Diffirent Planes/Dimensions/Realities

Alright, because we have been discussing the two realities lately I decided to ask everybodies opinion about realities/planes/dimensions in general.
I will first give my idea about planes and realities and some of you(lost soul?) will see that my idea about this very occult. I would also like to bring back the topic of the afterlife because there are many new members now. So please share your opinion about the afterlife, realities, planes, dimensions..here is mine:

As I mentioned before everything revolves around the giant energy core,which im not going to completely explain again as I did it sometimes before. This energy core, where everything is born and all life energy flows from supports the entire universe and all of its dimensions, we refer to the core as the Cosmos, while you might also call it God, but we do not because the cosmos is not a person.
We are all born from it and are once meaned to return to it. The cosmos is ever lasting as it will keep producing and receiving energy. The cosmos can weaken(overload of negative energy), but the cosmos can never die.
Now, build around the core of the cosmos are his several energy flows which all represent a diffirent part of the cosmos, they all represent a diffirent plane, another level of existance. All of these planes/dimensions/realms are very real indeed only most of us inhabitants of this reality do not accept that their are multiple ones, most of us do not even believe in the second one.
Almost all human souls will never get to see more then two realities, thats why I always speak of two realities, because the other ones are more or else unreachable. A few exeptions have seen the third plane..or perhaps even the fourth but further then this, I do not know if anybody ever reached that far, but before I go anyfurther I will describe the 7 planes that revolve the cosmos:

1 Physical Plane(our reality)
2. Astral Plane(second reality/dream world)+Sub Planes
3. Mental Plane
4. Buddhic Plane
5. Atmic Plane
6. Anupadaka Plane
7. Adi Plane

Physical Plane:
This is pretty much our reality, the one we are in right now as you read this (or are you ^_^ ) This is where most souls stop believing, this is all there is according to them. The average human soul spends most of his/her time her, that is unless hes dreaming, which you could also call astral projecting incase of a LD. Or in case, you die. Some say there is a sub plane called the Etheric Plane, which wields all invisible parts of the Phsysical plane, such as radiation and the like, makes sense.The Etheric Plane can be viewed trough machines and devices.

Astral Plane:
This is the place we go when we are dreaming, I refer to as the second reality. In my eyes the most interesting plane.The dream world. Although all us souls go there alot of us refuse to accept the Astral plane as a second reality. But it is not only a dream world, some (me aswell) believe deseased souls,spirits and demons also are here, divided among the sub planes. The sub planes can be divided in lower, middle and higher planes. The lower once are pretty much the place for darkness,evil and demons, it is were our nightmares take place and where we get assaulted in our LDs. You know you are here while al colors are dark, brown,grey blackish, you move slow, you feel tired and weak, your abilities tend to fail, you feel frightend all of these indicate you are in a lower subplane, ever had them feelings you can hardly move, you feel freaked and are chased, this is a lower subplane. Some say this is the place where damned souls go when they die.(something like hell) .
The middle planes are where we are most of the time, it contains alot of things the Physical has, schools,cities,woods,houses,rooms and the like. Most dreams are in the middle planes. Here is were your average people who are still attache to earthly things go when they die. (though it is not the permanent resting place, nor are the lower and higher ones,we do get reincarnated). The higher planes are pretty much a more happy place, with bright colors, you wil feel happy there, you will just know you are in a higher subplane, remember all those dreams where you just woke up very happy? You just came back from a higher subplane. This is where deseased souls that are more enlighted go. Both middle and high subplanes are inhabited by spirits.

Mental Plane:
Its very hard to get here and it requires great meditation skills, this is the plane where thoughts are reality where all thoughts come together I remember blulous divination topic, if you meaned this, the place where al thoughts fuse, then im sorry you where right, if you meaned something else..nvm ^_^
But to get here is very hard like I said.

Buddhic Plane:
Many say this is the highest plane that can be accest by humans, it contains the highest forms of energies that flow from our souls such as compassion,
wisdom, will-power, kindness and the like. Mostly the souls that can go to the actual plane(not just receive energy) tend to be (semi) enlighted.

