It is important to remember that a person can be friendly, even if he is annoying.
Also, young people seems to be less tolerate to bad comments.

I hope nobody will feel unwanted on DV again, and that DV not will be looked on as a unfriendly forum again.

OK, Seeker deleted my post, it was "inflamitory". Well, I suppose this time I'll just say I hope we manage to get the reputation we deserve, and that's a good one.

Oh and by the way, we have enough asterisks in post titles to be getting along with.

ok you need to understand... we pandered to padfoot. it's gone now but when the kid started posting in the TTT technique thread we were accommodating to an extent... but when the kid started flaming on members who were trying to help and then mods, while taking the thread completely off topic (it was an established and helpful thread), as well as posting about 40 times within 5 pages... opinions were formed concerning him. he took it too far in my opinion.

i for one will be more light hearted... for the little bit of time i have left. if that means keeping my opinions to myself concerning someone's claims then fine, i can do that. but please don't expect me to just passively agree... i'd sooner not participate in a conversation than suppress my opinions to keep from upsetting people.

we're the janitors of the forums so please don't feel intimidated... we're all open minded people and we can accept criticism. negative or positive... just please tell us what bothers you so we can amend the situation. the feedback forum would be a good place to be heard.

-jake

*edit* posts missing! i'll survive *edit*

I would like to take this opportunity to invite each of you to talk honestly with the moderators or admins.

Please keep it in a PM or offline.

Share with them:

Things you think they are doing well
Things that you think they can do better
Any praises you have for them
Any criticisms

Please make this a positive experience for both of you. The purpose of this is to make things better, not to vent at us.

Again, please do not post this on DV. This should remain a private conversation between you and the mo/admin.

Let's make this a growth opportunity!

My opinion, even with some of the recent strife, we still have the best darn LD forum on the web

oh boy! hate mail! :-P

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Originally posted by adidas
ok you need to understand...

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I understand it was a reason for the bad replies to padfoot, but I also think that rumors about bad replies can set a forum in a unfriendly light, because people who only hear rumors usually don't hear the whole truth.

So I think several people have heard that padfoot was unpopular, but not the reasons why.

hrm. based on what i've heard and read this wasn't an isolated issue (in regards to padfoot). please bear in mind that i was absent during the whole padfoot fiasco, and don't know what really happened at all. personally, i feel whatever he did is completely irrelevant; apparently he's only 9 years old, thus it would be quite irresponsible of us to allow him to continue to use our forum: some of the topics discussed here encompass adult-themes, and quite honestly i don't think a 9 year old needs to be exposed to them. the age restriction is not simply to alleviate us from the burden of the more immature; it's for their best interests as well. we could certainly consider accommodating the younger and providing them their own forum in which they could dwell (while denying access to the remainder of the board). Regardless, let's please not discuss that incident anymore, and instead focus on my request.

also, i agree with seeker's request that users please discuss with us (via email or PM) their comments and feelings (either positive or negative). actually i welcome very negative comments.

Fault of: (can't remember name)

who posted DreamViews at ld4all with things like "they seem a bit critical".

Anyway, it'd be a good idea for icedawg to go right over and put them right. Now.

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Originally posted by Techboy
Anyway, it'd be a good idea for icedawg to go right over and put them right. Now.

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Naw, Icedawg has nothing to gain by that. If we are perceived as being unfriendly, it is up to us to correct this impression. The best way to set it right is for us to be aware and work toward making things better.

Ok, Well, I say delete all of these "unfriendly" posts. All of the "we hate padfoot" and the "post whore" thread. Gone. Forgot about. What about that?

I say we apologize other than delete threads, at least that would be the "right" thing to do.

Although, it does seem like a inevitable cycle. We are slightly more popular than the one forum I think you are talking about, and if they dislike dreamviews, and just go to the next forum down the line. And of course they are going to tell them about their previous experience with forums. So the real challenge is keeping as many users as we can here. Although we can't hold on to everyone (*cough*assholes*cough*), we should try anyways. A reputation is an important thing.

NB: This is just my opinon.

