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Lucius,
You might find this hard to believe, but I have studied a little Buddhism. The concepts and behaviors expected of one following Buddhism are in line with those of Christianity.
Esentially.. Love, Respect, Compassion, Service to fellow man are all common concepts among many religeons.
Believe it or not, I try to re-read Siddhartha by Herman Hesse at least twice a year and apply the concepts. Everytime I read it, I learn something new about myself.
Like I said, God is not a he, nor a she, it is a IT. God is everything,i refer to God as the cosmos. The cosmos is everything, the cosmos is the planet and the universe. The cosmos feeds the planet with its energy,it feeds all the souls, all of us, we souls are created by the cosmos and we shall return to the cosmos when we are enlighted and live ours personal heavens. The cosmos does not judge on death,as there is no hell for you to send, when you live a useless life and bring negative energy upon the planet an yourself and other you shall be punished by your own negative energy and be reincarnated as a lesser human or even lesser being(humans are superior because they can achieve enlightment and escape the ethernal circle)
The cosmos will be forever, even if the planet dies(again) it will be revived and it will all start again, the creation of souls is endless, its all endless, we are forever.
I dont have time to explain it all to more...mabey next time
I don't understand Blu's question.
~_~
Seeker,
Mabey religions go out from such principiles, luckily they do because every human being should live with those things, even those who dont belief anything..but yes your right there are some things that are the same..yet so diffirent at the same time
What or who is god?Quote:
Originally posted by Paperdoll EP
I don't understand Blu's question.
~_~
Interesting spin on it Blu. I suppose I have never considered this before as my Lucid Dreaming so far has not progressed to the point it matters.
Hmmm, will think on this while at the gym this afternoon. Get back to you in the morning...
About heaven and hell...
I believe that Tao (the way), or our earth, has no sense of progressive time. All time happens all at once. It is because we choose to percieve life as sequential that it is linear, but in reality it is like Einstein's theory of relativity. Our universe is like a rock in a stream (taoist metaphor), the water hits it, goes all ways around it, and then rejoins in the same pattern it was in before it hit the rock. So, when we look at a universe through another universe, we aren't seeing it, we are seeing it a few billion years ago, we are seeing it's past!
Think about your memory, do you ever remember in order? Of course not, we remember in a mish-mash of topics that are 'related' not sequencial.
Therefore, because in the Christian religion God and Satan are transcendent of human perception, time, most likely does not effect their worlds, they are then everpresent.
I would suggest that the lake of fire is here and now. I would suggest that Heaven's gates open before us each day here on earth...we merely cannot percieve them.
That is our damnation...we get both, all the time. Tastes of heaven and hell, even our perception of linear time is a curse. Don't you imagine getting to heaven and being omnipresent, all knowing of your life at all times in an instance! I did as a kid. Now I am coming closer to understanding that.
It is the light and the dark that make us. Good begets evil here. That is why we are sinners, cause we're not allowd to judge who is good, who is evil...ya' never know, it may just take the most evil evil to help save the EARTH! Like Golem having to be sacrificed to save middle earth. Like Cecil and Kain in Final Fantasy Two, both good and evil save us all.
So, the Tao teaches me that Heaven, Earth and Hell all exist at the same time. I think being a Taoist has made me more Christian then ever, hehe.
reincarnation is an explanation of how energy recycles itself. It's just like how science says that energy never dissapates, it just changes form. Same exact concept. We do not die...we do not leave here...that doesn't happen until the Messiah comes, supposedly. Until then we are a connected spirit under God.
So I think that Heaven and Hell are mind sets. People are allowd to exist in either one here. some ppl imagine their lives as stressful, anxious, horrid full of fear and sin, that is hell. Some people are virtous, meek, have little desire, love god but do not love the forms of god, they do not worship the idols (money, society, materialism, etc.), these people are in heaven. Of course, that means that heaven and hell exist in all different levels, sorta like Date's inferno, some are more trapped by their delusion then others.
But I do believe in True transcendence. I really do think that not only did Jesus become a Buddha (enlightened) but he also was the prophet who managed to show the world that death is impermanent and can be overcome. That is his fogiveness, he transcended and then said to God "well, I need to go back, I gotta help out more." The Buddhists write of this type of reicarnation, although, I cannot remember the name. But they predicted Jesus a long time ago. He is a saint amoung saints for choosing to turn his back on Nirvanna and give us all a sign of hope.
hehe, I love this stuff. Let me know what you guys think of my idea.
I like the way you think. There is no reason to think of time as linear. In fact, in physics, time is bidiretional. It is our frail human understanding that assigns one direction to it.
Your concepts also apply to the concept of Karma. Except that everything is in balance.
Lucious: I like how you said "If the planet dies (again..." hehehe
totally agree. Civilization works in reicarnations. Those of you who read the Bible prolly don't get to here this in church, but the Bible is a collection of many ANCIENT histories summarized for convienence.
The Judaic and Islamic writings I have read talke about the regenerations of Humanity on Earth.
The fall of Babylon is an Old Testament example, as is the great flood.