Now plane nr 5,6 and 7 are said to be there, getting even closer and closer to the core. They are said to be highly abstract (7 the most) and impossible for the human soul to contain. Some say they are not even worth mentioning because they are so abstract to even get a grip on, whats your opinion on this lost soul, your pagan.

Now what I would really like to know is what do you people belief when it comes to realities, planes, dimensions? I would especially like to know the opinion of a real christian, such as you evangel, where do you stand on all this, I would like to know, as christian you believe in heaven and hell I assume, where do you think they are located? Are they in other planes/dimensions? Would be very interesting to know your opinion.

To start, my commet on this will basically be forged in my mind now, and it is what i might believe, and im not sure if its true to me yet, and it shall expand as the years progress.

I suppose that the most concrete reality is the waking one, the one that i am typing in right now...[and i dont want any of that 'do a RC shit :lol: ]
...and anyways, i have gathered that the dream world is created, perhaps an offshoot of the waking one, probly created by everyones activities during the night, maybe it can be described as a reality everyone can tap into, but at most i suppose there can only be a couple realities.

the most basic belief is heaven/hell/earth...from a religious belief

this is all what i have gathered, and i am not completely sure, everyone of you has your own beliefs, and i respect ever one. but i have not expirienced enough to believe that the dream world is a complete different reality...it is some kind of reality, of what im not sure...dont get me wrong i love the dream world, it is great, and expirencences there are great!

i just cant wait to hear what Seri has to say :content:

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as the tears cascade down your face, they turn to glass and as gravity pulls them, they shatter upon the earth like my broken heart[/b]

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Lucious, your theory interests me very much. I am a realist but i love the abstract, i just dont accept it so easily. I like to dispute until someone convince me :) . I believe in multiple realities because i believe at first that everything that exists, even for a while is alive. I don't really believe that the dream world was always a second reality. I believe that once its created in you mind, its alive. I keep my mind open because i dont have so much experience. So, that is a statement of my oppinion from the facts that i have now.

I have one question:

Did you found proofs for your beliefs in the dream world? If yes, how do you know that you haven't created the proofs by yourself?

I dont ask you these questions to dispute you, but to learn from you.
I can say that our beliefs are quite close but expresed in a different way :)

Like with all things out there, there is never a 100% solid proof, and all the evidence one can give are personal experiences. It is the same with believing in God or in something else, you cannot be sure, but personal experiences and feelings are the things that make you believe.

What I experience in that plane, the astral, the second reality whatever you wish to call it, which I by the way think has always been there, i think all planes are actually equal, and the beings there might find our realm inferior(as we find theirs, or even inexistant). Well anyway..what I experience there, what happens there, the feelings I feel, the things I meet. I never did a thing to make certain things happen, not even unconsiously I willed things, like I said before my control is limited to some personal abilities.

Things, which is say are spirit, come, demons come, the come with their own will. Also what I say is my spirit guide has given me answers to questions I could find the answers myself.

Also if you, like seri(sure you read his posts), make friends there, get attached to these spirits who time over time come to you, and you come to them, then it gets pretty real. When you come to live a true second life, it gets pretty real. When you feel you are truely at home, it gets pretty real..and so on and so forth

There are certain things that prove it for me, but those things a very personal, and besides, it would not prove much for others, it is something one has to experience and feel for himself, once you feel it, one will know the truth for himself. But I dont think the truth is for everbody, I dont think everybody is ready, in a sense. Its the same with believing in something, you just have to feel it..lets just say..you have to "see the light" if you know what I mean ^_^ (not that it is all good and fun over there but thats besides the point)

See my point is, I cant really absolutely prove it anybody, you must see for yourself, you know what I mean. Really I wish i could give some concrete evidence. Mabey shared dreaming is an evidence for some? Doesnt that indicate its not just up your head?(not mutual, but shared dreaming)

I know what you mean. Experience is above all proofs....i can tell that from the reactions i get about lucid dreaming.

Offcourse i red Serinath posts and i found that there are not only beautifull adventures but something beyond. I noticed though that all his experiences have a personal view. I mean that the dream reality seems to be based upon his own personal knowledge(magic, fantasy). What if he wasn't ever talled about these things(Serinath i would like your opinion :) )

I also want to ask you Lucious. Is there a way while you are in the dream world to make a transision from the middle planes to the higher or it comes naturally with experience?