When Techboy said "there's a thread you should read Kaniaz, it's about the forum being unfriendly", I said: "Unfriendly? UNFRIENDLY? We're not unfriendly!". And that's just what I think - I don't think we're being unfriendly at all. In my opinon, everyone who is here are the most friendliest people I've ever met.

But since concern has been voiced over it, and i'd hate to see this forum being classed as "unfriendly" and have it's reputation demolished, I will make it my upmost priority to, well, be more friendly. (That sentence was rubbish). :P

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Originally posted by Kaniaz
When Techboy said \"there's a thread you should read Kaniaz, it's about the forum being unfriendly\", I said: \"Unfriendly? UNFRIENDLY? We're not unfriendly!\"

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Or words to that effect....

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Originally posted by Kaniaz
and i'd hate to see this forum being classed as \"unfriendly\"

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I must say I wholeheartedly agree with that comment

I agree with Kaniaz, I don't believe we are being unfriendly at all. I do however admit that at times I am a bit jaded, and instead of giving the newbs the warm welcome I generally do, I just tell them to check out the tutorials, site, etc. or something else that might not be categorized as a real friendly and warm behavior. I will try to keep this to a minimum. Sometimes we are not the friendliest bunch, but that is generally only when we feel one of our own has been insulted or such. That is when everyone gangs up on a certain individual.

If people don't mind(otherwise please edit this or ask me to do so myself) I will take the "Postwhore" thread by evanescent as an example. People all ganged up on him to a certain extent because we are protecting our board from spam. Because we want people to earn their rank(not only in how much they have learned, but how much we have learned from and about them). Topics like this tend to get us all riled up and participate in things that might be categorized as "unfriendly" behavior, such as critizism.

Overall I think we are a very friendly board, despite what they say. Otherwise, I would have never stayed here and be as active as I have been and presently am. This board is like a home to me, and its members are great friends.

I will do what I can to help improve this place, and make it an even better place. I guess we should all try and embrace the fact that we are growing(as it is inevitable) and just let it be. Hopefully we will get more people like the regs we have now...

*Claps*

And to add my final piece:

I have noticed very little unfriendly behaviour on the forum. So we don't increase our incorrect tagging of "unfriendly", lets keep it that way, OK?

I have received many complaints from newcomers and even some people who have been around for a little about pedantic behaviour, and also arrogance.

The typical complaint I hear about is that newcomers are discouraged to post a new thread anywhere for fear that Moderators will flip out and give them hell for posting their topic in the wrong thread. Quite simply, newcomers are afraid of being ridiculed because they are new.

One example: I thought "n00b" was a term used in games as an insult, not for dreaming.

Righto.

I'll have to start to categorize some kind of FAQ, perhaps with the help of some members, so that we can direct new people to that and specific parts of the FAQ that are relevant, and post that in a friendly way, because I realise now, alot of people interested in this subject havent visited any sort of messageboard in their lives before.

As far as I understand, we already have one by lowercase society...Maybe we can help expand it, though.

I guess what we have is an attitude problem, now that I think about it. Lately it's been Dreamviews vs. the newbs, instead of accepting that the newbs are a part of dreamviews. That is something that, at least, I will try to accept and modify my attitude with that point of view.

God Bless all the new members! Let's all grow together!

Who knows, the next n00b to walk through the door could be a young Serinanth or Lost Soul!

It would be ashamed if the door hit his/her butt on the way out!

Do you guys know that we have had over 100 new members in the past 10 days! Incredible!!!

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Originally posted by Seeker
God Bless all the new members! *Let's all grow together!

Who knows, the next n00b to walk through the door could be a young Serinanth or Lost Soul!

It would be ashamed if the door hit his/her butt on the way out!

Do you guys know that we have had over 100 new members in the past 10 days! *Incredible!!!

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i know...it's just crazy. the board stats are so hopelessly skewed that they're essentially useless: they claim we get like 2.7 new users a day because they encompass every day the forum has existed, even when we first came into existence and just got a few new users a week. there's just more and more people coming here, and right now there are a ton of users and guests on (and they're real guests, too; not bots crawling). i'd imagine i'm going to be getting into trouble with my hosting provider soon...probably going to have to upgrade our hosting package.

anyway, to everyone following along with this thread, i have a plan to help make new users feel more welcome and comfortable here. i'll be posting further details once the moderators provide their thoughts on the matter.

