Lucid Dreams = Lucid Trips? An Experiment...

Hello Lucid Dreamers!

I am new to this forum, Im not sure if this is the correct place for this but I would like to introduce myself a bit and then I'll get into the topic.

I stumbled upon this website while searching google for lucid dreams and it quickly became a site that I checked regularly for tips on dream control. I have been having lucid dreams for a while now, first time I can remember was when I was 12, and its always come relatively easy to me through DILDs (Dream Induced Lucid Dreams). I guess I am what some people on this forum call a "natural." I am now 21 and lucid dreams have become more frequent for me since I started getting more interested about them and reading more. I love lucid dreams because the world of dreams is amazingly entertaining and I feel lucid dreams can reveal secrets about yourself that you might not know you even had.

Now for the topic, Im not sure if this has been done/said/talked about before, I did a brief search through the forum but didnt find anything.

I have used Salvia Divinorum, a mind altering LEGAL drug, before and for those unfamiliar with Salvia it is a plant that when smoked has mind altering qualities. Ive heard the effects are similiar to LSD or Shrooms, however I havent fully tried those drugs so I can't make a comparison. What I do know is that Salvia induces a kind of dream state only much more intense, and for me at least, alot of the trip was like a frightening dream, just wild and out of control. It is not surprising to be scared since many people report, and I can vouche for it, that once on Salvia, you forget who you are, where you are and what you are! Its a trait of Salvia that makes many people, after trying it once, never try it again.

So, while smoking cannabis with a friend yesterday I had a "genius" moment, I was thinking about a lucid dream I had just had the night before and about how dream control was coming easier for me, it is then that I thought, "If I can control things in my dreams when im lucid, and when tripping on Salvia you are in a dream-state, then could I use my improved control of lucidity in dreams to take control of my Salvia trips and control them in a similiar way as dreams?"

So what do you guys think? Has anyone ever heard of or even done this before either with salvia specifically or any other hallucinogens? Ive heard that experienced trippers can control their LSD and shroom trips just with their minds, similiar to what we do for our lucid dreams.

I was also wondering what kind of interest you guys at Dream Views have on this subject as I will be doing a bit of "experimenting" with lucidity and salvia trips shortly, hence my screenname Lucid_Tripper. I would like to know if anyone is interested in hearing about my results with salvia so that I dont feel it a waste of time to submit my findings to this site in further posts. I hope to get some replies and any ideas or criticisms to gauge the interest level.

Thanks for reading such a long post and i hope you find this subject as engaging as i have. Please let me know what you guys think! :D

I would say the key to having a good trip on a drug like LSD or mushrooms is not to manipulate it, but just the opposite, to let it flow and just be with it. However, salvia is a drug of a different order, and personally I find it much too intense to think or do really anything while under the influence. I would say though that salvia had definitely improved my dream skills because the state of being in an intense salvia trip is somewhat similar to dreaming and it allows me to recognize dreams easier when I am in them. And, yes I would be interested to hear about your results with salvia.

Oh no buddy, salvia is on a completely different plane. Imagine the real world and dreaming are reality as you know and love it, then imagine dropping your lovely conception of reality into a wheat smasher. Thats salvia.

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Originally Posted by fy_iceworld

Oh no buddy, salvia is on a completely different plane. Imagine the real world and dreaming are reality as you know and love it, then imagine dropping your lovely conception of reality into a wheat smasher. Thats salvia.

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QFT

Same goes for LSD an Mushrooms, although each of them is way different, you cant compare them to dreams...
Well there still is the theory of your dreams being caused by DMT in your body...

If all our perception is dictated by the brain, why shouldn't dreams be like salvia etc. Unless you believe in the supernatural.

I've done Salvia a number of times, and understand that the effects of the drug have something to do with the overload of dream receptors. There are also a lot of reports about salvia (if smoked before bed time) allows for very vivid dreams, though I have not experimented with this. In general I have found the trips uncontrollable, though I would be interested to hear any results of your experimentation.

That said, controlling drug trips (ie lsd) is a completely different animal from dream control. like MrFantasy said, it's much more about going with the flow, and getting yourself in the mindset to do that. I can't really compare it to a dream aside form visuals. then again you cant really compare it to anything well.

DMT on the other hand (which i have not tried) is said to produce very dream like states, most commonly ones in which you 'awaken' in another location around a number of beings (soemtimes human sometimes alien or angelic) and have various interactions with them. I'm about half way through the book "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" and I am already convinced that DMT has something to do with dreaming and the brains construction of reality.

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Originally Posted by fy_iceworld

Oh no buddy, salvia is on a completely different plane. Imagine the real world and dreaming are reality as you know and love it, then imagine dropping your lovely conception of reality into a wheat smasher. Thats salvia.

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I don't know what kind of you dreams you have, but mine are nothing remotely similar to waking reality, and much more akin to "salvia space". I do have to agree with you though on the thing about dropping your reality into a wheat smasher, although there are different levels of tripping on salvia, that one being on the more intense side of the spectrum.