The Flood story is common to almost EVERY religion, even a few thousand tribal histories. It is quite remarkable that despite all the censorship done by missionaries and their armies (Rome to the US) that these still exist congruently, but amazingly enough, you can learn so much by studying any Aborigional belief system, or and of the major religions.
Jesus would have made a great Buddhist or Ute, no matter where you are or what you believe, love is the same everywhere!
I think we are each eternal souls, but we are also bound to eachother.
Independent Origionation. Yep, the Buddha taught that so long ago, but I think that we are just starting to understand that. We now can look at genetic make-up, DNA, even the molecular structures, the Quarks and tiny stuff and see that indeed, we are even the same stuff as inanimate objects. Even though we are all separate souls, everything has a soul that is connected to G(g)od(s) and God is nestled in the void.
The buddha's who wait to arise from Samsara to help out others to become enlighted ara called Bodhisattva, like The Buddha himself
But some of you are prolly wondering...
Lanou, how does all this relate to my dreams?!?!
While Lucid Dreaming, each of us subconsciously has a set of RULES that we predetermine our universe with. This is perception. This is also you, who you are, how you react to others everyday.
It is all well and good to say that "God is everything, the universe! Alpha and Omega!" But what do you think 'everything' actually is. How vivid is your imagination?
Serinanth, for example, has a wonderfully vivid perception of God. I can tell this just by reading his beautiful dream descriptions. Since we are all lucid, we all have an advatage. We have the ability to more fully percieve what is essentially the unpercievable. This can be good or bad.
It means that we can either
a) percieve a more vivid heaven
B) percieve a more vivid hell
~or~ (and this is where I am)
c) percieve a more vivid heaven and hell
This directly correlates to our dreams. What do we dreams? Great Golden palaces of eternal light, Dim dank relms of eternal darkness, Fearful fiery dungeons of eternal damnation? All are possibilities, all exist within the relm of consciousness.
So what I was getting at by asking the whole "GOd" question was to see, and possibly even make some aware, what everybodies dream perceptions are capable of.
I think that I am at a slight advantage that I would like to share.
Because of Taoism, I accept nothingness as normal, as quite pleasent in fact. Some percieve it as a hell, and this is only because they CHOOSE to.
In my nothingness in Lucidity I have managed to create worlds in my dreams, do whatever I wanted, go places, create things, and no ill harm comes to me, no more nightmares.
The nothing is also a Buddhist concept, and was even a Christian concept until Saint Peter called Rome to persecute St. Simon and the Gnostics.
So, those of you who haven't found the nothing, or are afraid of it, i just want to encourage it! It has worked to my great advantage in both lucid dreaming and meditation. From the void one can transcend time, see object grow and erode all at once, and open their heart enough to handle a much larger perception of God. It is quite amazing. I myself have only been at this point for about 2 years now.
I propose this: Try dreaming nothing. It sounds simple, it is maybe one of the greatest feats one can achieve though. It will help you as it did be defeat the illusions of everyday life (stress, anxiety, depression, fear) and replace then with clairity and a type of meditation power. And if you don't believe in meditation, just call it prayer and your on the same path ;)
Maybe not a Christian church, but perhaps the church of Blu? Kidding.Quote:
Originally posted by Blulanou42
Those of you who read the Bible prolly don't get to here this in church, but the Bible is a collection of many ANCIENT histories summarized for convienence.
I would have to disagree... Maybe you could elaborate on how the Bible is many ancient histories (I was under the impression that the OT was a collection of one history -that of the Jews and that the New Testament is a collection of first-hand accounts, letters, and writings specifically written for and to Christian believers). Canonization (scriptural designation) is still something I am studying up on... but the important aspects of truth in scripture still stand regardless of any perceived "convenience."
I think most people would have a difficult time understanding all of what you said... especially if they have no or little religious knowledge. I can definitely see the blending of Christianity with Buddhism -and paganism/shamanism? I have done some research on different types of Buddhism and several other religions and cults in my own personal search for truth... but still find that the the main thing that seperates Christianity from other religions is that heaven or "enlightenment" is something granted by God, rather than something that you can attain on your own. In other words grace (receiving that which we do not deserve) is GIVEN completely irrespective of how "good" or "bad" or "wise" a person is. It is not something that anyone can attain of their own will or volition -completely of and for God...
In a way I think religion has hurt more people then helped them. I dont want to offend anyone but the idea of accepting an idea or face damnation seems ridiculous. Their are so many wise souls with love in their hearts that are christian, jewish, mormon, ect. ect. why would they be damned for giving the source of us all the wrong name, and not accepting words on paper as the way to live.
Quote:
Originally posted by jill1978
In a way I think religion has hurt more people then helped them. I dont want to offend anyone but the idea of accepting an idea or face damnation seems ridiculous. Their are so many wise souls with love in their hearts that are christian, jewish, mormon, ect. ect. why would they be damned for giving the source of us all the wrong name, and not accepting words on paper as the way to live.
I think religion HAS hurt humanity a great deal as well... knowing Christ has not. He criticized (lambasted) and condemned religious leaders and "religion" and exemplified an intimate relationship with God in its stead. "Names" and "words on paper" are more than words on paper when their meaning is understood.