There may be a lot of slander between the forum members that have been here since the beginning, as a result some of the things said, While not taken offensivley to the person you are "joking" with, some of the newbies may think otherwise. My friend, who is a member said he does not feel comfortable in this forum becuace he does not feel in the click. (The group)
Also I believe anyone who does visit this forum long enough to inneract with its members will find out how wrong that this accusation is. It is just a shame that the sight is being badmouthed elswhere. :cry:

I don't think I was rude to any of the newbies, but I will be patient with them in the future and try to help them in anyway.

As for what howtzer said, That is so true about the click thing. When I first came here(which was a long time ago), I was afraid that I would not fit in, but I learned that this site has an accepting community that are very friendly. When I came back after months of not coming here, I had already seen that new people that had joined after I left have already become part of the community like Opheliablue and Evanescant(sp?)(great people if I may add). I think People may seem intimidated with how close the members.

Any thoughts on this?

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Originally posted by nightowl
I don't think I was rude to any of the newbies, but I will be patient with them in the future and try to help them in anyway.

As for what howtzer said, That is so true about the click thing. When I first came here(which was a long time ago), I was afraid that I would not fit in, but I learned that this site has an accepting community that are very friendly. When I came back after months of not coming here, I had already seen that new people that had joined after I left have already become part of the community like Opheliablue and Evanescant(sp?)(great people if I may add). I think People may seem intimidated with how close the members. *

Any thoughts on this?

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Thank You nightowl, well if we keep this up we will have about 1000 more next year, but if we keep climbing at this rate we might have as many members as my amount of posts in a year which will be like 8030 which is very truthful add it up.

In my opinion, the Paperdoll EP thread was a possible no-no for newbies.
Sure, it was funny, but it showed some disdain and arrogance about their lack of knowledge/experience in LDing by 'fooling' them into believing something they didnt fully understand.

Eg. I had more than one newbie tell me that they no longer liked the (unnamed) orchestrators of that thread.

Just a thought...

It would be insolent for me to say I may not have contributed to this from time to time, I have been a little too critical and judgemental.

I'm a lot more tolerant now :) , you won't be seeing any more seething rants from me, besides thay all seem to unravel ino the void from which they came.

YES AND I STRONGLY AGREE WE RETURN LUCID N00B TO LUCID NOVICE... the current title may be seen as a burden on new members.

Return? It used to be Lucid Newb, short for newbie, which probably isn't quite as insulting as n00b.

This month, count EXACTLY how many members we get.

Start at 1115.

I think the lowest ranking could be "Lucid Beginner" or something similarly.

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Originally posted by Human
I think the lowest ranking could be \"Lucid Beginner\" or something similarly.

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Good suggestion, we were just discussing that! :D

We? Are there other people on, in an anonymous rather than hidden state???

By we, I mean there has been discussion among the management here. We are not actively discussing this right now.

How about we just take the postcount, and ratings off?

Nah. As is being discussed, these have no meaning. They're just their and nobody should care about them.

I don't see how "lucid n00b" could be a burden...I mean, when I joined the forum, I thought "lucid n00b. fair play, I've only been here 5 days or so."

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That is so true about the click thing. When I first came here(which was a long time ago), I was afraid that I would not fit in, but I learned that this site has an accepting community that are very friendly. When I came back after months of not coming here, I had already seen that new people that had joined after I left have already become part of the community like Opheliablue and Evanescant(sp?)(great people if I may add). I think People may seem intimidated with how close the members. *
[/b]

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I think there's a sort of transparent line in Dreamviews that has no real definition, but is basically the "in" people and the "other" people. This is simply my opinon, and it's not supposed to insult anybody, but anyway, here's an example:

"in" people:
Seeker
Lost Soul
Truthbearer
icedawg
O'nus
CT
Paperdoll EP
Myself (i.e: Kaniaz)
Lowercase Society
And more...

[i]"other" people:[/b]
Well, basically anybody not on the other list, like newfolk.

