Another "false" lucid?

My dream is here. If you don't want to read the whole thing, just read the last paragraph of the dream section.

I noticed I was dreaming, and immediately tried spinning around, which improved the clarity a bit. I almost ran and started trying to do dream things, but I stopped myself and told myself I had time. I then tried rubbing my hands together, and very quickly experienced the "floating out of a dream" feeling that woke me up.

I definitely did not become lucid from releasing I was dreaming. When I spun and things became a bit clearer, I don't think I was lucid. I believe that's similar to the time I found out I was dreaming and it became easier to run. My subconscious brain is sort of saying "remember what's supposed to happen? Let's make that happen", and doing what it thinks should happen when I do these things.

HOWEVER, when I rubbed my hands together, I felt nothing, but immediately woke up.

Spoiler for Theories:

My theory is that I became lucid, or was becoming lucid, for a second, which woke me up. My theory on the wake-up is that my conscious brain thinks I should be awake at 4:00 PM anyway, so once my conscious brain woke up, my body sort of got into wake-up mode anyway.

Please only read my theories after formulating your own; that way, I can avoid people getting influenced by mine.

But I don't really have the experience to make any concrete theories, so does anybody else have any ideas as to what happened? Whether it was a false lucid the entire time, or if I became lucid at the end?

Thanks

Are you sure you have the correct definition of lucid?

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I noticed I was dreaming

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You were lucid.
When you know you are dreaming, you have attained lucidity. No matter how vivid or powerful it is, it's lusid.

All this 'false lucidity' junk is just a bunch of misinformation, and over-complicating things. It doesn't have to be rocket science.

You are doubting.

as I can see, you are the one who is saying that didn't feel lucid nor any change.
the moment you rubbed your hands and woke up doesn't mean anything.
I mean, you didn't have time to become lucid on that little lapse, so no, itsn't a lucid dream.

as I can see, it's like you were acting in auto-pilot mode (non-lucid)
I told to you, the moment you become lucid , no matter the level of lucidity or clarity, you will come to this forum and say "Hey! I had a lucid dream!"

what's your reality check? and how do you do it?

bye!


EDIT:

no-name is right, but is wrong too.
the definition of lucid is "KNOW YOU ARE DREAMING" (when you know it YOU HAVE NO DOUBT)
but, as I can see, you only "noticed" that you were dreaming(this happened to me a lot, I'm in a dream, I "notice" I am dreaming, and start to do stabilization techniques and all of that, but I'm not lucid)
I mean, it was part of the dream that you "noticed" you were dreaming.
The point is to realize that when you notice you are dreaming, you MUST REALLY NOTICE you are dreaming, not still dreaming about that. you understand?

and, no-Name, False Lucidity is not misinformation, is just "dreaming that you are lucid", so non-lucid
if not happened to you then doesn't mean is junk and that's false, it happened to a lot of people.

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Originally Posted by no-Name

Are you sure you have the correct definition of lucid?

You were lucid.
When you know you are dreaming, you have attained lucidity. No matter how vivid or powerful it is, it's lusid.

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Arguments of this nature have been had before. My definition of "lucid" is "conscious". It may be incorrect usage, but it's rather common usage. I was "lucid", but not "conscious".


Mariano: How do I avoid doubt? How do I get rid of something my brain tells me is true? I was going to reality check after trying the stabilization techniques. My reality check is usually to plug my nose and check if I'm breathing, and to check my hands. My last reality check is to try and do something that can only be done in a dream, like turn on a light with my mind.

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Originally Posted by Mariano

You are doubting.

as I can see, you are the one who is saying that didn't feel lucid nor any change.
the moment you rubbed your hands and woke up doesn't mean anything.
I mean, you didn't have time to become lucid on that little lapse, so no, itsn't a lucid dream.

as I can see, it's like you were acting in auto-pilot mode (non-lucid)
I told to you, the moment you become lucid , no matter the level of lucidity or clarity, you will come to this forum and say "Hey! I had a lucid dream!"

what's your reality check? and how do you do it?

bye!

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...I'm sorry, and I mean no disrespect, but that's absolutely ridiculous.

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you didn't have time to become lucid on that little lapse

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How can someone not have enough time to realize they are dreaming? He was lucid from the start.

