Our subconcious - why does it stop us?

Hi everyone!
So I've been thinking recently: a lot of the time in dreams, if I suddenly stop and think, "Hold on ,this is ridiculous!" and feel myself becoming lucid, then my subconcious will 'talk' to me and do everything it can to persuade me that my dream is real. For example, I get false memories and history put in my brain, which can be confusing when I wake up!
If subconciouses can have emotions, I would say mine panics when I become lucid. Thinking deeper into this, it would seem like I'm not supposed to become lucid, that it's not supposed to happen.
My question is: why do you think the subconcious stops us (or tries to!)? Do you think it's simply because it wants to get some rest, or is it more significant, like we're not supposed to manipulate dreams?
Of course, I could just be rambling on here, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on this :)

I've read up on this before. It has to do with our ancestors. I think it's because we used to dream about certain things, and if we remembered them, it wasn't supposed to be good. So, I guess this is why our subconcious doesn't want us to become lucid.

Here's an example of a cat. If a cat dreamt that a dog wasn't in the yard next door, they could wake up and think it's not there. Something bad could happen to this cat, same idea with us a long time ago.

Know I kind of strayed away from your question a little, but I hope this helps

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Originally Posted by lucidreamsavy

I've read up on this before. It has to do with our ancestors. I think it's because we used to dream about certain things, and if we remembered them, it wasn't supposed to be good. So, I guess this is why our subconcious doesn't want us to become lucid.

Here's an example of a cat. If a cat dreamt that a dog wasn't in the yard next door, they could wake up and think it's not there. Something bad could happen to this cat, same idea with us a long time ago.

Know I kind of strayed away from your question a little, but I hope this helps

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That makes sense. But my best guess would be that your mind may not want you to realize something about yourself. Possibly a repressed memory or something...Even though that's kind of morbid to think about...It makes sense to me anyway but I like your idea too

My subconscious doesn't try to bullshit me. Either that or it knows I won't take any bullshit. When I notice something out of place, I know I'm dreaming and that's that.

Your subconscious is only yourself and it will only stop you if you consider stupid things like

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Originally Posted by CountessRebecca

or is it more significant, like we're not supposed to manipulate dreams?

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or

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Originally Posted by music_man

that your mind may not want you to realize something about yourself. Possibly a repressed memory or something...Even though that's kind of morbid to think about...It makes sense to me anyway

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no offense.

I think it was more to do with garnered knowledge...something like your ego trying to bring you back into the realm of what you already know/believe is real. It doesn't like the introduction of a topic that challenges your established beliefs and will fight back to ensure they remain firmly rooted.

Take gravity in dreams, for example. We take the concept of gravity for granted, so much in fact that a lot of people have trouble (at first) in flying while lucid - the years of living under gravity instinctively trains you to not go against it, so you have trouble getting into the air.

What actual evidence have you got for this existence and the fact that it's stopping you from anything? How do you know that this isn't a product of your consciousness itself and the way you go about thinking in waking life? That's what I'd put my money on.

This also belongs in GLD or Attaining Lucidity.

well in the book im reading it talks about how important dreams are and how they help you in life when you learn to understand them.. dreams is our subconsious's way of connecting with us and tryin to tell us things.. dreams helps us balance out our lifes and help guide us when we have trouble and need guidence.. regular dreams seem to have certain things happening and signs in it that we can connect with to help us understand problems we are having in life... if we go lucid while our subconcious is tryin to tell us something we might be messing up what its trying to say and just wondering off on our own and doin a bunch of other stuff... but then again i could be way off... in a way i believe that to be true... but i also beleive that lucid dreams can help us connect our selfs to our higher self and help us have a better understanding of who we really are and where we come from

So in short, none whatsoever?

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Originally Posted by CountessRebecca

Hi everyone!
So I've been thinking recently: a lot of the time in dreams, if I suddenly stop and think, "Hold on ,this is ridiculous!" and feel myself becoming lucid, then my subconcious will 'talk' to me and do everything it can to persuade me that my dream is real. For example, I get false memories and history put in my brain, which can be confusing when I wake up!
If subconciouses can have emotions, I would say mine panics when I become lucid. Thinking deeper into this, it would seem like I'm not supposed to become lucid, that it's not supposed to happen.
My question is: why do you think the subconcious stops us (or tries to!)? Do you think it's simply because it wants to get some rest, or is it more significant, like we're not supposed to manipulate dreams?
Of course, I could just be rambling on here, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on this :)

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Because of the inner fear that you may not be in a dream. Which is more important by default?...'Your in a dream now' or 'you may be dreaming'..most likely the default is 'you may be dreaming' so you are not sure if it's a dream or not but give priority to 'not in a dream'. The mind is trained to be in reality.