It's not a malicious kind of thing, like "hah! you're just not IN with us!" (that sort of thing is sorted for a school playground, not a forum), but there certainly is a "line" or "click" or "group" or whatever.

Interesting thought Kaniaz. Yes, it seems that way, but is it just the nature of a web forum?

People join and begin interacting. Some are very shy and don't post. Some Like OpheliaBlue :smitten: jump in with both feet and start to make friends like crazy.

I suspect that anyone that jumps in on the conversations will feel welcome.

I have been a little leary of the Madame Voodoo thread. We've had people coming to us for help in interpreting dreams, and have brushed them off because they have not been lucid dreams.

Maybe we need to get them out of General and Lucid and create a new "Dream interpretation" thread to handle this?

Think of all the people that come in wanting to know about a dream. They could be lucid dreamers within a few weeks!

Techboy, that was my point. The thing is, people do care about them (moslty new people). Having them not there would encourage them not to be postwhores or up their "rank".

Great idea seeker!

OK.

I think "Dream Views" does suggest "Dream Interpretation" a little.

A Dream Interpretation Section may well be a good idea. And an interpretation tutorial.

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Originally posted by dougdrums
Techboy, that was my point. The thing is, people do care about them (moslty new people). Having them not there would encourage them not to be postwhores or up their \"rank\".

Great idea seeker!

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I would have to agree. Although some people wouldn't probably care, but I'm sure there are others who do and feel discouraged and intimidated talking to all the "Gods", "Masters", "Gurus". etc.

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Originally posted by O'nus


One example: I thought \"n00b\" was a term used in games as an insult, not for dreaming. *

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n00b (of course) just means \"newb\" short for \"newbie\" meaning someone is NEW to the forum. it's the truth. if it offends someone, that's too damn bad. it's not insulting in anyway. just like Kaniaz said. let;s not get all \"politically correct\" just because a couple n00bs get offended at something stupid. :

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Originally posted by Techboy
OK.

I think \"Dream Views\" does suggest \"Dream Interpretation\" a little.

A Dream Interpretation Section may well be a good idea. And an interpretation tutorial.

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aye.

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Originally posted by Techboy
Nah. As is being discussed, these have no meaning. They're just their and nobody should care about them.

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Unfortunately for that theory, some do care about them and feel it affects their worth on the board. :?

However a dream interpretation section sounds like a good idea for those newbies who are interested in the meaning of their dreams. Who knows, a lot of themwould probably move on to the LD sections as time moves on anyway. :P

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Originally posted by Paperdoll EP+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Paperdoll EP)</div>

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OK.

I think \"Dream Views\" does suggest \"Dream Interpretation\" a little.

A Dream Interpretation Section may well be a good idea. And an interpretation tutorial.

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aye.[/b]

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Ha ha! Very good! I have come up with an idea you like!

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Originally posted by Kaniaz
I don't see how \"lucid n00b\" could be a burden...I mean, when I joined the forum, I thought \"lucid n00b. fair play, I've only been here 5 days or so.\"



I think there's a sort of transparent line in Dreamviews that has no real definition, but is basically the \"in\" people and the \"other\" people. This is simply my opinon, and it's not supposed to insult anybody, but anyway, here's an example:

\"in\" people:
Seeker
Lost Soul
Truthbearer
icedawg
O'nus
CT
Paperdoll EP
Myself (i.e: Kaniaz)
Lowercase Society
And more...

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Ahem.. :P

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. 8)

Anyway, I don't think we should have to change much.Especially not the ranks, thats just stupid.If someone doesn't like it, more power to them, but we shouldn't care.Its not your level of importance. :roll:

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Originally posted by Seeker
Maybe we need to get them out of General and Lucid and create a new \"Dream interpretation\" thread to handle this?