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I told to you, the moment you become lucid , no matter the level of lucidity or clarity, you will come to this forum and say "Hey! I had a lucid dream!"

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Again, ridiculous. It's not always a vivid thing. :\

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Originally Posted by RobotGymnast

Arguments of this nature have been had before. My definition of "lucid" is "conscious". It may be incorrect usage, but it's rather common usage. I was "lucid", but not "conscious".

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So you're telling me that your definition of lucid is different from everyone else.That is most definitely incorrect.

no-name is right, but is wrong too.
the definition of lucid is "KNOW YOU ARE DREAMING" (when you know it YOU HAVE NO DOUBT)
but, as I can see, you only "noticed" that you were dreaming(this happened to me a lot, I'm in a dream, I "notice" I am dreaming, and start to do stabilization techniques and all of that, but I'm not lucid)
I mean, it was part of the dream that you "noticed" you were dreaming.
The point is to realize that when you notice you are dreaming, you MUST REALLY NOTICE you are dreaming, not still dreaming about that. you understand?

and, no-Name, False Lucidity is not misinformation, is just "dreaming that you are lucid", so non-lucid
if not happened to you then doesn't mean is junk and that's false, it happened to a lot of people.

NN, don't even bother wasting your time with these two. I've argued about exactly the same thing with them in 2 other topics. They don't know what they are talking about.

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Originally Posted by no-Name

So you're telling me that your definition of lucid is different from everyone else.That is most definitely incorrect.

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No. Many, many people have this definition. I can easily be aware that I'm dreaming, or that I'm omnipotent, without being conscious. I am trying to achieve consciousness, not lucidity. Lucidity's very, very easy to achieve.

you guys are being stupid. if he wants to call a dream where he dreamed he was lucid and actually wasn't, a semi-lucid or a false lucid, he can. you have different definitions, nobody is wrong.

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Originally Posted by RobotGymnast

No. Many, many people have this definition. I can easily be aware that I'm dreaming, or that I'm omnipotent, without being conscious. I am trying to achieve consciousness, not lucidity. Lucidity's very, very easy to achieve.

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*facepalm*

So you agree that it's not a false lucid then? Good, then change the topic title into: HOW CAN I GET BETTER DREAMCONTROL? Because that's exactly what ALL your stupid topics are about. I'm done with you two now. From now on I'll officially refrain from posting in any topics created by Robotgymnast or Mariano.

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Originally Posted by Mariano

and, no-Name, False Lucidity is not misinformation, is just "dreaming that you are lucid", so non-lucid
if not happened to you then doesn't mean is junk and that's false, it happened to a lot of people.

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terms like "false lucidity" just complicate things. Sure it may be something we've all experienced one time or another....but just call it a normal dream to simplify things for the rest of this community. No one wants to accept terminology like that because it only adds to the complexity. Pretty soon there's going to be false lucid induction techniques if we keep crap like this up.

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Originally Posted by XeL

*facepalm*

So you agree that it's not a false lucid then? Good, then change the topic title into: HOW CAN I GET BETTER DREAMCONTROL? Because that's exactly what ALL your stupid topics are about. I'm done with you two now. From now on I'll officially refrain from posting in any topics created by Robotgymnast or Mariano.

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As I said, I'm using the term "lucid" as oppose to "conscious". If I meant "lucid" by definition, then yes, I would agree it was not a false lucid. If I used "lucid" just to mean "aware that I was dreaming", then "false lucid" would only be possible when awake. However, I would like to establish that I was not conscious during this dream, and am wondering about specifics and theories as to why. My dream control itself is rather good, but, as I said, NOT WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. I want to be conscious.

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terms like "false lucidity" just complicate things. Sure it may be something we've all experienced one time or another....but just call it a normal dream to simplify things for the rest of this community. No one wants to accept terminology like that because it only adds to the complexity. Pretty soon there's going to be false lucid induction techniques if we keep crap like this up.

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OMGZORS! I INDUCED FALSE LUCIDZ ONCEZ!
.. I see what you mean :P
All kidding aside, I see your point, but I can sort of see Mariano's too

sorry, I don't want you to fight.

robotgymnast, if it's my fault giving you that definition, then really excuse me.
Lucid dreaming is becoming aware that you are dreaming.

