Inelligence and DILD?

Something hit me today as I was driving with my friend. We somehow got on the topic of dreaming (whoops? Was that my influence? :D) and we talked about Lucid Dreaming. She said that she could do LDs by will, which didn't surprise me because she is extremely intelligent and usually beats me to anything I try to do. But I digress.

Then I started to question the link between intelligence and LDs. Einstein harnessed the power of his daydreams to question the laws of physics, for example. Perhaps intelligence is not the correct way to word it; instead I should say "people who use their logic center of their brain more often than not".

So, I was wondering how intelligent the people who LD often are? Be it their GPA, IQ, or their employment position. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by night_watcher

Something hit me today as I was driving with my friend. We somehow got on the topic of dreaming (whoops? Was that my influence? :D) and we talked about Lucid Dreaming. She said that she could do LDs by will, which didn't surprise me because she is extremely intelligent and usually beats me to anything I try to do. But I digress.

Then I started to question the link between intelligence and LDs. Einstein harnessed the power of his daydreams to question the laws of physics, for example. Perhaps intelligence is not the correct way to word it; instead I should say "people who use their logic center of their brain more often than not".

So, I was wondering how intelligent the people who LD often are? Be it their GPA, IQ, or their employment position. Thanks!

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I personally don't think there's a difference, however someone could have a more 'advanced' brain I supposed to you could say which gives them more control during sleep. I doubt it though.

I'm a genius, but I don't think that makes a difference.

No, JK. I actually don't think that I'm a very smart person. But a GPA would be a stupid way to go by this. Someone could get every answer right in advanced physics, chemistry, math, history, and language courses. Someone could get an A on their collage in a bullshit art class. GPA is really irrelevant unless you peer in at what classes were taken. Job is also not a good indicator. I don't know enough about IQ tests to say anything about them.

I generally don't hang around really really smart people or really stupid people. I'd say of all the lucid dreamers I know (mainly, my family and a few friends), we are just average. Educated, but not geniuses. I think it's more likely that maybe these people who were a) intelligent and b) lucid dreamers realized they could use their lucid dreams to further their knowledge and etc. and so you hear these theories about them. The majority of these people we don't even actually KNOW were lucid dreamers, and people like Kekule weren't even lucid dreaming (so they say) but this often gets misconstrued.

It would be an interesting study, if you could find a way to measure intelligence, natural LDing ability, etc., but I think it would require more insight into these things.

I'll keep checking around for more ways to measure this awareness during the day as opposed to at night. If all else fails, and I have the time, I might just write up a survey to determine if there is a connection. Right now I just wanted to share this idea, to see if perhaps this is why some people can naturally LD and others can not.

I say it's brain wiring. Plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

I say it's brain wiring. Plain and simple.

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Such that some people are wired to do it, and others must learn it? Please explain.

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Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

I say it's brain wiring. Plain and simple.

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Then why can you learn to lucid dream so quickly? Why are some people naturals getting lucid multiple times a night, and others just get freakshow lucid moments once or twice in their lives unless they start to learn?

I don't call quickly 7 months. (And a long 7 months they were...) But like I said, I think it's the way each person's brain is wired. Everything counts; A brain may be hard wired to have LD's naturally, while others have to learn. But the wiring also may effect how long it takes, the frequency...

On second thought...never mind. I don't know what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

I don't call quickly 7 months. (And I long 7 months they were...) But like I said, I think it's the way each person's brain is wired. Everything counts; A brain may be hard wired to have LD's naturally, while others have to learn. But the wiring also may effect how long it takes, the frequency...

On second thought...never mind. I don't know what I'm talking about.

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The fact that we still don't even know what dreams are is what makes me super hesitant to say anything about these things being hardwired. Some people learn overnight. Some people learn in a year. It took me four+ years before I found DV and I just didn't have the right resources so I was squandering time. Once I did, it took a matter of weeks to get a steady frequency. I don't know if I'd call that hardwiring.

"Intelligence is the power to be able to imagine." - Albert Einstein.

IQ test in general say not that much about your intelligence. They say something about your capabilities, which is a different field.

I don't think it has anything to do with your intelligence :P

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Originally Posted by Shift

The fact that we still don't even know what dreams are is what makes me super hesitant to say anything about these things being hardwired. Some people learn overnight. Some people learn in a year. It took me four+ years before I found DV and I just didn't have the right resources so I was squandering time. Once I did, it took a matter of weeks to get a steady frequency. I don't know if I'd call that hardwiring.

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Then it must be the subconscious mind. Or the unconscious mind. Anything like that besides intelligence. If intelligence was the key, I wouldn't be having LDs at all.

