Is it actually possible to forget Lucid Dreams?

I have recently finished reading a fantastic book by J. Allan Hobson called "Dreaming - The Science of Sleep", which basically covers the recent research conducted into dreaming and sleep. It is incredibly interesting and I would recommend it to all of you who are remotely interested in the biological basis of sleep and dreaming.

But to my point - in the book, it is mentioned that we only remember dreams when we wake up in the middle of them for a chemical reason.* During sleep, one of the chemicals responsible for short term memory stops being produced. As soon as we wake up, the stores of this chemical are instantly replenished, which is why we can remember our dreams when we wake up in the middle of them.

However, it has also been shown that parts of the brain not usually activated in non-lucid dreaming ARE activated in lucid dreams. Since, in lucid dreams, our short term memory regarding the dream is restored, it is very possible that this chemical is replenished. This would mean that all our lucid dreams would be remembered.

It's just an idea, and I'm probably wrong for some reason, but neither Hobson or LaBerge have mentioned this in their books - they have only stated that some lucid dreams ARE forgotten. This is an area I would definitely like to research once I gain my degree in Neuroscience.



* I have spent literally HOURS scouring this damn book again trying to find the exact passage, but it seems to have dissappeared. I'm going to reread the book again, and when I find it, i'll quote it.

It's certainly possible. I had one morning where I woke up and began writing in my dream journal, and I remembered a lucid that I had forgotten when I was halfway through writing. Luckily I did remember it, but the fact that I didn't remember it upon waking scared me a bit.

Actually, it is impossible to know if you remember lucid dreams when you wake up. If you do, then you would remember it. If you didn't, how would you know that you even had it? But... remembering lucid dreams right when you wake up and then forgetting them later IS very common. Nobody will ever know if you ALWAYS remember lucid dreams.

From last nights experience it certainly is possible!

I forgot what i think was about a day because of my fa.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer 316

From last nights experience it certainly is possible!

I forgot what i think was about a day because of my fa.

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But you remember that you had it, correct? What I'm saying is that it is impossible to know if you "completley forget" a lucid dream (right when you wake up). If you completley forgot it, how would you even know that you forgot it?

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Originally Posted by puppycat

But you remember that you had it, correct? What I'm saying is that it is impossible to know if you "completley forget" a lucid dream (right when you wake up). If you completley forgot it, how would you even know that you forgot it?

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Ah right. :oops:

Yeh that is possible because a few times a memory has tiggered a lucid dream i had last night which i had no recollection of.

Very rare that happens though.

than how did you know you even had it?

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Originally Posted by puppycat

than how did you know you even had it?

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I forgot when i woke up but something triggered my memory during the day.

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Originally Posted by puppycat

But you remember that you had it, correct? What I'm saying is that it is impossible to know if you "completley forget" a lucid dream (right when you wake up). If you completley forgot it, how would you even know that you forgot it?

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I'm pretty sure that's not what the OP is referring to.

To the OP: It is common knowledge around these boards that lucid dreams are forgotten almost as easily as nonlucid dreams. Any difference in recall between the two is, IMHO, due entirely to novelty and not to any fundamental difference in the brain state itself. As I often tell people, "lucid dreams are still dreams."

Personally, I have forgotten nearly as many lucid dreams as I have recalled. Perhaps more - I tend to go through periods where I am lax about keeping up with my dream journal, which is basically the worst habit possible for dream recall.

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Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

* I have spent literally HOURS scouring this damn book again trying to find the exact passage, but it seems to have dissappeared. I'm going to reread the book again, and when I find it, i'll quote it.

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I think that you are mistaken in the exact wording of the passage that you are looking for. Nearly everyone is familiar with the experience of spontaneously recalling a dream hours after waking up upon encountering something that relates to the content of that dream. I'm sure you have experienced this as well. It is certainly easiest to recall a dream directly after waking from it, but this is not the only way that it can ever be done.

You can still forget long term--it just means short term memory is intact. If you wake up directly from a lucid dream, and realize you are late for class, I doubt the dream will enter long-term memory. If you have a lucid dream in early night, and continue sleeping after it, your mind will wipe that dream from your memory before the next begins.

But yeah. As far as remembering dreams as you wake up, lucidity helps. I wonder, if by lucid dreaming often, you could turn on the short term memory receptors during normal dreams as well?

A lot of times I know I had a lucid but I forgot a lot of the content. I only remember the start and end of the dream, not what I did. I also rarely remember dialogue in my dreams, even in my lucids.

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Originally Posted by DuB

I think that you are mistaken in the exact wording of the passage that you are looking for.

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No, because when I first read it, I memorised it's basic point, to tell people (since I found it very interesting). It explained that chemicals relating to short term memory, which are not produced during sleep, become replenished once you wake. Again, I'll try and find it, to put our collective doubts to rest.

OK - I've found it. Here it is as a direct quote.

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If dreaming is not interrupted by awakening, it is rare to have recall. Poor or no dream recall by many people is a function of the abolition of memory during these brain-activated phases of sleep. As the chemical systems that are responsible for recent memory are completely turned off when the brain is activated during sleep, it is difficult to have recall unless an awakening occurs to restore the availability of these chemicals to the brain.

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That's about what I was expecting. If you look back at your OP, you'll see that you wrote that "we only remember dreams when we wake up in the middle of them," whereas the passage allows that that is not necessarily the case. Like I said, more of a wording issue. I think we're on the same page. ;)

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Originally Posted by DuB

That's about what I was expecting. If you look back at your OP, you'll see that you wrote that "we only remember dreams when we wake up in the middle of them," whereas the passage allows that that is not necessarily the case. Like I said, more of a wording issue. I think we're on the same page. ;)

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OK... sorry about that!