Lucidity and Conscious go in the same hand.
Non-lucid = Unconscious (auto-pilot mode)
Lucid = Conscious (you know...)

XEL:

he is not lucid dreaming, he is still dreaming being non-lucid, and he knows that, because when he talks about he controlling his dreams he talks like he is unconscious and not a BEATIFUL experience like a lucid dream is.

I would say that control doesn't mean too much in a dream, because if you are controlling the dream, you can do it in a conscious or in a unconscious(auto-pilot mode) way.

there are non-lucid dreams without control
there are non-lucid dreams with control(you have unconscious control)
there are lucid dreams without control(of certain things, like flying, also walking, or talking...)
there are lucid dreams with control(have fun! this is conscious control)

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From now on I'll officially refrain from posting in any topics created by Robotgymnast or Mariano.

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that won't help too much, but you are free of doing anything.

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terms like "false lucidity" just complicate things.

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are you sure?
I don't think so, it's just a new term.
then if new terms complicate things, why do we call "nightmares" to bad dreams?
why don't we call them just bad dreams..?
is the same thing...

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Pretty soon there's going to be false lucid induction techniques if we keep crap like this up.

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no there is not going to, a False Lucid Dream is just a non-lucid dream, with different feelings, equally as a vivid non-lucid dream, or a non-lucid nightmare , they are still non-lucid.
People just have to learn to differenciate "being aware of dreaming", and "dreaming that being aware of dreaming"
and that difference can only be felt, not too explained.....

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Originally Posted by Mariano

robotgymnast, if it's my fault giving you that definition, then really excuse me. Lucid dreaming is becoming aware that you are dreaming.

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No, you didn't, but thank you. Although my dreams are technically lucid, they still remain not conscious.

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Originally Posted by Mariano

are you sure?
I don't think so, it's just a new term.
then if new terms complicate things, why do we call "nightmares" to bad dreams?
why don't we call them just bad dreams..?
is the same thing...

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I'm pretty sure he was making a bit of an exaggeration, Mariano.

I still cannot wake my conscious mind. I still have doubt, which, I believe, is my main problem. How do I get rid of doubt?

I think we can only draw one conclusion from all posts I've seen from Mariano and Robotgymnast... They possess some sort of inhuman power that is beyond our understanding. They should both be sent to a sleep lab immediately for their extraordinary abilities!

RobotGymnast you are not reading me.

Lucidity and Conscious go in the same hand.
Non-lucid = Unconscious (auto-pilot mode)(Conscious mode OFF)
Lucid = Conscious (you know...)(Conscious mode ON)


I said to you what's happening...
by the way, see this http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...83#post1139883
It could help you understand what I'm saying.

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I still cannot wake my conscious mind. I still have doubt, which, I believe, is my main problem. How do I get rid of doubt?

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about this...
when your conscious mind wake in a dream...you become lucid, or viceversa...
when you become lucid you wake you conscious mind..
WHY?
because in dreams, consciousness and lucidity is the same!
"hey I had a Lucid/Conscious dream last night" this means he was aware that she/he was dreaming.

doubt?
doubt is just a conclusion, when you become lucid you will have no doubt about it, it's not about changing doubt to become lucid!...

so, again, you are having non-lucid dreams, with control.
you are not lucid.

practice all the methods here, reality check, just do everything to become lucid.

what you are having are simply non-lucid dreams in where the plot is based on you knowing you are dreaming (or False Lucid Dreams), this means, YOU(and your actions)are still controlled by the dream, that means, again, being non-lucid.

so, one last ime, you are having non-lucid dreams with control(you have unconscious control)
which is something that already almost everybody of us have in dreams (while flying, killing, etc being non-lucid)

practice lucidity, once you do that, you will be able to furthermore control your dreams easily(if you can do it non-lucid, I'm sure that lucid will be easier and more satisfying)

bye

EDIT : AH!

Xel : you are acting like a child, if you are not going to say something that merely has to be readed, then don't write/say anything. at least, try to help robotgymnast, instead of closing your mind, blocking your eyes and ears.
if you never experienced a False Lucid Dream that doesn't mean doesn't exists....

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Originally Posted by XeL

I think we can only draw one conclusion from all posts I've seen from Mariano and Robotgymnast... They possess some sort of inhuman power that is beyond our understanding. They should both be sent to a sleep lab immediately for their extraordinary abilities!