Here's a nugget for you:
"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.
Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have life abundantly. "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is just a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me-- just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this flock. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
At these words the Jews were again divided. Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?"
But others said, "These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"
-John 10:1-21
so what happens to all that dont enter through him?
Are you asking because you truly want to know, or are you asking because you only want to see what I believe...
:?
I believe the only way to truly get the answer to your question is to ask God and to seek him in earnest, otherwise I only have an answer that will most likely appear to you to be narrow-minded and or bigoted...
what is the answer the bible gives? When I ask god he tells me not to worry about it.
Matthew 7:13
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
There are many more references here...
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible
But we all are living and unless commit suicide choose life. this reference dose'nt seem to go with the other one, then again the bible is open to interpretation so maybe it dose....I understand that the idea the gate to damnation or sin is wide because are'nt we all sinners, so it needs to be wide enough for everone on earth to fit through, but the other gate is narrow because only jesus will need to fit through it, so if we sin and follow jesus we will not be damned? This is my interpretation.
I dont mean to turn this into bible study, but it's interesting to hear different interpretations, even if you are not christian.
That is part of the beauty of grace rather than just "life" in general.Quote:
Originally posted by jill1978
the other gate is narrow because only jesus will need to fit through it, so if we sin and follow jesus we will not be damned? This is my interpretation.
These passages are interesting,
I duno though... I just .. well what about some of us who have been given the vision that we are falcons or an eagle soaring the skies above the sheep pen, above the sheperd (and I dont mean superior) To fly is the nature of a falcon, but it is not damned because of it.
We dont use gates, we have no use for them, the closes thing to a gate may be a mountain pass that we may more easily cross a mountain range...
We may perch on the roof of the barn nearby and watch and listen to the sheperds voice, and indeed it is more pleasant but we also listen to the thieves and stablehands, we still return to the sky and watch though.
We can fly to another farm, with another shepard another flock of sheep those sheep would not listen to the previous shepaerd, but they listen to this one, listening we find some shepards to be more pleasant, some sheperds even use dogs, (I dont mean this as derogatory I think calling somone a dog is a compliment) The dogs listen to the sheperd, the sheep follow the dogs. Its different but it is not a bad thing, the shepard goes and tends to other things while the dogs watch his flock, they weill even alert the shepard to theives and try to drive them off along with wolves
But there we are still watching listening. I have noticed one thing though, when we speak the sheperd, the dogs, the sheep, even the thief and the stablehand, they all look and watch us for a moment, some times it startles the sheep and makes the dogs nervous but they quickly go back to what they are all doing.
I hope I dont offend anyone, but, this is the way I see things, I feel like I am just watching listening, wandering, I am not lost though how can one be lost when they have no destination, I do not have a nest yet, I am also seeking that mate, that I will be with for the rest of my life, and after that point, I will always know where that nest is.
I beleive we are all part of the same thing, whether sheep, sheperds, falcons, dogs, or thieves, and all the range of the diversity of life on earth, some have different paths than others. But we are not damned or destroyed because of it, how would we see the generosity and love in the world without the thieves and bigots? How would we appreciate the loyalty of the shepard to his flock and the dog to his shepard without the guile and trickery of the fox or wolf? Some may not be pleasant but they serve a purpose.
We are all one, and should love and cherish another no matter what path they are on, and remember it is not the destination that is important, it is the path itself.
I see time as linear, my memory may be shot to shit, I may experience extra time in my dreams that cannot be accounted for here, but there is a progression and a path.
I think If time were one instant, one conglomerate static thing, that we are duped into thinking is linear, what then would be the point in our seeing it that way?....
Growth cannot happen at once, it progresses along with time.
As for seeing into the past, looking at distant galaxies that does not mean time is a static thing. Distances are vast on a cosmic scale, light takes time to travel, we see what has happened millions of years ago due to an optical illusion time is progressing on that side of the universe just like it is here,
Just think if you were on that side of the universe looking at earth... it would not be there... whether you beleive the earth was created a few thousand years ago or a few hundred million... its all just a drop in the bucket compared to the cosmic scale of infinity, but we are here our planet and all its life does exist even though the other side of the universe cannot see it.
Actually, the only way you can make those passages meaningful is if you studied them in context, otherwise anyone who tries to interpret them pulled out of their context would have no way of grasping their true meaning. Jesus often spoke (speaks) in parables like those because our human minds are so prone to taking truth and adapting it to our own warped and self-contained meanings (relativity)... to try and apply meaning based only on the passages by themselves is to misinterpret completely.Quote:
Originally posted by Serinanth
These passages are interesting...
We dont use gates, we have no use for them, the closes thing to a gate may be a mountain pass that we may more easily cross a mountain range...
Not to bash anything but I have a two questions:
The church twisted around alot of Jezus words and added alot things he never really said,true or flase
Jezus was a jew, true or false
Just wondering
True, much of his teaching has been distorted. That is one reason there is so much dischord among the many Christian beliefs. But remember, Paul was also considered a major influence in early Christianity.
Yes, Jesus was a Jew