The lower, middle and higher planes are not a place where you get stuck permanently depending on your experiences. Everybody, regardless of their experience or whatever, sometimes finds themselves in any of the planes. It differs, sometimes you are in the lower planes sometimes in the higher and most of the time in the middle. It is possible though to move between planes, what works sometimes for me is jumping trough the ceiling, hoping it will be the same room on a diffirent plane(weird but it seems to work sometimes). Or simply sitting it out, if you are stuck in the lower plane you will get trown out sooner or later, you have to be pretty evil yourself to remain your balance in there.

I think that there are multiple realities. They can be visited in numerous ways, ranging from dreaming/LD, and meditation to shamanic dances and drug experience.

This realities have certain properties, but the main one is the amount of "chaos" in them. Chaos is essense of creation. You can shape chaos.
As an opposite of fluid "chaos", there is a rigid "order", which is comfortable for everyday life, but you cant change it.

For example our everyday is established on the "order" and "laws" - we cant leap in the air and fly. I'm not saying that our reality is the most orderly one - there are still anomalities and zones of "chaos".

Then come lucid dreaming reality , where you have more "chaos", but you still judge it by our reality standards. That's why you will not try do make something that doesnt make sense. You will fight a demon with a sword/gun, not with magic . You will create some kind of protection instead of creating 100 clones of yourself to help you.
That's why I think lucid dreams are very close to reality.

Then come normal dreams reality, in which even greater deal of chaos can be experienced, and it's even more powerful, since it's not restricted by our judgement.

Even more chaos can be experienced by other means (like drugs/meditation). i've tried it, and words can hardly describe it. But i know it was as real as anything else... I dont mean just being high and seeing walls breathe and patterns on the carpet, but experiencing totally different reality with different time/place and entities.


It's hard to say that goes after that.

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Some say they are not even worth mentioning because they are so abstract to even get a grip on [/b]

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exactly - if you will see/feel it it will not make any sense and you will just dismiss it...

About afterlife: There must be some form of afterlife, otherwise your existence is totally useless...

Hmmm, I would just like to say I find this whole subjct quite confusing and everyone has there own opinion on it and so it is quite unsolid and shaky in my eyes, even in my own opinion.

Relgiously, Islamically, there is this life or reality, which is a test to see if you will accept or deny the truths brought to you by God. The way you live this life is where you will spend the afterlife, i.e. heaven or hell.

But then there is Lucid dreaming. Now, religiously dreams and visions have been divine to prophets and the like. There is also a special prayer, in Islam, to pray to God for signs or visions to help you answer or solve certain problems. Some times you are answered and sometimes not, all under the divine plan. I have actually tried it and thank God, I recieved a dream. That is another story.

I have also heard dreams are another plane where a person's soul goes during sleep. Think about it, in your sleep you are between alive and dead. You can't move or think, but your body have not stopped functioning. In lucid dream, you are more aware of this plane. You can learn to control it. Even when I dream about my house, in my dream, my house is not my house. Everything is not the same and occasionally I find another room or the entire house is different, but in the dream I still accept it as 'my house'.

Also, there my might be some philosophies by Sufis, an Islamic sect, that concern realities and the like. However, I believe Sufis have a big tendency to add to the religion which wasn't there before or is not needed and in some cases this is a sin.

Serinath i would really like to know what you think about what i said(look up)
I know you have an answer, you allways have :)

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Originally posted by Lucius
I will describe the 7 planes that revolve the cosmos:
...
Now what I would really like to know is what do you people belief when it comes to realities, planes, dimensions? I would especially like to know the opinion of a real christian, such as you evangel, where do you stand on all this, I would like to know, as christian you believe in heaven and hell I assume, where do you think they are located? Are they in other planes/dimensions? Would be very interesting to know your opinion.