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Actually, sorry to disappoint you, but I have a great respect for their posts, as they seem to mirror my own way of thinking mostly. Ok, I'm still trying to get my head around the different descriptions of what "being Lucid in a dream" actually is.

My own stance is similar to that of Mariano, in that to be truly lucid you have to consciously know that you're dreaming , and not just be in a dream and see something strange and then declare " I'm dreaming". This could just be the unconscious mind deciding that statement.

Think of these two definitions of lucidity and then decide which makes more sense.

1. The state of being aware that one is dreaming; The state of being in a lucid dream.

or my prefered one.

2.free from obscurity and easy to understand; the comprehensibility of clear expression
a lucid state of mind; not confused

Xel: first of all, that ban on posting in threads created by us lasted a VERY long time. That must've been at least a few minutes.

I don't know to which "inhuman power" you refer, but.. I guess I'm flattered. Thanks.


Mariano/Elkfazer: Exactly. I can say "I'm dreaming, because I get that from my intuition. However, I fail to consciously grasp what it really means, despite my gut having an understanding of it (which is my subconscious mind), so it's just really meaningless words. It usually leads to something changing in the dream that my subconscious mind expects to change if it were lucid. I think, if I spent long enough in the dream after declaring that I was dreaming, I would become really lucid, but after a minute of frantic RCing, attempts to stabilize, and experimentation, I wake up. Again, I personally feel like my conscious mind is starting to wake up and get used to the dream, which wakes me up. But I didn't really become lucid lucid, just sort of.. halfway there.

Although the plot in my dreams isn't really based on me realizing I'm dreaming, it still feels to be more of an intuitive realization as opposed to a logical, conscious one. And intuition is mainly based on the subconscious mind. I'm "aware" that I'm dreaming, but I don't know I'm dreaming... if that makes sense. What I'm trying to get at is that I can feel it, but not really know it, prove it, or understand it.

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Originally Posted by RobotGymnast

Mariano/Elkfazer: Exactly. I can say "I'm dreaming, because I get that from my intuition. However, I fail to consciously grasp what it really means, despite my gut having an understanding of it (which is my subconscious mind), so it's just really meaningless words. It usually leads to something changing in the dream that my subconscious mind expects to change if it were lucid. I think, if I spent long enough in the dream after declaring that I was dreaming, I would become really lucid, but after a minute of frantic RCing, attempts to stabilize, and experimentation, I wake up. Again, I personally feel like my conscious mind is starting to wake up and get used to the dream, which wakes me up. But I didn't really become lucid lucid, just sort of.. halfway there.

Although the plot in my dreams isn't really based on me realizing I'm dreaming, it still feels to be more of an intuitive realization as opposed to a logical, conscious one. And intuition is mainly based on the subconscious mind. I'm "aware" that I'm dreaming, but I don't know I'm dreaming... if that makes sense. What I'm trying to get at is that I can feel it, but not really know it, prove it, or understand it.

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I see where you're coming from now I think! if you have a lot of these dreams where you say to yourself "I'm Dreaming!" then it must be very frustrating to not have the results you want and stay in the dream longer. Can you tell me when you're frantically running around doing the RC's etc, does it still seem like you're on autopilot doing them? Or does the fact that you're seemingly lucid at the time just confuse things for you and you can't quite convince yourself that you're in the dream state?

Even a non-lucid RC ( when it works correctly ) should kick-in the logic centre of your brain to then allow you to do a fully conscious one as a back-up. I'm kinda guessing a bit there though, because I've only had the non-lucid RC's myself that failed at the time and made me more confused of where I really was. I'd love to see a non-lucid RC work for me though just to prove if the consciousness "wakes up" at that moment.

Well I wouldn't say I'm on autopilot, I say to myself "right, I'm dreaming. That means I'm supposed to RC". Then I try one, but I'm having trouble getting RCs to work (I can't really get myself to believe something WRONG is going to happen). I haven't yet RCd by trying something blatantly impossible, like trying to turn on the light with my mind (I mean, I've done impossible things, I've just never done them with the intention of trying to prove I'm dreaming).

When I become "lucid" (notice the air quotes), my dream brain goes "hey, it worked." for a second, and then, immediately, I realize that it didn't REALLY change the dream, that it just sort of changed a little thing because I thought it should (which I believe is the work of my unconscious mind).

