Lucid dreams and mental imaging

I recently discovered that the majority of the human population seems to be capable of doing something that I can't, namely create mental images of things they're thinking about. For example: if you think of a familiar person then you see a mental picture of that person. I was genuinely surprised to discover that people do this as I don't get any mental images at all, and I've discovered that I form part of a very small percentage of the population called a "non-imager" :(

What I'm interested in finding out is how many people on this forum who achieve lucidity in their dreams can't create clear mental images in their waking state?

I have a LOT of trouble creating mental images. You're not the only one :)
And don't worry, it doesn't affect your ability to become lucid, or make them any less vivid.

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Originally Posted by Robb58

I recently discovered that the majority of the human population seems to be capable of doing something that I can't, namely create mental images of things they're thinking about. For example: if you think of a familiar person then you see a mental picture of that person. I was genuinely surprised to discover that people do this as I don't get any mental images at all, and I've discovered that I form part of a very small percentage of the population called a "non-imager" :(

What I'm interested in finding out is how many people on this forum who achieve lucidity in their dreams can't create clear mental images in their waking state?

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Well, this is news to me! In my experience, people are generally very poor "mental imagers". They can't visualise for toffee. I'd be interested to know where you got this info from.. it sounds spurious to me. The only way that such info could have been culled is by asking groups of people if they could do it, and people are notorious exaggerators/liars. I wonder if the people involved in collating the info calculated the "validity quotient" as regards the information they were given?

I suck at visualizing things as well. I also was under the impression that most people could do it better than me.

I just saw "The Brave One" movie recently and it got me and my bf talking about how people do descriptions for police sketch artists. I don't actually think I could have described Jodie Foster after staring at her on screen for 2 hours, much less describe a random person that may have been involved in a crime.

Same goes for drawing things from memory, even things I've seen thousands of times - Just can't do it.

I also got the impression that quite a few people on these forums are much better at visualizing than I am. Especially since a lot of the techniques people talk about (especially for WILDs) involve visualizing things as you go to sleep.

It does feel better to know I'm not the only one :) And I guess we'll never know for sure whether or not it effects dream quality - but we can only hope :)

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Originally Posted by Oneiro

Well, this is news to me! In my experience, people are generally very poor "mental imagers". They can't visualise for toffee. I'd be interested to know where you got this info from.. it sounds spurious to me. The only way that such info could have been culled is by asking groups of people if they could do it, and people are notorious exaggerators/liars. I wonder if the people involved in collating the info calculated the "validity quotient" as regards the information they were given?

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It was news to me only a couple of months back that people actually saw images. I thought that it was a figure of speech when someone used the phrase "mental Image" as i sense things but never see an actual image in my conscious state. I do get a lot of disbelief from people when I tell them that I don't see anything - it's not just that I see a fuzzy image - it's completely blank. If you follow this thread you'll get a much better idea of what I'm on about:
http://www.quicktopic.com/20/H/Z85yvCpH8FP

Well.. I read it, and like I said it would be, the "evidence" is spurious. No meat atall.

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Originally Posted by Oneiro

Well.. I read it, and like I said it would be, the "evidence" is spurious. No meat atall.

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Unfortunately, I often get accused of being mistaken about this matter. It would seem that even to suggest that I don't get visual mental images challenges something fundamental within people, and I get treated like I'm simply missing the point - Believe me when I say I'd love there to be something there, it would be incredibly useful, but the fact remains, I close my eyes and, whilst conscious, there is no recognisable shape, shadow or colour that would represent anything coming close to an identfiable or even remotely useable image. The concept of a true mental image is as alien to me as it would seem the lack of it is to those who experience them.

I do have a mechanism for creating a mental impression of something but there is no conscious experience of an image. It may be working at a deeper level but I can honestly say that I never see a visual representation of a thought in my waking state. I readily accept that it forms a fundamental part of many peoples thought processes, and I have several friends who's mental imagery is close to an almost material reality. What ever the process is that I'm using to create my own personal map of the world, it doesn't manifest itself in any visual form when I try to recall it.

I appreciate Oneiro's scepticism of the "evidence" is a genuine and valid one. I don't think anything I say will change that view as what i present is a notion as seemingly spurious in its evidence as the pursuit of proving paranormal activity. I could be deluded in my conviction that I'm a non-imager, but without ever experiencing a valid mental visual (despite my best efforts!), I have to accept that it's not an accessible or remotely useable part of my personal conscious thought process.

Having said all of that.... I do dream, so, meanwhile, back to the lucid dream experiences - do any more non-imagers out there have them?..... :lol:

Listen.. I wasn't challenging your own status on this matter.. I was challenging the "evidence" that says that the majority of people can "mental image", because from that link that you posted, the evidence is definitely spurious. I certainly didn't mean to cast aspersions on your own ability or lack thereof. I'm not accusing you of anything.

Please don't worry, absolutely no offence taken at all :cheers:

I accept that the reseach and accompyaning documentation is way too sketchy which I find really frustrating as well. I've tried to find information about non-imaging but, because it would seem that the majority of the population experience some form of visual mental images, the research is normally undertaken from the perspective of it being a curious anomoly. From my point of view, the idea of visual mental imaging seems as abstract a concept as seeing ghosts walking the streets :holycrap:

Back on-topic, to answer your question: I have periods when I can't "image" to save my life, and I have periods where I have an amazing ability to do it.. full clarity, leading to me going into LDing without falling asleep. I lay down and visualise my hands and suddenly I have an intensely clear picture of them, as real as if I'd had my eyes open.. and there I am, instantly in an LD still being awake. Now I know that this flies in the face of popular "wisdom" concerning LDing, but what can I say? I can only report what happens.

To sum up, I don't think one needs any special ability to visualise to learn LDing.

All the best to you.

That's an amazing ability. I have a friend who's mental imaging is so complete that she can create complete scenarios in front of herself with such clarity that they verge on reality. I guess her ability to create and influence these scenes is very akin to the conscious LDing that you mention Oneiro