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These are very difficult things to discuss since we don't really have the understanding or the ability to communicate accurately what other dimensions are or what they mean in relation to the our (corporeal) dimension. I believe that there are definitely many different dimensions and sub-dimensions, althou canonized scripture does not go deeply or specifically into the teaching of these things -and for good reason! I refer to God as a "person" (or rather 3 persons), and I believe this is the language that Christians are given in order for us to be able to grasp the nature of God (through Christ as priest and mediator). If we think of God as an ambiguous "it," we have no means linguistically or otherwise to relate to Him on any INTIMATE level... yadda yadda yadda. I do believe that I and others have been shown glimpses of these dimensions and that the writers of the Old and New Testaments atest to dreams and visions given to them by God. I also think that this topic can be utterly distracting and tangential from basic and fundamental truths that we have not even come close to understanding -especially those regarding our fallen nature (sin and death) and the love of God. It's natural to have a desire to look into these things, but we have been given so many other things to grasp and to learn on more basic levels -right here on our own little earthly plane -that we either ignore or take for granted. I am fascinated by the things that scientists are theorizing about concerning alternate dimensions/planes -especially since they are increasingly pointing towards realities that prophets and others have spoken about for ages... :chuckle:
:santa:

Oh, as for "where" heaven and hell are located... thisis another tough one. Jesus indicated that heaven does not have a "location" in the sense that we understand that term. We think in terms of three dimensions, so we think heaven is a place that is "somewhere" light-years away from earth, whereas there Jesus mentions to his disciples that "the kingdom of heavenis in your midst..."
"Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." Then he said to his disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them. For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all."
-Luke 17:20-27

Thanks! really apreciate it. I love getting other peoples opinions, especially when they are diffirent from your own ^_^

"I am fascinated by the things that scientists are theorizing about concerning alternate dimensions/planes"

Do scientists even believe in alternate dimensions/planes?. The way I look at it and desribe it is rather occult. Scientists dont really believe in multiple realities and planes, or did I miss out on something?
Or mabey the Etheric Plane I mentioned ( the invisible part of this plane )

[quote]
Do scientists even believe in alternate dimensions/planes?. quote]

I suppose "true scientists" would call it "pseudo-science", but I've heard of cutting edge studies and research on mathematical theories that include "proof" for THE PROBABILITY of at least 10 dimensions...

These are some very intersting views. I believe that there are other planes of existance, but I don't fully understand them, nor will I take a guess at how many there are. I can only speak from my own experiences, and those deal with the astral (the world behind the Veil), the Dreaming, and the physical (this world).

We know this world. Or rather, we think we know this world. There is a lot about this world that humans have yet to learn. I believe that this, for whatever reason, is our 'home' plane. This is where the flesh that houses our souls exists.

The Dreaming is, of course, the dream world. I call it the Dreaming because that is how the world of dreams is referred to in Neil Gaiman's Sandman. The name just made sense to me, and since humans love names, it stuck. I believe that it's separate from, although similar to, the astral plane. Being that this is a forum for lucid dreamers, I think that's all I really need to say. We're puzzling out the details with each other. :)

The astral plane is where you go when you leave your body behind. It's a lot like the Dreaming, yet you have considerably less control over the energies and environment around you. To be honest, I felt quite vulnerable there, and I ran into trouble more than once. Maybe it was because I was young and curious and eager for any kind of power, or maybe it was because my tutor in the occult found it prudent to teach me some things and not others--like how to transition to the astral but not how to safely explore or protect myself while wandering there.

I nod to a lot of what Lucius said in the original post. I, too, believe in the idea of the Cosmos as the center of the Multiverse. I've never had a name for it, however. It's the place where everything comes together into the All. From this stems everything... the ultimate balance of existance and non-existance, light and dark, good and evil, law and chaos. I've actually heard other witches call it the "Big Bang", after the popular scientific theory. Anyway, whatever it is, it is the beginning and the end of everything. Existance is a neverending cycle. Stop this cycle, and all existance ceases.

I think when I dream, I am actualy within the astral plane itself. Like you said about control over there..my control is like I always say very limited.
I also belief you are at constant danger over there..but the biggest danger is going insane.