Again, my non-lucid RCs don't work correctly. They tell me I'm awake, despite the fact that I tell myself I'm dreaming. Again, I find it hard to believe the wrong thing intentionally ><. I have to say that if I managed to stay in my dream for long enough, I could probably get to lucidity.

I was going to post my stand on this and lock it, but you guys need PMs. No amount of posting in here is going to help.

Please don't make me have to lock this. Let's keep our tempers in check alright?

Some have already stated the correct definitions, but let me reiterate:

A Lucid Dream: A dream in which the dreamer is aware that they are dreaming.

This DOES NOT mean the dreamer necessarily has to have control. On the flip side, you can dream about flying and shooting lightning out of your fingers, but if you don't know it's a dream, IT'S NOT A LUCID.

Vividness, control, and all that other jazz have no direct connections to lucidity. Regular dreams can be really vivid, lucid dreams can be dull, and vice-versa. Of course, once you ARE lucid, you can use certain techniques to help IMPROVE those dream aspects.

Consciousness: an alert cognitive state in which you are aware of yourself and your situation.

Consciousness is a little more tricky to define, but that gets the main idea. I am ALWAYS conscious in my regular dreams, meaning I know what I am doing and make decisions based on my situation. In fact, I'm gonna say that each and every one of you is conscious during your dreams. And I stand behind that statement. Maybe your definition of "consciousness" differs, that's okay.

You're conscious while awake right? If not, go see a doctor. Now, in dreams, you experience the events and sights just as if it were real. How is this possible if you are not "conscious" (going by my definition earlier)?

Please, guys, don't go spreading misinformation about "false lucids".

Alright, then let me sum up my questions:

I'm often lucid, but can't get the dream to be more stable, vivid, or controllable. I have tried the spinning stabilization and the breath RC, and neither has worked for me. My subconscious mind simply does what it think should happen when I try these things, and nothing else. How do I make my dreams more vivid, stable, and controllable? How do I wake up my consciousness in my dreams? I was under the impression that consciousness would come with stabilization and vividness, but you seem to be implying that it doesn't. Is that right?

*Sigh*

The fact that you are experiencing the dream AUTOMATICALLY means you are CONSCIOUS. If you were not conscious, you would have no recollection of it WHAT SO EVER.

Other than that, all you really need now is experience. With practise, things will get better over time, I guarantee you.

Don't give up.

oh, I have no intention of giving up ;D . That's just not me.
But what about those people that don't have that hazy "dream logic" in their dreams? Can you get rid of dream logic in favour of your waking mind sort of taking its place? Does that come with stability and vividness? I'd like to have my waking mind in dreams.

Other than that, thanks for your help. I think your last two posts have pretty much summed up everything and added a bit of information xD.

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Originally Posted by RobotGymnast

Other than that, thanks for your help. I think your last two posts have pretty much summed up everything and added a bit of information xD.

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And hopefully has gotten rid of some of the misinformation that was in your head. He has successfully summed up my PM to you, so don't look for it. :)

I won't, but I was really looking forward to it.
I don't think it ws so much wrong information as wrong terminology.

Well, in that case, my LD count is through the roof. My main concern now is "waking up" and getting rid of dream logic in a dream. Would this come with stability and vividness?

Dream logic? I think I know what you mean. I guess it's just a matter of clearing your head. Your logic centre of your brain is usually off during dreams, which is why we have trouble realizing we are dreaming. Normally, it's turned on once we are lucid. If you feel "hazy" try to remember something from real life or do a simple math problem like 2 + 2.

EDIT: By the way, I'm not sure how scientifically accurate this is, I'm just going off what I've read before. :P But it should help you out to do that.

That's actually what I meant by "consciousness", I meant the logic center. Unfortunately, I think I realize I'm dreaming mainly intuitively (because I've gotten very used to it over a few years), so my logic center doesn't seem to turn on. I'll try the math thing.

Hmm, maybe restate what you mean by dream logic, because it really shouldn't be hard to have normal logic return. If it even goes away, again, I'm not 100% sure.

Dream logic is something most people have in dreams as far as I know o_O. It's how your mind is sort of sluggish and slow in dreams, or just having bad dream memory and being confused by everything. Hmm.. I'll see if I can find a definition

I don't think that's completely correct. What I know as dream logic is really the inability to recognize unreal occurences in dreams.