IMJ

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Originally Posted by brandon89lee

well in the book im reading it talks about how important dreams are and how they help you in life when you learn to understand them.. dreams is our subconsious's way of connecting with us and tryin to tell us things.. dreams helps us balance out our lifes and help guide us when we have trouble and need guidence.. regular dreams seem to have certain things happening and signs in it that we can connect with to help us understand problems we are having in life... if we go lucid while our subconcious is tryin to tell us something we might be messing up what its trying to say and just wondering off on our own and doin a bunch of other stuff... but then again i could be way off... in a way i believe that to be true... but i also beleive that lucid dreams can help us connect our selfs to our higher self and help us have a better understanding of who we really are and where we come from

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Books aren't always true. You know, for example, books on witchcraft, telekinesis, the Bible, etc.

As messages rattle around your brain, it tries to work out familiar situations, shapes, faces, colours, smells, texture, sounds and arrangements.

How hard is it to see that your brain works VERY hard to try and keep you alive? Your brain is designed to never ignore any danger or situation, whether it's a mirage or not, if you aren't paying attention to whether it's real or not then your brain will assume that it is and react accordingly. It's always going to try and work out a decent explanation, and often while your brain is trying to do this, you begin to think of the things which would make a situation seem more like reality, and therefore they appear in your dream.

I'm far too annoyed to read thread after thread of people who start coming up with all these impossible bullshit conspiracy theories about how their brain is manufactured by powerful people who have to make sure that dreams always seem real or else the world will blow up. Use your common sense.

i think that lucdreamsavy is probably right, ive been learning about evolution in class, and even if you dont beleive it, its obvious that there are some things that humans have changed and adapted to. i think that with the cat example, our ancestors did that and it messed them up so throughout time, our brains adapted to that. thats just a guess though :D

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Originally Posted by CountessRebecca

Hi everyone!
So I've been thinking recently: a lot of the time in dreams, if I suddenly stop and think, "Hold on ,this is ridiculous!" and feel myself becoming lucid, then my subconcious will 'talk' to me and do everything it can to persuade me that my dream is real. For example, I get false memories and history put in my brain, which can be confusing when I wake up!
If subconciouses can have emotions, I would say mine panics when I become lucid. Thinking deeper into this, it would seem like I'm not supposed to become lucid, that it's not supposed to happen.
My question is: why do you think the subconcious stops us (or tries to!)? Do you think it's simply because it wants to get some rest, or is it more significant, like we're not supposed to manipulate dreams?
Of course, I could just be rambling on here, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on this :)

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Hey there, just thought I'd chime in because I've had this happen to me also, and I think the plain and simple answer is because: you are afraid.

You probly been conditioned by whatever social group you belong to that stuff like this is wrong somehow or you deeply believe it to be wrong. It is all in your own mind.

I have a lot of things I need to work through also, this is one aspect. Only now, the 'no you're not dreaming' thing is now 'I am about to learn something horrifying' themed. Several times I have dreamed about 'learning the truth' about something. Like a month or so ago I dreamed that I was about to learn the truth about Severus Snape. I was afraid in the dream and he appeared and it was all very real and the truth part was that he WAS real and the whole Harry Potter world WAS real and they were going to make fun of me because I was dreaming about them and horny for Rickman/Snape.

Then just last night I dreamed that I was somehow involved with a Sandman comic and a voice said that I was going to learn the truth about the Sandman. The truth being that he, Morpheus or Dreams whatever you wanna call him, was real. I've been dreaming of some dark haired stranger for a looonnnn time before I even knew what the Sandman was and even once dreamed of a Raven who seemed to bring some dark haired man to me.

At any rate, plain and simple it is fear. I am afraid all the time. I get short rests and then it all sets in again and I am getting very old, frail, and tired of it. Might be time to call on Dream's sis.

It is your mind and the way you think, not a force outside yourself. If you want proof either way ASK yourself for some kind of proof that is what I am going to do.