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i was always a little hesitant of that idea simply because, despite what some may tell you, interpreting dreams is completely subject and not at all objective. someone bought me a book awhile ago regarding dream interpretation, and it actually is an alphabetical listing of what signs mean (i.e. dreaming of a bridge, etc.) i've skimmed through it once or twice and i think it's quite silly.

regardless of my personal feelings, i agree that perhaps it's time we introduced the aforementioned forum, again because it's completely natural to seek the meaning of one's dreams and people will always be looking for an appropriate forum to ask relevant questions. as mentioned, an FAQ would also be beneficial in such a forum, which could perhaps state that again interpreting dreams is very subjective, and often one has to determine the meaning by his or herself; i think it would also be prudent to mention that most dreams don't have a meaning at all, and are just loosely based on our day-to-day activities, worries, desires, emotional state, etc.

also, again it's time the rank 'lucid n00b' was changed. ;)

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Originally posted by Seeker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Seeker)</div>

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I have been a little leary of the Madame Voodoo thread. *We've had people coming to us for help in interpreting dreams, and have brushed them off because they have not been lucid dreams.[/b]

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That was a valid thread, it was stating my thoughts of the current situation at the time. It wasn't meant to scare people off. It made a valid point, some people came here, asked about a dream, and left, never to be seen again. It addressed those people, not those who came here and as well as having a dream, were genuinely interested in lucid dreaming.

<!--QuoteBegin-Icedawg
was always a little hesitant of that idea simply because, despite what some may tell you, interpreting dreams is completely subject and not at all objective. someone bought me a book awhile ago regarding dream interpretation, and it actually is an alphabetical listing of what signs mean (i.e. dreaming of a bridge, etc.) i've skimmed through it once or twice and i think it's quite silly.

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I agree with you there, it is a bit nonsensical. However, to help those who really want meaning for those dreams, perhaps we should compile a list of websites that deal specifically with dream interpretation. It's just a thought, but it may help a bit.

I'd be glad to help in any way I could.

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Originally posted by icedawg+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(icedawg)</div>

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Maybe we need to get them out of General and Lucid and create a new \"Dream interpretation\" thread to handle this?

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i was always a little hesitant of that idea simply because, despite what some may tell you, interpreting dreams is completely subject and not at all objective. someone bought me a book awhile ago regarding dream interpretation, and it actually is an alphabetical listing of what signs mean (i.e. dreaming of a bridge, etc.) i've skimmed through it once or twice and i think it's quite silly.[/b]

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yes. THAT is silly. but I picked up a book on interpreting dreams that was quite different, and it seemed logical...

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and often one has to determine the meaning by his or herself; *
[/b]

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true. but, before I read that book I probably would have no idea how to interpret my own dreams...it's true that you are the only one who can interpret your own dreams, but, you have to know what to look for first right? you have to know what certain things may imply...I think that having a dream interpretation section is a good idea.

icedawg: I completely sympathize with your ambivalence to create a separate "Dream interpretation" forum for those seeking dream meanings. It seems like probably the best thing that could come out of that would be that helping said people identify dream signs and keep a journal could help connect them to lucidity. It could work? Heck, what do I know.

As far as the n00b title, I guess it has sort of caused "clique" lines to be drawn. I never even noticed it until this thread pointed it out. But I do see how tricky it is, when rank is defined by posts and not level/number of LDs. I dunno, maybe adopters could rank their adoptees when they have reached certain levels? But I guess more complications could come out of that as well. :?

Anyhoo, I'll close this post by saying I think it's great that some of the older members here have decided to adopt a more patient approach toward the n00b's (or "Lucid Beginners", as you will) here at DreamViews. They represent an astounding percentage of the members around here, and I would hope that we would want them to stay! So bravo to all of you who have decided to be more n00b-sympathetic. I know I'm just thrilled with their interest and thirst for learning about and attaining lucidity (myself included). The more people that take this site seriously, the better.

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Originally posted by OpheliaBlue

As far as the n00b title, I guess it has sort of caused \"clique\" lines to be drawn. I never even noticed it until this thread pointed it out. But I do see how tricky it is, when rank is defined by posts and not level/number of LDs. I dunno, maybe adopters could rank their adoptees when they have reached certain levels? But I guess more complications could come out of that as well. :? *

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I know it is possible to make a mod function so it is possible to give other members points.
It is based on that other members give extra points to a member who has created a very helpful thread, and that sort of things.
And I think it would be possibly to give extra points based on how excellent the person are in general as well, not only related to knowledge and experience.