I don't think your mind should be sluggish or slow for prolonged periods in your dreams... I'm still not really sure what you mean by all that. But in any case, none of that should happen.

Well I've never actually heard someone define dream logic, just heard references, as well as experienced a very dumb brain in dreams. At any rate, my brain in dreams is far from my brain outside of dreams.

You think that consciousness is equal to dream control? That's surprising for me.

For all intents and purposes, when you say that your mind does what you expect in a dream, you're describing indirect dream control. Controlling a dream is basically controlling your own expectations and moods.

What does control of your expectations and moods have to do with your level of consciousness? In daily life we never pay attention to either of those things, and the paragon of true consciosness for you must be daily life consciousness I guess...

Anyway my advise to you is to practice, you can't learn to do anything LD-wise by talking about it in a forum. Here there are no conditions to practice similar things. If you want more vividness try making dreams more vivid, for more control try controlling something, etc. If you don't already have ideas, you can look for tutorials on these things here.

Good luck!

What? No. I almost always can control my dreams, and am never really "conscious" (to my definition, which would be the logic center of my brain active).

I have tried doing these things in-dream, but with little result, because I'm caught in a placebo reality, and without being able to really get my very logical brain going, the words "it's just a dream, you can change it.. come on.. do it already" mean very little to my dream. That's why I'm hoping someone can suggest ways that "trick" the brain.

And that's not a very rare goal; tricking the brain is essentially why RCs and stabilization techniques exist. If the brain did everything we wanted it to on a whim, we wouldn't need these things. Because traditional methods of brain tricking seem to fail for me, I'm hoping that will suggest ways of getting my logic center going, or alternative ways of tricking my brain for vividness.

It's true that my mind does what I expect, but that's the annoying part. My passive control is more the placebo already in-place, going against what my conscious mind is trying to do, like keeping the dream dream-like. I say "it's a dream", but my mind doesn't really get it, so my passive control, directed by my subconscious mind, keeps the dream where it is.

guau robotgymnast, you are explaining perfectly what happened to me with ....emmm......"illogical lucid dreams"?
I mean, I'm in the dream, I "become lucid", but I still can't control myself, and my logic doesn't work, so I RC, a stabilize, I do a lot of things that are based on intuition, not on logic.

I mean, maybe we can give a new definition, they are not False Lucid Dreams, they are like Illogical Lucid Dreams....or.......
I don't know.

but I understand what you are saying.
so, you must answer me something.

Knowing that one is always Conscious....

we can define your dreams like this?(like mine, if possible)

:

A dream in where one is aware he/she is dreaming, but his Logical part of the brain doesn't wake up, so, he/she(the person, not the dream) feels like sluggy, dreamy, shady, and that confuses the user,his/her acts will be based on intuition, and not on logic like in Waking Life.
suppossing that if the logical part of brain wakes up, it will clarify the dreamer, then we can call it a Lucid Dream

is that ok?

because if so, I MUST CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF FALSE LUCID DREAM, AND THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT, If not, I'm carrying newbies to the failure!

answer please, and hope we can overcome this problem together !

Exactly, that was my definition of lucid dream, because just knowing you're dreaming and having control is such a normal part of my dreams, it didn't really deserve a definition in my brain.

You're describing my dreams very well. I'd like to wake up the logic center. Could this be done with stabilization techniques and RCs?

I aver that:

Awake=you are Awake
Nonlucid= you dream but think you are Awake
Lucid= you are there, just like in real life, and know it's a dream
False Lucid= you perhaps dream about lucidity, or that you are in a lucid but later you wake up and are like wtf it was just like a normal dream

However, only YOU can truly know what it was. Also please note that in cases where you loose lucidity later in the dream it may seem like a false lucid but it's not.

But how can you are dream you are in a lucid without knowing what a lucid is? So, you believe you're in a dream in which you know you're dreaming? Either way, you're aware you're in a dream, which would make it a lucid.

..or am I missing something?

RobotGymnast, I would not hear that definition, at least for now.
I'm sure the problem is the logic in dreams.
how can we wake up the logical part of the brain?
that's the main point!

That's true. Any new ideas?

