What is lucid dreaming really?

I'm sure there are many of you out there that accept the definition of 'knowing that you are dreaming', though there are some (no doubt?) that have gone beyond simply 'knowing they are dreaming', especially those who have been experimenting/experiencing longer.


Dreaming of lucid dreaming, I think is often taken as lucid dreaming itself, and determining real control and awareness doesn't lie within the boundaries of 'I know that I'm dreaming'.

I don't know if I have 'lucid dreams' any more. Almost all of my dreams are with high awareness and I have control over them from an objective detached standpoint, as well as being absorbed in them at the same time -- a double pointed awareness which technically doesn't relate to lucidity at all.

Only sometimes do I say "I am lucid dreaming" and recently I have been saying that deliberately to see if it makes a difference, which it doesn't seem to. That said, for the beginner of self-aware dreaming I think that it makes a huge difference, because it helps with the detachment as well as the involvement.

Real control comes from detachment, real sense-experience comes from being involved, together they are what I call a lucid dream, not a simple 'oh I'm dreaming', which lasts for maybe a few minutes because people get so distracted.


The definition as it stands seems to be inaccurate to me, and I've had this discussion before, but I'd like to know what you personally think lucid dreaming is.
If you've had a lucid dream, then what was it like? Was it any different from a regular dream, and how so?

What do you think lucidity is?
And why do you think it is that?

For me, lucidity is just being aware. I know you can be fooled into it, but I feel there is a distinct different feel between the two.

To me, being Lucid, is when I'm absolutely certain that I'm in a dream. And my decisions are made on the basis that I am not in the real world, and can do what I want.

For example. I realize I'm dreaming, and then run and jump head first off a cliff, that I would otherwise be terrified of falling off.

I'm at the mall. I do a random RC, or just realize I'm dreaming spontaneously. I take my cloths off and go walking naked. Having fun watching the reactions of DC's.

Edit: I rarely continue with the events of the dream, after I realize it's a dream.

The term 'lucid dreaming' has a definition. It means, having a dream, and while in the dream, consciously knowing that you are really asleep, and that everything around you is a dream. Knowing that you are dreaming. That's what lucid dreaming means. Control and immersion in the dream itself are irrelevant, as long as you realize that what you are experiencing is a dream, and that your physical body is asleep.

The term was coined to refer to these kinds of dreams. There's no reason to change the definition, it has one that works fine. If you are having dreams that are not this, then you are not lucid dreaming.

But how many people really lucid dream then? And is it much grander to be dream-conscious as opposed to self-conscious?

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Originally Posted by ClouD

But how many people really lucid dream then? And is it much grander to be dream-conscious as opposed to self-conscious?

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Neither, especially since if anything that is just a matter of opinion and a whole different topic. It just means that if a person goes to sleep, has a dream, and knows that they are dreaming, they are lucid dreaming. Overall self awareness and reflection, besides that required in being able to recognize that the stuff around you is a dream, doesn't factor.

I have no idea how many people lucid dream. I would say a large amount of the world's population will at some point in their lives have a dream during which they realize they are dreaming and become lucid. A smaller portion will realize the potential for this and learn to induce lucid dreams, and a smaller portion still will be having lucid dreams regularly for reasons unknown, though many of them will be through many cases of having nightmares and desperately telling themselves it's merely a dream, then realizing that that is the case and waking themselves up.

Lucid dreaming, for practical purposes, is knowing that you are dreaming, while dreaming. It feels as if you have access to something closer to your waking self (with more logic and memory).

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I don't know if I have 'lucid dreams' any more. Almost all of my dreams are with high awareness and I have control over them from an objective detached standpoint, as well as being absorbed in them at the same time -- a double pointed awareness which technically doesn't relate to lucidity at all.

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I like the sound of this. A lot~

I've had dreams where I (myself in the dream) know I'm dreaming, but I (my conscious self) don't know I'm dreaming.

I had a dream once where I thought, "This is a dream. Do I want to become lucid?" I decided the answer was yes and then there's a definite switch to being aware of the fact that I was dreaming.

I think just knowing your dreaming isn't enough. You have to be aware of that fact and what it means.

Yeah, I didn't much like the cookie cutter definition either. It's much too clunky to pick up on the subtle aspects that are different from dream to dream. This is why I made my levels of lucidity tech to try and classify semi-lucidity. (Which is what I think you're describing above).

No need to attack the current terminology, though. I like keeping "lucid" defined as knowing to the point where you can say it out loud "I am dreaming". Not so much for an in-depth analysis sake (I'd change it if it were up to me too) but for an elegance and simplicity sake.

Anyway, LD feels like WL for me, just that I know the things around me are part of a dream, while in WL I know these are something else.

Only difference I see between the two (for me) is the knowledge of being in a dream, vividness and stability remains the same, control... I dunno about that, I never use anything out of the ordinary on a non-lucid, so can't truly say something on that <.<

I go by the same definition Shift posted, I don't see any need to say "I'm dreaming" in a dream though... why say something you already know, where only you can hear yourself? (Don't count disorders here)

Simply because the definition says so lol
And because there is a big difference between control, awareness, knowledge and creativity, I say <.<

"Fishing baskets are employed to catch fish; but when the fish are got, the men forget the baskets; snares are employed to catch hares; but when the hares are got, men forget the snares. Words are employed to convey ideas; but when the ideas are grasped, men forget the words."
Chuang-tzu


I think Lucid dreaming is great as a finger pointed for someone to follow a path for one's own experience of it. Words are only second hand and only about experience.

As the experience grows, naturally many seasoned dreamers begin to question the nature of their own perceptions & consciousness.

"Real control comes from detachment"

I think I like just watching in wonder as it all goes by, remaining free from identifying from the dream events while they occur- remaining as a witness, and letting them unfold.
Now once this is learned you will know how to try this in the waking state.

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Originally Posted by Mysteryhunter

"Fishing baskets are employed to catch fish; but when the fish are got, the men forget the baskets; snares are employed to catch hares; but when the hares are got, men forget the snares. Words are employed to convey ideas; but when the ideas are grasped, men forget the words."
Chuang-tzu


I think Lucid dreaming is great as a finger pointed for someone to follow a path for one's own experience of it. Words are only second hand and only about experience.

As the experience grows, naturally many seasoned dreamers begin to question the nature of their own perceptions & consciousness.

"Real control comes from detachment"

I think I like just watching in wonder as it all goes by, remaining free from identifying from the dream events while they occur- remaining as a witness, and letting them unfold.
Now once this is learned you will know how to try this in the waking state.

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:clap:

Well, I also have many dreams in which some part of me is aware that I'm dreaming. But the full comprehension doesn't come. It feels almost like a natural type of low level Lucidity. I think, it comes from being Lucid often, and doing a lot of awareness exercises while awake.

However, I don't count these types of dreams as true Lucids. I need the full comprehension for that.

Awareness of dreaming does not render such dreams as lucid; many of these dreams involve incessant action where one's only control is observation and thereby, poor attentional focus. Lucid dreaming, conversely, is the ability to choose inaction, to ponder, and to direct attention acutely.

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Originally Posted by Quark

Awareness of dreaming does not render such dreams as lucid; many of these dreams involve incessant action where one's only control is observation and thereby, poor attentional focus. Lucid dreaming, conversely, is the ability to choose inaction, to ponder, and to direct attention acutely.

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When I was defining awareness previously I was defining it as the ability to understand the situation and not just acknowledge that it is a dream, and thus you could make that choice to do nothing. I don't think control is necessary, just intention. I could intend to do nothing but not be able to due to the events in the dream. However, if you want to talk about levels of lucidity, then there should be one where you can intend and realize that intention regardless of the situation in the dream.

For example, many people have lucid dreams where they intend to do something, but it is hindered by the state of the dream. If they were truly lucid, the state of the dream should be insignificant since they are aware to a level where the dream itself is insignificant. My problem in those cases is that I wake up.

If you are able to come to the logical conclusion that the dream is insignificant it seems that logically you should wake from the dream. It is insignificant after all.

Lucid dreaming is simply knowing you're dreaming. It's pretty stupid how complicated people make it seem.

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Originally Posted by pojmaster17q

Lucid dreaming is simply knowing you're dreaming. It's pretty stupid how complicated people make it seem.

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I think some people are saying that if that's all there is to lucid dreaming, then we need more definitions, or we need to qualify that definition a bit.

Of course that would only make things more confusing. I agree that that definition is a good start though as it seems to confuse enough people as it is.

If we want to differentiate more, I think Arby's levels of lucidity is a good start, but I don't think it goes far enough.

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Originally Posted by pojmaster17q

Lucid dreaming is simply knowing you're dreaming. It's pretty stupid how complicated people make it seem.

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There's a certain point I'm at where I continue to have these dreams with the same 'lucidity', but have stopped differentiating between real/unreal dream/waking when in the present moment. (It's all real/happening, no?)

In times of binge sleep deprivation, even waking life and dream melt into each other, and with such intensity that memories of both get mixed.

By the standard definition of lucid dreaming, I am not lucid most of the time, but carry on the same 'symptoms' of lucid dreaming.