Dreaming is for me the same situation as when I astral project trough meditation, I leave my body but I am in the astral, and not OBEing. I know because I have some minor control and it isnt completely like the pshysical. Well anyway I suppose we shouldnt go to deep in a LD forum indeed ^_^

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Originally posted by A Lost Soul
Stop this cycle, and all existance ceases.

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What exactly would it take to stop a cycle like that? I mean to cease all existence would take an absolutely exraordianry amount of power, a force beyond comprehension. :shock:
And imagine the void that would follow.... http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/c/confuse.gif

X_X , I really have no idea what in the planes could stop the cycle. I dont think any single being is powerful enough to do that.

Adroid of course its a pesonal view =) how we see everything is unique to that individual. My dreams do take on certain qualities, some of them I found in the dream world, my views of magic came from the dream world, also did my dragonic interests they have made me search out questions here in this reality. I also pose questions on that side and search for answers on that side. Each place seems to have its own way of showing me things and I learn from both.

The only thing I will say about planes and realities is from what I have experienced, I have a bigger theoretical idea but I will just keep to what I have seen right now.
There are normal dreams, usualy a gobbledegook of experiences of the day, they make no sense and such, I dont get these kinds of dreams much any more. And then if you go deeper into the dream world it becomes more stable, begins to form continuity, they start to make sense in terms of past present and future. Then there are dreams that seem... different, call them visions, these dreams are rare for me, I think they may be some kind of OBE. There is also the kind where you can paint your own universe, I have only experienced this once or twice and only on a small scale. Each of these kinds of dreams has a different... flavor to them I guess you could say they feel quite different from the other and from here...

This reality has been starting to take on a weird aspect to it that I cannot put my finger on, I got really anxious about it yesterday I had to sit back and relax remember my mantra, Now is real and nothing more, and it calmed me down a bit I just feel that the flavor of this reality is changing for me some how, starting to get more and more like a dream. Mebby I need more sleep hehe. I duno.

So in summary here are the layers I have seen and the order I think they are in.

Physical
Everyday dreams
Lucid dreams
Chronicals
High lucidity

Seri if I understand you right you are saying that your interest in magic came after your experience in the dream world. But were you a gamer before or at the same time you start lucid dreaming? Well, since I am not yet a really active lucid dreamer I will give you the possible explanations for the existence of the dream world from my point of view.

1) The dream world is a place that each of us create from his personal experiences but since we create this world and we visit it again and again, its reality gets as important as the waking life. This has a lot to do with the ethical dilemmas about artificial intelligence. Does an exact clone of human, with feelings, memories and thinking capabilities deserves equal rights as a human? Well from my point of view, yes. Imagine yourself divided this moment, an exact copy, witch is all that you are, will claim its rights on your life because it thinks that it is you. The sad thing is that this copy is really you. The only limitation to that is how a dream character can have soul, but I think that since you believe in another reality, your experience has shown you proofs.

2) The dream world exists as something solid. It’s a place that is made by the memory of the human kind or even from the memory of the whole. In this place time does not exist or as some may say, time is one eternal moment. The nature of things is completely different from the waking life; there are no physical lows or at least not the same as in the waking life. It is another dimension.

Now, this theory leads to two different possibilities.

A) This dimension(s) are really as we experience them through the dream. or
B) Since we can not experience these realities because of our nature, we create an environment that can help us to do so. In order to really adjust in these dimensions we should be really divided from are human nature ( Well that’s an optimistic theory for life after death :) )

What makes be skeptical about the second reality is also the power we have there. Why do we have such power in a foreign reality?
Off course maybe it’s all up in our heads but even if this is true, things aren’t so simple (see 1).

Well that is the possibilities from my point of view. Maybe experience will prove me wrong... If so, I’m looking forward to it.
:okbyenow:

First of all, the reason why so many of our personal things, like things from games and all are blended trough are dreams is because the astral,and the way you see it is party a projection of your true self and true personality. There is no such things is a solid location over there, its just an energy flow, a part of the cosmos. And soon as you enter this this energy will be subconsiously formed with your mind, and a location is created.

Alot of things you encounter are creations of your own mind, but still they are images from your mind the astral picks up and thus projects them for you. This characters have free will as they now temporarily exist as a part of the astral, and if you try and mind control these characters the balance is upset and they wont last long.