I would like to see experienced lucid dreamers talk about this and help, but I don't see too many.

My ideas are:

-every time you RC become HIPER HIPER AWARE
-every time you RC try to do a mathemathical operation with numbers not higher than 20, every time with different numbers, and really think about the operation you are doing

I don't know anymore

it makes sense, but what did you mean "become hyper hyper aware"?

A non-lucid conscious dream: You have attempted to WILD, but then given up. While in actuality you are in a dream (such as those experienced by APers/OBErs), you do not realize this fact but are in possession of varying degrees of your waking, rational, mental faculties. Or, you have a false awakening. Without realizing you are dreaming, you are 'awake' and begin moving about getting ready for your day, etc.

A lucid conscious dream: You have WILDed or become lucid via DILD. You realize that the things around you are a dream. You are conscious, with varying degrees of your waking, rational, mental faculties.

A non-lucid unconscious dream: You think you are the pope who is on a mystical quest to procreate with the easter bunny so that your colored eggs will be able to be launched into space and take over the universe because tiny copies of you exist in each egg. You see nothing wrong with this. OR, you have a dream that you are lucid dreaming, without actually realizing that you are dreaming or having any actual waking-mental consciousness.

A lucid non-conscious dream: Doesn't exist. You have to be able to actually, mentally, consciously really realize that you are dreaming to be lucid. Your non-conscious dream self, stating that you are lucid, can happen as a dream behavior with no actual rational thought being applied and no understanding existing. This is what is referred to, by the member Mariano, as a false-lucid dream, and is confusing the hell out of everyone. This is a very very simple concept, but it seems only the simple-minded or those who have never experienced a lucid dream struggle with.

I think that the staff need to end this 'false lucid' nonsense. False lucid dreams are just non-lucid dreams where you dream that you are lucid. Just like a false awakening, but sans lucidity and in this case sans consciousness. A dream of something, but a non-lucid and a non-conscious dream of something. This is becoming too confusing, there are a handful of members who have become obsessed with this idea and continue discussing it even though it's a simple concept, and it's only going to confuse the fuck out of everyone new to lucid dreaming. If you dream about lucid dreaming, but don't actually consciously say 'oh I'm dreaming', then you are not lucid dreaming. You're just having a non-lucid dream.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shift

A non-lucid conscious dream: You have attempted to WILD, but then given up. While in actuality you are in a dream (such as those experienced by APers/OBErs), you do not realize this fact but are in possession of varying degrees of your waking, rational, mental faculties. Or, you have a false awakening. Without realizing you are dreaming, you are 'awake' and begin moving about getting ready for your day, etc.

A lucid conscious dream: You have WILDed or become lucid via DILD. You realize that the things around you are a dream. You are conscious, with varying degrees of your waking, rational, mental faculties.

A non-lucid unconscious dream: You think you are the pope who is on a mystical quest to procreate with the easter bunny so that your colored eggs will be able to be launched into space and take over the universe because tiny copies of you exist in each egg. You see nothing wrong with this. OR, you have a dream that you are lucid dreaming, without actually realizing that you are dreaming or having any actual waking-mental consciousness.

A lucid non-conscious dream: Doesn't exist. You have to be able to actually, mentally, consciously really realize that you are dreaming to be lucid. Your non-conscious dream self, stating that you are lucid, can happen as a dream behavior with no actual rational thought being applied and no understanding existing. This is what is referred to, by the member Mariano, as a false-lucid dream, and is confusing the hell out of everyone. This is a very very simple concept, but it seems only the simple-minded or those who have never experienced a lucid dream struggle with.

I think that the staff need to end this 'false lucid' nonsense. False lucid dreams are just non-lucid dreams where you dream that you are lucid. Just like a false awakening, but sans lucidity and in this case sans consciousness. A dream of something, but a non-lucid and a non-conscious dream of something. This is becoming too confusing, there are a handful of members who have become obsessed with this idea and continue discussing it even though it's a simple concept, and it's only going to confuse the fuck out of everyone new to lucid dreaming. If you dream about lucid dreaming, but don't actually consciously say 'oh I'm dreaming', then you are not lucid dreaming. You're just having a non-lucid dream.

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I couldn't have said it any better myself. Not a word there I disagree with.

Locked~

PM a staff member with any concerns you might have.