Hence, if it comes a new person here who know a lot of lucid dreaming, we are able to give he/she extra points.
That way will members get "count status" for the quality of their posts, so how much they posts doesn't matter so much that way.

I am not sure if it is possible to make a mod like that in phpBB forums, though.
But I know it is a lot of computer experts here, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
-Human

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Originally posted by Lomebririon+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lomebririon)</div>

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I have been a little leary of the Madame Voodoo thread. *We've had people coming to us for help in interpreting dreams, and have brushed them off because they have not been lucid dreams.

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That was a valid thread, it was stating my thoughts of the current situation at the time. It wasn't meant to scare people off. It made a valid point, some people came here, asked about a dream, and left, never to be seen again. It addressed those people, not those who came here and as well as having a dream, were genuinely interested in lucid dreaming.
[/b]

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I hope I didn't offend you Lomebririon! I didn't mean to. :oops:

My only concern was that maybe we are sometimes a little too harsh when we state that we do not interpret dreams.

Maybe we don't need a Dream Interpretation section. Maybe we need a Non-Lucid Experiences section, some place where non-lucid dreams can be discussed. Of course, then that begins to bump into the dream journal section...

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I dunno, maybe adopters could rank their adoptees when they have reached certain levels?[/b]

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adoptation was originally meant to be just a couple of days showing around the forum, explaining how things go in these forums and some help with LD'ing and where to look and what stuff to read.

But it turned out to be some kind of long-term something, without much use IMO.


About dream interpretations: Perhaps a new forum would be good for that but I'm not really going to visit it because I dont know anything about that. Perhaps, when people sign up, we could state that this forum is not for dream interpretations or something, perhaps that would prevent some people to post their dreams here.

I just wanted to give a quick insight about the creation of a dream interpretation forum. Here is what I suggest we do instead. We go ahead and create a very extensive tutorial in which we show people how they can interpret their dreams, at least to some extent. I believe it is much better to do such a thing that have newbs asking us what we think their dreams mean. Let us give them the tools they need to discover it on their own.

I volunteer for this proyect(I have been wanting to contribute with a tutorial for a while) and if someone else wants to help me with the research I would be more than glad to get some help. Whether or not we create a section just for posting dreams and such, I think this would still be a great addition to our tutorial section.

Just something to think about. In case you(Seeker or Icedawg) think its a good idea, let me know so I can begin....

i didnt read everything that's been said becouse i still dont feel like i belong enough and i still dont know much about how it goes over here...
but i have a seggestion all the same if you guys wont mind...


i post in another forum (not dreams related) for a long time now... and the growth rate over there is abit slower but things are kept so good that every single one that stays makes a diffrance and fits right in...
and i think the reason for that has much to do with the moderators as with the members...
now... again i still dont know how the moderators here work but from what i've seen, you guys let too much BS and off topic posts stay...
misinformation/pointless posts/name calling/arguments that have nothing to do with topic and general offtopic posts... all these (and probably some stuff i forgot...) should not be tolarated at all!
if there is one thing that makes furums useless is having to seive through alot of posts that are simply not worth reading (like the things i mentioned) and when you have to deal that you get tired real fast and loose intrest...

memebers who care and agree with such guidlines should also comment when needed (informing people of guidlines in a respectfull way is always apriciated) now sense in leaving it all for the moderators...
i see you had a set of rules but decided to leave just one... i can't see why but i guess i'm not in a position to argue it :)
but maybe do a post with some guidlines for noobs (like a refrence when greeting a noob)
and later these noobs want to fit in so they'll do their best to be kind to other noobs and help as much as they can like they've been helped and treated :)

i haven't been here much and already it's important for me to make this a better place cuz i can see i'm here to stay :D

so i hope you guy's wont take this the wrong way...

You have a valid point, we do make a lot of off topic posts in several subjects, and it might not seem that way to you, but that is what makes this place great. It would be really tedious and boring to just have to follow strict rules and stick to every single subject. I know that is why the nondreaming related sections are for, but it still make the subject more entertaining. If at anytime you are in a thread and we go terribly off topic and don't answer the question, then demand it from us, by all means. Sometimes we get carried away, but its not that big a deal. We generally return to the topic anyway, after the nonesense resolves itself in its own volition...