This is true. The after effects of salvia can loom for 4-5 hours. The after effects simply are feeling more relaxed and mellow.

I've had crazy vivid dreams nights that I have taken salvia. Make sure that you use a butane lighter however, so all the best of the active chemicals are released. More of these means stronger after effects.

MrFantasy -- I agree with you that Salvia is very intense, ive had trips where I completely black out and when I came to i found out i had been stumbling around speaking, or mumbling, rather, nonsense. Your saying exactly what I was thinking, being on salvia allowed me to recognize when im dreaming more frequently and im hoping that the reverse will also be true and dreaming will allow me to recognize when I am tripping on Salvia, though because it really is so intense i do understand that it is a far stretch.

fy_iceworld -- lol i completely agree with you about reality being completely F'ed up while on salvia, i have done salvia enough times to know how badly it screws up your sense of reality and everything in it...if you can even remember you exist! Thats happened to me a few times where I didnt even think i existed, it blows the crap out of your mind.

Nartrram -- I have read that hallucinogens mess with the parts of your brain that are involved with dreams and bring on a dream-state where you are consciencely dreaming, very similiar to lucid dreaming, at least i think so.

Funkmastaj -- Thats very interesting that Salvia works by overloading dream receptors, it certainly sounds convincing since ive always felt like i was having a nightmare while on salvia. I have already done a bit of preliminary experimentation with "low" doses of salvia, I will post what i experienced on salvia and my attempt to remain lucid while on it in this thread before the end of the week.

Baphometslayer -- I have never had the effects of salvia last anywhere near 4-5 hrs, usually its just a very intense trip for 10-15 min followed by about an hr or two of feeling "out of it" and mellow. I think you mean to use a torch lighter? The higher heat allows more of the salvinorin-a (salvias active compound) to be released, however i used a torch lighter once and the force from the flame blew my bowl all over the floor, never tried that again...:P

I will post my first experience with trying to remain lucid while on salvia on a relatively low dose. I figure i should start slow before diving right into the deep end. Thanks to everyone who replied to my post, check back by the end of the week if you want to read about what happened! thanks again :D

I have a lot to say about this. I almost feel like it'd be better if I just get your AIM screen name or something.

I am a strong believer that the reason I love salvia so much and can have such a great time with it is because I was an experienced lucid dreamer and dream controller long before I ever tried salvia.

I've done salvia countless times. My dream experiences have helped immensely with keeping it from going into bad trips. The very main thing with salvia is knowing to LET GO. Understand that it's going to pass. You're going to be fine. You have to be absolutely sure of yourself before you get into it. And be okay with the fact that it might totally rape you. And take whatever it gives you with respect and not disgust. You can learn a lot from a bad trip.

The very main thing with dream control is LETTING GO. Not getting overwhelmed. Just accepting.

Tripping and Dreaming are very similar. It's all about confidence.

Oh.. .and hello again! I haven't looked at this site in a long time. I never posted much in the first place.
I also enjoy dreaming and drugs. Let's be friends!

Lucid Tripper, the affects of smoked salvia divinorum have a relatively short duration in comparison with a tincture or chewed leaves. Also, Baphometslayer was referring to a butane torch lighter. Butane lighter and torch lighter are just shortened ways to say it. Anyway, I've also had this idea for some time. My moment of revelation came shortly after I purchased Rick Strassman's "DMT: The Spirit Molecule". I have yet to test this but see no reason why one could not control experiences derived from Dimethyltryptamine, Salvinorin A, or any other psychoactive substance for that matter. I am most definitely interested in reading the results of your experimentations and I wish you luck.

When it comes to smoking salvia extract, I'd rather let the trip take me where it wants to. The things I've seen on some Saliva trips I can't even reimagin in a sober state. For the super intense sally trips(the only kind I was interested in) I felt that trying to fight the trip, or trying to apply reason to what I was experiencing was a BAD idea.

The most I would interact with the trip would be to offer respect and submission to the strange entity that kept reappearing everytime I smoked it. (My subconscious maybe?)

I stopped smoking Salvia for good after my last trip, which was my 30th or so extact trip. (Got to schizophrenic-esque delusional for my taste)

Now I do the opposite you're doing, tripping IN lucid dreams. I've had experiences that have matched/surpassed Sally extract trips by taking psychoactive substances in lucid dreams.

Legit shit. : )

the subconscious mind is amazing. It can recreate any experience you've ever had, no matter how long ago, including being under the influence of mind altering drugs. Not to mention it can also easily imagine and create a simulation of the effects of drugs you have never done. Great for all kinds of experimentation ;)

the real world cant be manipulated like a dream no matter what status your mind is in can so the experience wouldnt be anywhere near the same

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Originally Posted by Lucid_Tripper

"If I can control things in my dreams when im lucid, and when tripping on Salvia you are in a dream-state, then could I use my improved control of lucidity in dreams to take control of my Salvia trips and control them in a similiar way as dreams?"