Another reason why things are so personal is because spirits and demons one encounters also dig in your memory. For instance if you have great respect for neo from the matrix a spirit that wants to give you advice might apear as neo.You will trust him. A demon on the other hand apears in forms we hate,fear,despise etc. Thus if you are a gamer a demon might apear in a monster form from a game. If you are a die hard christian it might apear as Satan and so on.

"Why do we have such power in a foreign reality?"

First of all its not completely a foreign reality..we all have multiple bodies that go with each dimension..phsysical,astral,mental etc, Its just that we use the phsysical the most that we think the astral body is something foreign, while it is just us aswell..and it is home aswell, we just dont think so because we spend less time in there.
And second, we dont really have that much control, we indeed believe we do, but if you go deeper and deeper you will see your really not that powerful compaired to other things..

Thats about it I gues..tell me if I missed anything..^_^

Hehe lucius ya hit it on the head there, the more I explore, the more I see and experience I realise how much more there is to learn, I havent been at this that long, there are things out there that have been working on it for who knows how long some of them are friendly some arent you hope you find the friendly, and run if you come across the other.

Well.. I have been a gamer since I was 8 im 24 now, I have been dreaming since I can remember, Not sure where I saw magic first.

I will say though...

The RPG has influenced alot of my abilities as well as my knowledge

Square being the most prominent, with the Final Fantasy series.

But I will say... they have been having to catch up to me lately

They must have a dreamer or two for writers over there. =)

Been stuyding dreams for approximately 10 years. Plenty of psychic dreams too. I'm intuitive most of the waking life. I've been yearing for the next level and got a taste of it on the night before New Years Eve. On that night I learned that I had control in lucid dreaming (LD before but never used control, I just let the dream play out and I pay attention) I slowely went into OOBE (which I heard is common when you are in LD to slip into OOBE) and I backed out, but did it very softly. I felt nothing scary or fearful until I started reading about my experience and getting knowledge on the subject and realize... Oh my gosh, there is another dimension! Now I'm learning that like our struggles in our waking life, there are struggles there too??? Doesn't sound like an inviting place, regardless of it's rewards. Life is hard enough when you are awake (which is most of your life) but who wants it when you are sleeping too? This is just how I am feeling now. I may change as the fear of what just happened to me subsides.

but the post Iread about "what do you do now with what you know? Ignor it? Refuse to believe it exists" I think people have these experiences because they need to fill that "void" that we all come to spiritually in our lives. If you walk away, you are going to remain unfullfilled and empty. Embrace it and you will become "whole" or at least getting closer to being whole.

I still don't understand all of this. This is my first post and I find reading messages on this board very helpful. Please share with me, how and when you decided to "take it to the next level". What made you decide to move ahead if you have.

Thank you and blessed be!

IMO once you grasp what's out there (dreams, other realities, etc), you will never be able to come back. You will want to explore.

One good thing about dreams (at least mine) - you can never lose.

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I still don't understand all of this. This is my first post and I find reading messages on this board very helpful. Please share with me, how and when you decided to \"take it to the next level\". What made you decide to move ahead if you have.
[/b]

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Not having enough fun in "real" life, real life's limits and boundaries...

I win in alot of my dreams, but I also loose, I learn more from those dreams actually

Thanks for sharing your opinions guys
:cheers:

Blissfull

Do NOT walk away from it... seriously, a very good friend of mine, has the vision, but he refuses to accept it.. and now he is kinda empty

it is frightening... but there is so much, so much more than this waking world and you will come to understand, and the fear subsides and it becomes a thirst, a thirst for more wanting to understand more....

If youve any questions ask us, we have alot of different views here, but everyone is respectfull of that, your bound to come across something that works for you =)

Seri- I know its a little late for this post, but I thought i would comment on the way you believe the layers are ordered in the area of realities...
and I agree! it makes so much sense. :cheers:

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Blessed is she who clearly sees the wood for the trees.
To obtain a ‘bird’s eye’ is to turn a blizzard into a breeze.[/b]

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