I am not justifying anything, all I am saying is that this is what I like the most about this place, and what attracted me here in the first place. It is a bit frustrating at first, but you'll get used to it. You'll even do it yourself, probably. And as I said before don't be afraid to give us a good shake and slap us a couple of times saying "Back on topic, people!!!" :wink:

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. I do however admit that at times I am a bit jaded, and instead of giving the newbs the warm welcome I generally do, I just tell them to check out the tutorials, site, etc. or something else that might not be categorized as a real friendly and warm behavior

ya,sry to be a bit old, but, when iwas still visiting the noob forum thing, i would ask people stuff and get \"READ THE TUTORIOL!\" or something along those lines..... its not really that great to hear,...... but anyway, if were all a bit more noob friendly, maybe people will stay for much longer, k :D [/b]

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i totaly understand and i agree...
but i still stand behind what i said :)

i know that a big part of what makes a great forum is the freedom and the feeling of a family that it gives...
but still i consider these things as good attiquete in forums... and people should not abuse this freedom!

i DO understand the diffrance betwine total offtopic posts and general comments which might not have nothing to do with the topic but certenly have to do with the person (which happens alot when people post alot and get to know each other :) )

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Originally posted by simisu
i see you had a set of rules but decided to leave just one... i can't see why but i guess i'm not in a position to argue it :)

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i feel the one rule we have is too general; i will be introducing additional rules again sometime in the foreseeable future. it's just a little tricky getting the wording just right, so that they aren't excessively binding. i'd say we definitely need to at least assemble a list of guidelines (for example, although i don't want to end discussion altogether in the Feedback and Announcements forums, those really should be kept for serious issues and not idle chat; some users are likely to not read posts in there if too often they aren't really pertinent at all).

Truthbearer: we will be going ahead with the creation of a dream interpretation forum; we will be supplementing it with an FAQ and you're more than welcome to help with that. :mrgreen:

Geez you guys can post fast... :wink:

About the off topic thing - The problem I have with being more strict on that is that often newbies can be offended, and start rumours about being unfriendly, and cycle repeats.

Eg. If a newbie posts in the wrong place, and then changes subjects and talks..well..rubbish... then if anyone reprimands him, he may simply go elsewhere and call us unfriendly.

Of course we can't be everything to all people I guess...

About the dream interpretation thread, I think its necessary. But Truthbearers idea of a tutorial is great too. The thing is, most of us do not want to interprete other people's dreams. This way we can shove them into the section of people that do. And point them in the direction of tutorials.

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About the off topic thing - The problem I have with being more strict on that is that often newbies can be offended, and start rumours about being unfriendly, and cycle repeats. [/b]

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i think your wrong... if its done in a respectfull way (PMing the person and giving and explanation plus maybe a refrence to guidlines on the forum) there's no need to be offended unless you're an imature 12 year old boy who doesn't really care about anything except being "heard"

plus... people should be incoredged to use PMing... i'm not used to it at all but it can save alot of topics from being derailed and evantualy useless

and having read the thread all the way through i think i can also add this../

biggest problame with noobs is that most of them dont take the time to read all the info that's out there... they prefer asking questions or having their dream inturpered (if that what they came for thinking that poeple can do that for them)...
so you get alot of questions that are basically the same all the time...
so why not pick some good threads that already explain most of these questions and gather them on one sitcky thread (as links with self explinatory names) and incuredge noobs to read these links befor posting a question (mainly on a forum like "ataining lucidety")
and it makes answering noobs's qeustions much better cuz the questions are much more insightfull and specific so you can help them better once they know exectly what they want to ask and how :)

~well, i'm only a n00b but this is interesting...i just wanted to say that(boy, hope i'm not posting in the wrong place :) )i have found this forum to be very friendly so far...sometimes i've noticed people getting off topic but it's not a big deal...i wouldn't mind if someone told me i was doing something wrong...just be nice about it and all...i don't get too many replies to my posts sometimes but that's ok...i think this place is pretty cool and i may get the hang of it sometime :) ...i just think that it's just that you have to stick around long enough to really learn how to be in this place...people are too sensitive...

