Thread: Dreamtime vs Realtime and False Memories

La Berge found that the perception of dream-time was roughly the same as real-time in an experiement. However, this is not to say that time dilation cannot occur in dreams. I am well aware of alternative sleep schedules (particularly Uberman) where individuals repeatedly experience time dilation in dreams once adapted; it is a well-known side-effect.

Well If dream-time is roughly the same as real-time, do you think some sort of false memories would explain claims of overly long LD's?

Originally Posted by nystagmus

Well If dream-time is roughly the same as real-time, do you think some sort of false memories would explain claims of overly long LD's?

I believe there are conditions in which my initial claim ceases to be true. I provided one example in my initial post.
I don't see how false memories can be mistaken for dreams, in the short term at least; can you elaborate?

I've also read about LaBerges experiments where dreamers estimated of the length of dream-time was about the same as how much time had passed to those awake around them.

In my own experience, the way time passes in my own lucid dreams and in waking life seems to be the same. I've never had a lucid dream that seemed to last for years. I did have one (my best one ever, in fact, by far) that lasted about an hour, which was fantastically long.

I have noticed three kinds of time dilation in my dreams.

1) False memories. This can be the trickiest. I will start a dream with memories from days or weeks already in my head. The dream can last only a minute or two, but the false memories stay with me.

2) Scene changes that make it seem like time has passed. Similar to a movie that spans 1 hour, but seems to cover a year's worth of events. These happen in at least 90% of my dreams.

3) Real time dilation. I like to describe this as the 'nodding off in class' time dilation. As Psychology Student said, it happens a lot from naps and sleep deprivation. I've had dreams, where I know for a fact I was only asleep a split second, but I just had an entire dream. These are the most obvious, because its easy to know how much of the movie, lecture, or presentation you just missed. This has also happened in longer dreams. I have had lucids that clocked in at 45-60 minutes, but seemed to last for a whole day of lucid time.
The lucid ones are especially easy to keep track of, because I can think to myself as it is happening, "How have I been here for a whole day, yet my 6:00am alarm has not woken me up?"

The longest dreams I have had, seem to include all three kinds of time dilation. I have had lucid dreams that seem to last far too long. Days, weeks, even years if you include the false memories.

I think that Laberge's experiments only show that a dreamer can keep track of time in their lucid dreams. Not that they necessarily always have to. I can count seconds pretty accurately in real life, but I certainly don't do it all day. When painting, I can burn through two hours without feeling like I even had time to blink.

I agree with pretty much everything you just said robot, I go through the same stuff constantly.

I have thought of trying to carry around a stop watch of some sort while lucid, and simply use it as a reality check in real life so that I would become accustomed to it. My problem is digital displays fail in dreams, so I have to find another reliable method if there is such a thing. I mean I think a good reality check is have your watch beep every hour on the hour, when it goes off turn on the timer. The next time you hear the watch go off, it should be at exactly an hour, that alone is a reality check. If you wanna add more in cuz it fails go for it. If you did this while lucid most likely it wouldn't even go off again in that dream, never mind display 1 hour.. But if for whatever reason it did work, it would be like a timer behind the scenes in a lucid environment, which I think is more reliable then focusing whole heartedly on keeping time very accurately. Problem is it just isnt that easy, and it would all still be taking place in your head,

I do believe La Berges study wasn't as accurate as it could of been, that was a very controlled experiment. Imo time is like anything else in a dream, its a perception of reality. Sure it may appear a certain way, but theres really no reason we shouldn't be able to manipulate it to a certain extent. He tried to keep track of a value that he knew very well and could control easily. Basically sat there and blinked/moved his eyes every second until he woke up.

I think its a little far fetched to say you could dream "forever", but I can defiantly say that I have some of my longest/weirdest dreams in the 10 minute's between the time when I hit my snooze button, and when my alarm goes off again.

I think to manipulate time you need to really get outside our regular frame of mind.. time "exists" everywhere in reality. Its kind of a constant thing, all around you. Its hard to get out of the mindset that it isnt happening and moving forward. Counting slower or faster doesn't change anything, but if you were to change what a second is... how would you count it? Would it even exsist anymore? How would you know how long a minute or an hour was now. What if you didnt know what time was, would it still happen?

Really that makes no sense, and doesn't mean anything.. so what. Does it have to match up? Why is it that I can fly or manipulate matter, energy etc but not time. I think we are just so damn accustomed to time that its hard to shake.

Maybe its just a matter or creating reference points in time the same way you would see sign posts of the side of the highway. Points in time you could revisit and then simply do new stuff this time around. I remember reading a couple articles a while back where many experienced AP'ers believed time existed on another one of the planes and that in order to gain access and control it you needed to be able to completely separate from the physical realm. I really dont know enough about APing to verify this, but I mean time is just another law by our standards, bend it or break it.. either way you should be able to get results in some form.

I think everyone can agree time can pass exceptionally slow/fast in real life based on what your doing. Its not that we're manipulating it or that its controlling us.. your perspective simply changes. Take a step back and just try some new and abstract approaches. Tricking the mind seemingly provides the most enjoyable/varied and commonly results that I would never have 'thought' of. I personally enjoy going through random doors, looking in mirrors, closets, etc etc much more then doing things like flying. At the end of the day I dont know what should happen when flying, but its almost like you "try" to fly, as where these other things produce unexpected/random results without any real conscious effort. Its hard to explain but your mind just knows what you might enjoy, or be surprised from or what you subconsciously desire to happen. I think this is just a taste of what it is capable of, but it shows the level of flexibility available when given the chance.