Here's a thought that occurred to me. What if lucid dreaming does not exist. Suppose it's just "dream logic", where the dream convinces you that you are in control? Not that I don't believe it, it's jsut an interesting thought.
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Here's a thought that occurred to me. What if lucid dreaming does not exist. Suppose it's just "dream logic", where the dream convinces you that you are in control? Not that I don't believe it, it's jsut an interesting thought.
Well, LUCID means "aware" or "Conscious". So if you are aware or conscious in your dream, then you are lucid dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bennington
Dream control is something separate, and whether it convinces you that your in control, or you really are, if you can control it, its still dream control.
So Lucid Dreaming is real...
Blasphemy!
Just kidding, well I don't think that is true, based on my experience, but it is an interesting thought.
Some scientists say that it's not possible to lucid dream, only to dream of lucid dreams.
It's up to you to believe that.
The only person who says it's not real is someone who hasn't had a lucid dream before. It's quite a normal experience, not far fetched in any way.
Couldn't you say the same thing about waking life?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bennington
I'm undecided on lucid dreams. I've had a few but I've yet to have one amazingly clear enough to totally convince me (My actions didnt line up with my motives).
I'm still trying though :P
I have heard this theory before.
When Laberge was working on lucid dreaming there were several researchers that did not believe him or the idea of lucid dreaming. Some even reduced it to what you are suggesting, that is, until they experienced it for themselves.
Even if we only dream about lucid dreaming, I don't see how it makes much of a difference. I can still control the content and experiences I have in them, which is enough to fool me into thinking I am entirely aware. Maybe it is just my dream doing it for me, but it is still enjoyable!
This sounds very similar to this thread
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=45967
Even if you are only dreaming about lucid dreaming, you are still aware that you are in a dream, so it is lucid dreaming. I think...
Just experience a WILD and you'll see how real dreams can get. Personaly I think WILDs are the ultimate "proof". There is nothing more amazing and freaky then being aware all the way through.
Even if LDing is just a huge conspiracy created by my subconscious it wouldn't change the fact that I was aware that I was dreaming.
Also dreaming about lucid dreaming is impossible.
It's just like saying, "What if we don't exist, we just think we do?" or "What if we have no living consciousness but our brain is so advanced it could trick us into thinking we had".
No, I'm not dissing those are pretty good questions. You're right about lucid dreaming, though I do know I can remember the date, what I need to do in the morning etc. depending on how aware I am.
When it comes to the question " are lucid dreams real", its quite hard to take a solid stand on it. Half of the reason is, we are half-conscious when it happens. How can we prove everything in our head is real?
Theres also far-fetched theories that "reality" isn't real, and we are all A.I. living in a personalized world.
As far as I like to look at it, it's like this.
I experience it, I live it. It's gotta be real.
I'd say it's definitely real. I've had lucid dreams where I could literally feel myself lying in bed, pillow, blankets and all and once could vaguely hear my tv on in the other room. I knew without a doubt I was "awake" yet not.
Lucid dreaming is dreaming and knowing you are dreaming. If your dreaming and can say (and believe) "I am dreaming", your having a lucid. I'd say that it's real, alright!
Hi, U may be half right. U can have a lucid dream by programing one prior to sleep by having all the necessary intent and memories from the day like checks U did and what U''d want to do when U become lucid. I can program like a light fails and I do a reality check and I know it's a dream and I carry out as planned..:). So I guess U may be right that lucid dreaming may not be because of suddenly becoming concious but is dream logic as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bennington
IMJ
what is real anyway?
Nope, its not real. Its all a lie!!! lol
I've often had this thought also.
Like what if its just a regular dream except the dream logic is making me think "its only a dream", in the same way that it can make me think that flying is real or whatever. Because I obsess about the idea of lucid dreaming, my dream becomes about lucid dreaming.
I think its quite possible thats the case, but regardless of whether it is or isn't, it doesn't matter because the outcome is the same. We still get to have awesome vivid dreams where we can do anything we want. In the morning all we have is a memory of it, regardless of how that memory was created we still have that memory.
It's like believing in fate or not. Some people think our destiny is predetermined and choice is just an illusion, others think we always have a choice. But ultimately there is no difference. You still think your making a choice, whether you were predestined to or not. So unless you can time travel and make different choices, our lives are exactly the same whether fate exists or not.
If anyone really thinks their life is just a dream, maybe they should jump of a cliff and see what happens?
XD
Just so you know, I DO NOT suggest it.
Dream logic is a part of our dream. Dreams are part of our mind, and our mind is part of us. So dream logic is actually our logic. When it convinces you that your are dreaming... well that's what happens in lucid dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bennington
Don't know if that makes sense :?
I dunno, I remember lucid dreams in a different way than regular dreams. Like I remember thinking "wow I am my conscious self IN A DREAM"
I think it would be very difficult to explain the results of some of LaBerge's experiments. Where lucid dreamers use eye-signals to communicate with the outside world. In particular - though you'd have to be careful with the numbers here - the DreamLight (NovaDreamer) experiment where you become lucid in response to a light signal, and then signal back to the outside world by moving your eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bennington
Though I guess you're talking more about dream control. The above argues for you having free will in lucid dreams, but it doesn't argue that your will affects the dream.
Subjectively, if you're successful with dream recall, interpretation, and lucid dreaming, then you do gain a very strong impression that a) the content of your dreams come from your own mind b) conscious dreaming gives you conscious control over your dreams.
Obviously some experienced people disagree with a) to the extent that they believe in divinely inspired and shared dreams, and they have every right to their opinion. But if you agree with a) (for some dream sequence, maybe not all) then I think it's pointless to argue with b). If you have the impression of control, and there's nothing else that could be controlling the dream, then you have control. Unless you want to argue about whether we have any control / free will at all, which is a wider philosophical argument.