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No reason why you shouldn't be able to. I can do it from time to time without drugs. But you have to know how dream control works first.

If you want to experiment, start with strong emotions, which are hands down the best way to influence DC behavior. Go someplace with people, like a mall, and just quietly generate strong emotion to watch how people respond. It completely changes their behavior and demeanor. And it's not just people who look at you, it affects people who have their backs turned. The stronger you can make the emotion, the more effect it will have.

You don't need to be high on the diviner's sage to try that, although from what you've described, it might help. I've never really gotten any effects from Salvia, but I have found the Amanita variety of mushroom commonly depicted in Alice and Wonderland produces a mild dream like state.

If you try the emotion experiment, let me know how it goes, and I can come up with more control experiments if you want.

What he was talking about with the 4-5 hrs thing is on those incredibly strong trips (level 5ish) you still have some effects after like your head feels throbbing and you still have some minor hallucinations and a different kind of overall body sensation and stuff like that for a very long time after the trip.

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although there are different levels of tripping on salvia, that one being on the more intense side of the spectrum.

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Ya, alot of people who haven't done it properly, in low doses, haven't done enough to get a strong trip yet, etc. don't realize that the stronger effects are actually incredible. At the lower effects it kind of reminds me of the mush hallucinations to an extent but it starts to become way more intense and directly alter your consciousness and existence after a certain point like your brain's being pulled out of this dimension. I don't think alot of people have experienced the full effects.

You can kind of control the salvia trip to an extent with experience. If you're feeling frightened, nervous, sad, etc. the trip will be more dark, scary, nightmarish. If you go in without restraints it's much more likely to be one of those mind-opening trips. Also I noticed if you kind of "focus" on the trip when you have a high level one (level 4+?) and just relax and not get distracted by outside things (some people watch movies and this and that) the trip will become more intense and start to make more sense. This all depends on how strong of a trip you're having of course since sometimes you'll just get knocked out with those "break-through" trips and sometimes you will have almost no or very weak effects. (Edit: Ya, basically like the dream "emotion" analogy Cusp described)

I also noticed on those trips that aren't too strong (good enough that you still kind of know what's going on) if you are with a friend (it's not a party drug so not the idiots making noise and bugging you that actually makes the trip MUCH worse) you kind of start influencing what the other is seeing by talking about it.

Wow, i am excited that i have gotten so many insightful replies. Some of your replies are very encouraging specially the ones from those of you who have tried this before with some success, the ones about salvia being too intense are kinda feeding my fear that I will lose all control once im under the effects of salvia...but hey, im glad to hear both sides since im not so sure what will happen.
I havent had time to write down my experience with a low dose of salvia and i still havent tried to completely dive into it either (Im a college student and ive had so much work due im barely back on track :?) but i will have something for you guys to read by the end of this week. Thanks for your suggestions and encouragements, i am feeling just a slight bit more confident that this will work...though i might need a few tries :D

Newmoon - thanks for the whole lighter clarification ;) Also, i forgot there are different ways to ingest salvia so i should have specified im using leaves that are a 20x concentration.

Psilocybe Psychopath - Ive always had trouble "letting go" on salvia i always begin to panic just before i start tripping that is probably why ive always had pretty dark trips on it i guess. Any suggestions on how i could "let go" a little easier?
That is really interesting that you see recurring entities because that happens to me too! I know i read somewhere online about this happening to other salvia users but since then i havent been able to find this info again so im really excited to hear about your experience if you dont mind. The recurring entity i always encounter is a clown, like the kind you see at a carnival...so the scary kind. Its strange because he seems to be my "guide" since hes always the first to show up but its like he likes to play tricks on me and delights in watching me be afraid...are your entities anything like this?
Ive had non-lucid dreams where i trip on acid, i agree with MRFantasy that your brain can mimick certain drugs, ive never tried that while being in a lucid dream however, now i gotta try it. thanks for the idea!

Blueman18 - What??

The Cusp - I think maybe you misunderstood what im trying to do, or im misunderstanding you? I want to remain lucid while tripping on salvia, which based on my previous experiences is pretty much impossible. Im not trying to use salvia to have lucid dreams. Ive never tried using emotions to influence DC, actually ive never really thought too much about DCs when im lucid, they come off as empty shells and i just havent thought much about them but your suggestion sounds interesting. Im gonna have to give something like that a shot though i might have to pick a different local than a mall since i cant recall ever dreaming about being there...ever.

I also wanted to say that ive read on other threads that alcohol and/or marijuana will affect your ability to be lucid or even recall dreams, however, i use marijuana kinda really frequently(daily) and ive always been able to have very vivid dreams, very vivid lucid dreams, and a few nights ago i was drunk AND stoned and i had one of the most vivid and longest lucid dreams ive ever had! So, yea, maryjane wont take your lucids away! :lol: