Mind conditioning- a real lucid dreaming pill?

right, ive been doing a bit of thinking on this and heres my thoughts.

It has been proven that the body can be manipulated into reacting to a certain change in the environment/ body.
For example, the bell and the dog. When a man fed his dog, once, he rang a bell. the dog learned that every time a bell is rang, food is coming, and his saliva glands would start producing amylase etc. Whenever the guy rang the bell, the dogs saliva glands would start working, even if food would not be coming.

That set aside, i move onto my theory.

What if you brain recognised that a certain change in it meant that you needed an LD?

Let me explain.

Working on the same principle as the dog example up there, can the brain respond in a way to make you have LDs when it detects a change? like, for example, if your brain has an influx of, say B6, it recognizes your need to have an LD and responds accordingly.

How? Well every time you take B6 ( or a drug which affects you in some way, nothing that hinders LDing ) you induce a LD. When you stop taking B6, you stop inducing LDs.

It would take months, maybe years, to train your brain to do this, but i think it is possible. Maybe not with B6, and you would have to be able to induce LDs quite well, and it would take a long time.
But, essentially, you would end up with a pill which, when taken, would cause you to have a LD without trying.

Maybe not as practical as it sounds, with the fact that you must eb good at LDing to train your brain to do it automatically anyway, but the theory stands right?

thoughts and criticisms? im sure there must be some. post em.

Absolutely no idea.

Hey,

Sounds like a "scientific plan" that is possible... but take these into account: Lucid dreaming is alot more psychological than physiological. The whole dog experiment is the same, the word for this is "conditioning" or "programming" ... now I tend to believe that the body doesn't need LDs, but the mind does. Therefore it is unlikely that there is a physiological reason we Lucid Dream. So your pill wouldn't cause a reaction, unless there is programming or conditioning behind it... Essentially your overcomplicating things...

Why don't you simply condition this: Everytime you say "I will have a lucid dream" you will cause a psychological reaction that will cause you to have lucid dream? Instead of taking a pill, make it a phrase or something simpler. I highly doubt there is a pill that can enhance (not lucid dreams: granted some pills could enhance dreaming) the need for them... because the body doesn't really need them directly, the mind might though.

Thats just my insight. Ignore me if you want.

...You know, if we were all taught since birth to lucid dream, i bet we'd be doing it everynight... It's conditioning that controls all of this, I think. :idea:

-Daniel

mm, i like the idea of conditioning yourself to ld, and either way is possible, though i'm aiming more for what syntex was saying... though, on what syntex said, i'd have to add that complicating the whole issue with the pill idea IS entirely psychological, and the reasoning behind it would b to help bend past what ppl generally want to believe...

i mean, society these days tells us that we are victim to the ailments of our bodies, which, in many cases, is true. but on the other hand, today it's almost a fashion trend; look at all the misdiagnosed cases of ADD, etc. then look at the idiots who think popping a pill will make them go down 3 pants sizes. as a people, we want to depend on something, i.e., pills. we're conditioned to do so. therefore, it's often easier to make yourself believe a pill might induce your lds, than bending your unconscious to the will of your conscious. it's just a placebo effect, no pun intended to that member.

but yeah, i think u can condition yourself to it.... i mean, hell, i've conditioned my mind and body to do certain things in the past, i'm currently working on automating a relaxation technique that i use when my disorder gets out of hand... then again i'm generally anti-meds and am doing so cuz i quit my meds... but hey.

Yep,

I agree, that makes sense. Just sad that society has done that. Oh and if your looking for a fast relaxation technique, I wrote one down on another post.. in case you interested. Its in The Newbies Section under "i need help relaxing". Or click this: http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9290
Whenever I want to relax now, I just say it, and I'm instantly relaxed. Good Technique.

-Daniel :mrgreen:

mm, i have a techniche that works for me; it's not a general need to relax, i leanred how to do that a good while ago. it's actually a kind of pain relief thing. i've actually gotten it so that it IS automated, it's just nowhere near as strong when i go out of my way to try. i figure if i keep doing it every time my pain reaches a certain point, my body will get better at doing it without other promtping.

I see, thats cool. Good-Luck with that...... I hope you achieve it in expedient timing. Pain sucks.

-Daniel

Shouldnt this be in Research?

Thats a cool idea damascus, we could set up an experiment.

i was gonna put it in research but wanted more replies before i set up anything.

I dont think a experiment would work out, because a body conditioning would take months-years, maybe to set up, let alone a mind conditioning one, people wouldnt want such a long-term thing to do.

i was thinking a mind altering drug like paracetamol could be used as the trigger...

Relying on drugs to do things like this would easily result in a bunch of people overdosing for one of those "fantastic lucid dreams". People are like that.

no i think your missing the point, its not the drugs that do it, it is your brain that does it naturally, you train it to respond to a small change which would not affect your health nor would it alter your conciousness, but it would send a signal of somesort causing your btain to respond with a LD.

hard to understand, i know.

The body experiences many "small changes" all day, it's gonna rely on those drugs to make the brain trigger the response

no, like damascuz said, not really drugs. like, literally a sugar pill. placebo effect. the point it tricking your mind into it, which requires either ignorance or a malleable will.

and damascus, i don't know about how long it would take, truthfully. it depends on the person, and how fast they can adust. a lot of ppl would take a number of months, some mayb years, but i know i can trick myself into that sort of thing in, like... 2-3 weeks. i'd try doing this (minus the pill thing), but i don't have the motive, and therefore the will u need for it right now.

neg, exactly!

TBH i really dont have the patience for a long-term experiment like this, i was just posting a theory. we would need somewone that is in ignorance of this, so as to use the placebo effect.

But i dont think ill ever get the chance. maybe i should send this to the lucidity institute ;)

the problem is bigger than that though.

cuz, see, on one hand, u take the ignorant person: they aren't going to know a damn thing about lucid dreaming. and then, someone who does, will know the pill's a fake. u need someone who can trick their mind into thinking it will do something, even while they actually know it won't, and not too many ppl can do that.

not really, a big problem, since we could take a LD4all member, tll them that we have a new lucid dreaming pill that you should take ONLY when you want an LD and give them a max dosage, then tell them they can only take it a max of 4/5 times per week.

That way the placebo from eating a smartie (not chewed,swallowed whole) could help to induce an LD whenever they take it.

you see my point there?

Quote:

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cuz, see, on one hand, u take the ignorant person: they aren't going to know a damn thing about lucid dreaming. and then, someone who does, will know the pill's a fake. u need someone who can trick their mind into thinking it will do something, even while they actually know it won't, and not too many ppl can do that.[/b]

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Ooh, nice paradox. *applause*

i see what you mean, yes, but my point is that they have to be familiar with having lucid dreams, so that it normally isn't too great of a struggle to induce them. and also, someone who knows a whole lot about lding is also not going to take a pill that they never heard of all that seriously.

solution: find someone who's both a good lder, and REALLY gullible.