When do you give up?

I just laid perfectly still for an hour. The same place on
my hip itched for an hour, and I didn't move. Slobber was
dripping down my chin for an hour, and I finally shifted
into SP, for about 5 seconds, then I came back.
Am I honestly supposed to lay in the same place,
in pain, for 2 hours like I did last time?
When are you going to know it won't work?
SP just isn't working. I usually lay perfectly still
for an hour before giving it up, because it said 25
minutes. Nothing happens after 25 minutes for me.
I usually don't even get that first wave before
45 minutes.

Well, it can be rather tricky to encompass your ability. It's like anything; you will learn it with time.

I have been trying the WILD technique for some time, but honestly only put my true effort forward maybe 10-20% of the time. Other times, I give in and fall asleep.

I still cannot WILD successfully while trying by counting, but found out that I can actually come back into a WILD from an initial sleep. By that I mean that I actually fall asleep briefly, and somehow become conscious in the SP and imagery phase. It has happened a few times now just from WBTB and then thinking about being lucid. I don't really know how I do it; it is like I set an alarm in my body that pulls me back into the dream when it begins -- and I am lucid.

To get back at your question...

I've never really felt the SP yet since I haven't had a real WILD the conventional way. I'm always in the dream and unaware of the real feeling of the SP, even though it's occuring.

I can sometimes produce the hynogogic imagery very fast. There are ways of doing things that we just don't fully understand, I know this. Last night, I went to bed and saw some immediate hynogogic imagery I created very quickly by a thought scene. I'm talking like a couple of minutes. I didn't really seem to try and do it. When it happened, I lost the thought and broke concentration. I couldn't get back to it again because my mind became excited.

I think the trick is being a bit tired to actually suppress your mood somewhat. When you are alert, your mind wanders much too easily and breaks concentration.

Hey there,

When do you give up? I think there's a very simple answer to that:

When it stops being fun... or interesting... or fascinating... or enjoyable. Basically, when it goes from 'alright, lets try this!' to 'ahh hell, do I have to do this again or how much longer is this gonna take?'. When it stops being a positive thing, and becomes a chore or a source of frustration.

In that case: stop! Try again the next day, do something else for a while, stop thinking about it even. You get nowhere, in my opinion, if your heart isn't in it anymore. The only thing that'll happen at that point is that you'll begin to associate your attempts at SP and WILD with negative feelings, and that's just going to make things even harder, if not impossible.

Just my 2 cents,

-Redrivertears-

I never came to such a point. Either it works within minutes, or if not, I fall asleep anyways. And I don't try it when I don't feel tired in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dream Sailor

I've never really felt the SP yet since I haven't had a real WILD the conventional way. I'm always in the dream and unaware of the real feeling of the SP, even though it's occuring.

---

During WILD, it's similar to me. I only felt SP once on waking up recently.

You guys are even lucky to reach SP at all, I have the same problem, I lay there for 1:30-2:00 hours before giving up because im getting nowhere and I dont think im doing anything wrong. Ive tried WILD several times and not a bit of progress on my part = /

Hey there,

Do remember that Sleep Paralysis, while immensily helpful, is not actually a requirement for WILDS. Dont get so focussed on having SP that you lose track of your actual goal, which is to have a WILD.

I can't get into sleep paralysis neither. I've never experienced it in my life, neither induced nor accidental. I can feel my body go numb, yes, even get some strange sensations (tinglings, vibrations, etc), but I can always move at any time I want to. Personally I think sleep paralysis is 98% a physiological thing, and it depends strongly on how your body falls asleep. Some people can induce it, others get it even when they don't try to induce it, and others just cannot get it, because their body simply doesn't work that way (ofcourse they still could through application of medicine or drugs or through special circumstances).

I have however had WILDs before. Granted very few, but I've experienced them. For me WILDs are a matter of withdrawing my attention from my body (which is easier to do if your body is paralysed, but can be done even if it isn't). In short, you sort of have to "forget" that your body is even there. This is incidentally how most people go to sleep. Whether they're counting sheep, trying not to think of anything, trying to visualise a dream or what not. Its all the same thing, you're withdrawing your attention from your body and your physical surroundings. And that, to me, is the essence of inducing a WILD.

So in short, don't worry too much about whether or not your body is paralysed. (in fact with the above in mind worrying about it too much is likely to have an adverse effect as you're focussing your attention ON your body rather then away from it). Paralysation is not a necessity.

Hope that helps!

-Redrivertears-

Red, I really don't get it.
I know SP isn't necessary, but isn't it a guarantee
of a Lucid Dream?

If I'm only supposed to draw attention away from
my body, then what do I put the attention on?
I'm a little frustrated with all this because
I've been trying every night, and getting no where.

Hey there,

Sleep Paralysis is not a garantue neither, there's plenty of people who report getting to sleep paralysis and not managing to WILD from there. In my opinion sleep paralysis is a purely physiological thing. It does exactly what it says, it paralysis your body, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't create dreams, it doesn't create Hypnagogic Imagery, in fact it's not even directly related to dreaming at all.