:-)

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Originally Posted by tjw46

i think that lucdreamsavy is probably right, ive been learning about evolution in class, and even if you dont beleive it, its obvious that there are some things that humans have changed and adapted to. i think that with the cat example, our ancestors did that and it messed them up so throughout time, our brains adapted to that. thats just a guess though :D

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You're effectively saying that I'm more evolved than you because I can disginguish dreams from reality. Your theory is wrong anyway, because it would obviously be more beneficial for a species to know the difference between what exists and what doesn't. You're probably thinking that it's better for a species to have low dream recall. Doesn't matter though, because people have been able to recall and sometimes manipulate their dreams since the beginning of written history.

The only problems people have with lucid dreaming are caused by weakness in awareness, logical thinking, and memory.

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Originally Posted by tjw46

i think that lucdreamsavy is probably right, ive been learning about evolution in class, and even if you dont beleive it, its obvious that there are some things that humans have changed and adapted to. i think that with the cat example, our ancestors did that and it messed them up so throughout time, our brains adapted to that. thats just a guess though :D

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Originally Posted by Lady Grimbones

Hey there, just thought I'd chime in because I've had this happen to me also, and I think the plain and simple answer is because: you are afraid.

You probly been conditioned by whatever social group you belong to that stuff like this is wrong somehow or you deeply believe it to be wrong. It is all in your own mind.

I have a lot of things I need to work through also, this is one aspect. Only now, the 'no you're not dreaming' thing is now 'I am about to learn something horrifying' themed. Several times I have dreamed about 'learning the truth' about something. Like a month or so ago I dreamed that I was about to learn the truth about Severus Snape. I was afraid in the dream and he appeared and it was all very real and the truth part was that he WAS real and the whole Harry Potter world WAS real and they were going to make fun of me because I was dreaming about them and horny for Rickman/Snape.

Then just last night I dreamed that I was somehow involved with a Sandman comic and a voice said that I was going to learn the truth about the Sandman. The truth being that he, Morpheus or Dreams whatever you wanna call him, was real. I've been dreaming of some dark haired stranger for a looonnnn time before I even knew what the Sandman was and even once dreamed of a Raven who seemed to bring some dark haired man to me.

At any rate, plain and simple it is fear. I am afraid all the time. I get short rests and then it all sets in again and I am getting very old, frail, and tired of it. Might be time to call on Dream's sis.

It is your mind and the way you think, not a force outside yourself. If you want proof either way ASK yourself for some kind of proof that is what I am going to do.

:-)

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Jesus Christ...

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Originally Posted by Jimmehboi

As messages rattle around your brain, it tries to work out familiar situations, shapes, faces, colours, smells, texture, sounds and arrangements.

How hard is it to see that your brain works VERY hard to try and keep you alive? Your brain is designed to never ignore any danger or situation, whether it's a mirage or not, if you aren't paying attention to whether it's real or not then your brain will assume that it is and react accordingly. It's always going to try and work out a decent explanation, and often while your brain is trying to do this, you begin to think of the things which would make a situation seem more like reality, and therefore they appear in your dream.

I'm far too annoyed to read thread after thread of people who start coming up with all these impossible bullshit conspiracy theories about how their brain is manufactured by powerful people who have to make sure that dreams always seem real or else the world will blow up. Use your common sense.

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So provide some good research for your stance and present yourself well and educate them all. Insulting people likely won't change a thing.

I think its dangerous to carry the idea that you're not supposed to be lucid, that its some how bad, I mean, how boring is that? :)

when I first joined the forum, and read more in depth about lucidity - my dreams certainly felt like they didn't want me to be lucid

If I tried to fly in a dream, my dream would create a massive endless wall. Or characters would hold me down, telling me im not allowed to fly, not allowed to be lucid

the opposite couldn't be any more true today!

now these days if I'm trapped in a mindless non-lucid dream, a dream character (my subconscious) will come around and just literally tell me "hello!! you're dreaming!"

kinda nice when your subconscious tries to help you out :D kinda embarrassing when she rolls her eyes at my non-lucid stupidity

I used to get that feeling as well, that my subconscious was out to prevent me from getting lucid. On the verge of lucidity, it seemed my DCs would do their damndest to foil me.

Doesn't happen to me anymore. Probably because I've grown to detest DCs and generally ignore them completely.