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Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

Then it must be the subconscious mind. Or the unconscious mind. Anything like that besides intelligence. If intelligence was the key, I wouldn't be having LDs at all.

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hahahaha
Well, ask any legitimate psychologist what The Subconscious is.

I don't think it's either. I also don't know what to think. But I don't think it is some lurking entity in my mind that makes all sorts of decisions I'm not aware of. Mostly, I think it has to do with overall awareness and circumventing certain processes that science does not fully explain yet and that I am barely able to have a grasp on, like the absence of consciousness during general sleep. But, who knows. I don't think it has anything to do with intelligence though, though I won't go so far as to say that intelligence and awareness are not related.

I'd say it's connected more to imagination and awareness as traits. Since people can learn to lucid dream you have to conclude that it's a skill. Anyone can learn a skill provided they are physiologically capable, and some are faster at learning certain things than others. I'd say people with high imagination and high awareness would be able to learn to lucid dream more readily, primarily because a high imagination would lead to more surreal dreams which may help in becoming aware that you are dreaming.

Sometime I wonder if I even make sense.... lol....

I started the survey here: http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...57#post1009957. I would love to hear what you think and any way it can be improved.

I think it is entirely too subjective and, like I said before, what you consider 'intelligent' just... is not adequate enough by my standards. :(

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Originally Posted by Shift

I think it is entirely too subjective and, like I said before, what you consider 'intelligent' just... is not adequate enough by my standards. :(

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Then what is adequate?

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...86&postcount=3

Maybe some research on what intelligence is, how it is commonly defined and tested, more legit ways to measure it.
Plus, the survey is entirely too subjective. Every anime fan with a tablet or person with a point and shoot who likes to hold it at weird angles considers themselves artistic. What the heck does artistic mean, anyway?

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Originally Posted by Shift

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...86&postcount=3

Maybe some research on what intelligence is, how it is commonly defined and tested, more legit ways to measure it.
Plus, the survey is entirely too subjective. Every anime fan with a tablet or person with a point and shoot who likes to hold it at weird angles considers themselves artistic. What the heck does artistic mean, anyway?

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Ok, so I redefined the question about artistic as:

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Question 4: Can you draw, paint, or write with attention to detail? If so, explain.

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This should offer more insight into why one believes they are artistic. Tomorrow I will do more research into ways to measure intelligence and/or awareness. Thanks Shift! We need more people like you for quality assessment.

As well...I'm tired. So I should be able to collect my thoughts better when I'm not exhausted.

I don't think intelligence has something to do with it, other than the "how to" of course. Also, the only way to test is with naturals, as anyone can learn to have lucids, it doesn't matter if the ones who seek and/or achieve it are or not intelligent lol
Its like sports, some have the talent, some does not, but all can practice and achieve a certain level.

I think it is not ridiculous to assume intelligence MAY have a say in LDing. At least, having intelligence can aid you in the learning process, and thus make it easier to learn how to LD.

I think what it is is the ability to pick something apart and find the source of it, how many of you can envision an object from the inside out, or at least think long enough about it to know how it works or have a decent idea of how it works. I think this may have something to do with it, where if you know how to dream and what happens to you when you dream you have a better chance of doing it well.

On third thought, perhaps it does have to do with intelligence, or at least how we are taught or how we learn. This is to say visual learners would be able to LD more effectively than a kinesthetic learner. And also maybe it just has to do with your childhood, since you discovered early on in life that you could LD you retain the knowledge of how better as you learn easier when young.

Response?

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Originally Posted by The Rhino

I think what it is is the ability to pick something apart and find the source of it, how many of you can envision an object from the inside out, or at least think long enough about it to know how it works or have a decent idea of how it works. I think this may have something to do with it, where if you know how to dream and what happens to you when you dream you have a better chance of doing it well.

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Which brings up the question of what is the LD rate of those who understand LDing so much that they grow tedious of this section of the site because they think they know everything thing about it.

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On third thought, perhaps it does have to do with intelligence, or at least how we are taught or how we learn. This is to say visual learners would be able to LD more effectively than a kinesthetic learner.

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This is what I would also like to know. Is there a specific group of people that can learn to become lucid better than others? Perhaps artistic people may LD better because they are more imaginative, or the group that has an extremely high IQ that can understand exactly how everything works. This is the basis of my survey, which can be found here : http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=72416.

Did I help at all? xP

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Originally Posted by The Rhino

Did I help at all? xP

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:) Any input is valuable. Especially since you filled out the survey on the other page, the more data the more accurate the study. Thanks Rhino!