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Originally posted by Paperdoll EP
oh boy! hate mail! :-P

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...drama, drama, drama...


Ice, thank you. Period.

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One example: I thought \"n00b\" was a term used in games as an insult, not for dreaming.

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n00b (of course) just means \"newb\" short for \"newbie\" meaning someone is NEW to the forum. it's the truth. if it offends someone, that's too damn bad. it's not insulting in anyway. just like Kaniaz said. let;s not get all \"politically correct\" just because a couple n00bs get offended at something stupid. :

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Originally posted by Techboy
OK.

I think \"Dream Views\" does suggest \"Dream Interpretation\" a little.

A Dream Interpretation Section may well be a good idea. And an interpretation tutorial.

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aye.[/b]

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This response is a good example of the patronizing of new comers.

My two cents:

I agree with simisu...

There's a lot of non-relevent and useless posts (and yes, by non-newbies)on the forum which is a big turn-off to me. I used to comb the forum and post quite a bit, but now I just skim through a couple of topics for interesting threads. Even then I end up wasting time skimming through posts that seem to have no depth of thought invested in them. Sure it's fun to be light once in a while... but there's "light" and then there's "ridiculous" and "completely unnecesary."

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One example: I thought \"n00b\" was a term used in games as an insult, not for dreaming.

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n00b (of course) just means \"newb\" short for \"newbie\" meaning someone is NEW to the forum. it's the truth. if it offends someone, that's too damn bad. it's not insulting in anyway. just like Kaniaz said. let;s not get all \"politically correct\" just because a couple n00bs get offended at something stupid. :

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Originally posted by Techboy
OK.

I think \"Dream Views\" does suggest \"Dream Interpretation\" a little.

A Dream Interpretation Section may well be a good idea. And an interpretation tutorial.

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aye.

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This response is a good example of the patronizing of new comers.[/b]

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it just pisses me off that some n00bs come in, post for a couple of days and then act like they own the place. :

I always thought everyone was nice on the forum. Atleast on the dream forums everyone is really nice. Some people argue a bit more on the off-topic ones, but even then i wouldn't consider the forum "mean". I seen other forums where people argue all the time and a lot of them all hate each other and stuff, its nothing like that here.

There are a lot of threads that don't seem to say much or repeat old topics, I just skip them though. No one really has to go and read every post heh.

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One example: I thought \"n00b\" was a term used in games as an insult, not for dreaming.

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n00b (of course) just means \"newb\" short for \"newbie\" meaning someone is NEW to the forum. it's the truth. if it offends someone, that's too damn bad. it's not insulting in anyway. just like Kaniaz said. let;s not get all \"politically correct\" just because a couple n00bs get offended at something stupid. :

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Originally posted by Techboy
OK.

I think \"Dream Views\" does suggest \"Dream Interpretation\" a little.

A Dream Interpretation Section may well be a good idea. And an interpretation tutorial.

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aye.

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This response is a good example of the patronizing of new comers.[/b]

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it just pisses me off that some n00bs come in, post for a couple of days and then act like they own the place. :[/b][/quote]

AYE! but people will be people, however much we try and make things better. People are always egocentric, some more than others.
In this case many nOObs, just come and find out something which involves them, and doesn't contribute to the forum...
But anyway...i think this forum is more unique and commititized(is that even a word?) than any other. Period.

Sorry guys, i forgot something that makes sense and should be seen by itself:


[b][i]'Everybody will inevitably find something wrong

Its the truth...with everything...
even something as beautiful as the dancing banana...people found something wrong with the pixels on it's left arm! :P

hey everyone.

thanks for all the feedback; it is extremely appreciated. i just wanted to let you all know that your concerns will not go unheeded. stay tuned for a rather lengthy announcement monday or tuesday which will cover all my proposed solutions to the raised issues, along with some unrelated things as well. pending that announcement i'm going to temporarily close this discussion.

thanks again!