Mysteryhunter said it well, but I've seen more than a few people bite the finger instead of looking where it is pointing. I think it can be a hindrance at a certain point, and that getting too attached to it leads to dreaming of lucid dreaming, and not lucidity itself.

I look at it this way.
In waking life nothing is certain. Even the most basic things like me finishing this posting before i die is not certain. i am 99.9&#37; sure that i will finish this before i die but there is that .1% chance that i may drop dead and there is not a thing i could do about it.
Nothing in life is 100% certain. Everything in a Lucid Dream is.

Lucid dreaming: Knowing that you are dreaming while you are dreaming. Nothing to do with interaction in the dream, control, whatever. As long as you know it's a dream, it's a lucid dream. If you think it's more or less than a dream, then you are not lucid dreaming. It means recognizing that what you are seeing is a dream. No more, no less.

The true definition of lucid dreaming, I grudgingly concede, is "knowing that you're dreaming" (this is evident in the meaning of the word 'lucid', which is "clear"). However, I believe it's a very stock definition that does no justice to the wide array of dream experiences that can be considered "lucid".

My own personal definition of a LD is based on the level of control and the vividity of the dream. Sure, being aware that you're dreaming is one the fundamental factors of LDing in general, but let's face it: what fun is the knowledge that you're dreaming if you can't do anything about it?

That's why I've learned to tally dreams in which I'm aware that I'm dreaming - but have no control over - as 'false LDs'.

I think that being lucid and just knowing that you're dreaming are two different things...

I used to think I had lucids often. Like, every 2 days. Buuuuuuuuut... turns out I don't.
I use dream control, and my justification for having these powers is "it's just a dream," but I'm not really lucid... If I was, I'd be doing way cooler stuff. I wouldn't stick to the storyline of the dream (except in rare cirumstances) and it would just be........different. In my normal dreams, I'm like, "Oh, I can do this. It's just a dream after all." but when I'm lucid, I'm all, "Dude! I'm totally dreaming! Sweet! *Flies away*"

I don't know if I'm making much sense, so I'm just gonna stop talking now. :P

yeah I see a lot of debate over the level of control/consciousness and how much is enough to be considered a lucid. However there is one sure way to tell.

the split second in the dream when a rush of adrenaline, an electrifying matrix (1999) - like sensation, or perhaps for more experienced LD-ers the "cool izAdream! now time to do cool stuff". moment, after which you wake up without waking up.

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Originally Posted by yuriythebest

the split second in the dream when a rush of adrenaline, an electrifying matrix (1999) - like sensation, or perhaps for more experienced LD-ers the "cool izAdream! now time to do cool stuff". moment, after which you wake up without waking up.

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By that definition, a WILD wouldn't be a lucid dream :(

there's a huge difference between waking up and remembering a dream, and knowing you're in one a the time. obviously you won't be conscious to know that you were in the dream until you wake up and can consciously understand what just happened. lol You get the idea.

There's probably infinity levels of lucidity. I can understand I'm in a dream, but I can't do anything about it. I very rarely question reality in dreams. :( like, no matter how weird the dream is I just don't. I could see a monster truck driving down the street and not question my surroundings in the dream even if I remember consciously being awake and thinking in the dream at specific times after waking up. The difference between thinking and doing in my dreams seams as if it's impossible.

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Originally Posted by Shift

By that definition, a WILD wouldn't be a lucid dream :(

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yeah my bad- wilds excluded

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Originally Posted by Tweek

there's a huge difference between waking up and remembering a dream, and knowing you're in one a the time. obviously you won't be conscious to know that you were in the dream until you wake up and can consciously understand what just happened. lol You get the idea.

There's probably infinity levels of lucidity. I can understand I'm in a dream, but I can't do anything about it. I very rarely question reality in dreams. :( like, no matter how weird the dream is I just don't. I could see a monster truck driving down the street and not question my surroundings in the dream even if I remember consciously being awake and thinking in the dream at specific times after waking up. The difference between thinking and doing in my dreams seams as if it's impossible.

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Ah yes. Not having to wake up to realise that you were having a lucid dream. A lucid dream should be apparent to the user at the time; he/she should be aware that he/she will soon waken.

Still, I, myself, only consider WILD-like dreams to be truly lucid: awareness before induction, aware during induction, and awareness during its instance. My reason: if I were to describe to others the typical definition of 'lucid dreaming', i.e. simple awareness, then most people would answer: 'ah, yes. I've had those'. And indeed, they would be grossly missing out on something great. For they would, inadvertently, be ascribing their experiences as analogous to mine, and as such, their interest in this 'miraculous phenomenon' would decrease.