That said, generally speaking sleep paralysis does make things easier! Because in this state your body is fully asleep, and that means it's no longer submitting stimuli and impulses to your mind. Thus, it's not constantly drawing attention to itself anymore like our body normally does. This allows our mind to "disconnect" as it were from the waking realm, and begin making dreamimages of its own. Those dreamimages usually start with hypnagogic imagery, which is why the two so often seen related... but its an indirect correlation, nothing more.

So if you CAN get to sleep paralysis, by all means use it because it does facilitate things. But if you cannot (like me), don't worry, it's not a necessity, nor a garantue of managing a WILD.

How do you draw your attention away from your body? That's both very easy and tricky at the same time. The very easy part is this: same way like you go to sleep normally. The tricky part is staying conscious while doing it!

There's many reported methods. Some people manage to blank their mind, literally thinking of nothing at all. Some people like to count, focussing all their attention on the counting (and thus again away from the body), some people pay attention to the hypnagogic imagery and try to follow these into becoming full blown dreams (my own personal method), some people like to visualize scenes, using their imagination to sort of try and create a dreamscene.

The one thing you should NOT be doing is lying there and trying to 'feel' your body going to sleep or sleep paralysis. Analysing every tingle, every numb feeling, every little muscle jerk means and constantly wondering whether or not 'you're there yet' means you're paying a lot of attention to your body, almost exclusively. And in my experience that's exactly the thing that keeps you from actually managing to fall asleep.

Ofcourse, all that is just my opinion :)

-Redrivertears-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redrivertears

Hey there,

Do remember that Sleep Paralysis, while immensily helpful, is not actually a requirement for WILDS. Dont get so focussed on having SP that you lose track of your actual goal, which is to have a WILD.

I can't get into sleep paralysis neither. I've never experienced it in my life, neither induced nor accidental. I can feel my body go numb, yes, even get some strange sensations (tinglings, vibrations, etc), but I can always move at any time I want to. Personally I think sleep paralysis is 98% a physiological thing, and it depends strongly on how your body falls asleep. Some people can induce it, others get it even when they don't try to induce it, and others just cannot get it, because their body simply doesn't work that way (ofcourse they still could through application of medicine or drugs or through special circumstances).

I have however had WILDs before. Granted very few, but I've experienced them. For me WILDs are a matter of withdrawing my attention from my body (which is easier to do if your body is paralysed, but can be done even if it isn't). In short, you sort of have to "forget" that your body is even there. This is incidentally how most people go to sleep. Whether they're counting sheep, trying not to think of anything, trying to visualise a dream or what not. Its all the same thing, you're withdrawing your attention from your body and your physical surroundings. And that, to me, is the essence of inducing a WILD.

So in short, don't worry too much about whether or not your body is paralysed. (in fact with the above in mind worrying about it too much is likely to have an adverse effect as you're focussing your attention ON your body rather then away from it). Paralysation is not a necessity.

Hope that helps!

-Redrivertears-

---

What matter of pop-science is that? "Sleep paralysis is a psychological thing..." What...the hell?...Sleep paralysis is something that happens to humans when their body's fall asleep at night so they won't act out their dreams in their sleep. It's not something lucid dreamers invented as a "crutch" to aid our lucid dreaming attempts...it's something that's evident and was around before we even knew what lucid dreaming was. Anyway...continue to forge your own paths.

Hey there,

Taken from Wikipedia, to aid clarify things:

"Physiology (from Greek: φυσις, physis, “nature, origin”; and λόγος, logos, "knowledge") is the study of the mechanical, physical, and biochemical functions of living organisms."

Physiology is the study of the BODY. Psychology is the study of the MIND.


Hope that helps!

-Redrivertears-

Since were on the same boat ive searched around the forum and found this interesting post on "How to fail a WILD", and it may explain why it isn't working well for us http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=15190

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redrivertears

Hey there,

Taken from Wikipedia, to aid clarify things:

"Physiology (from Greek: φυσις, physis, “nature, origin”; and λόγος, logos, "knowledge") is the study of the mechanical, physical, and biochemical functions of living organisms."

Physiology is the study of the BODY. Psychology is the study of the MIND.


Hope that helps!

-Redrivertears-

---

Yes it does, I misread, thanks. :)

I think this is why meditation helps... if you can focus your mind on some dream imagery, something away from your body, that would probably help your body fall asleep while keeping you concscious. But heck, no wilds over here yet.

WHAT??? There's such thing a first wave? My god I've given up so many times because I thought this "first wave" was actually a failure!

I can go into sleep paralysis after a few minutes, however I can never seem to get past that. But after reading this I do know my problem. I am focusing too much about what Im feeling, not freeing my mind from my body. Thanks I guess Ill just need to put in more effort tonight. Thanks.

The temptation to quit will be greatest just before you are about to succeed.