Castaneda's "Not Doing"

*Ok, I realize this subject involves Castaneda, and the first instinct most people have is to shove this into beyond dreaming. But paranormal and supernatural doesn't necessarily mean bullshit, only that there isn't enough scientific knowledge to fully explain what's happening.

In this instance, I've believe I've come up with a very logical and relevant explanation, so don't anyone fucking dare shove this into the bullshit section.

I believe this topic can be discussed rationally and would really appreciate hearing what normal "sane" people think of this concept.

And thanks to SpiritOfTheWolf for making me think of this. That's why I love this site. So many people with so many different views really gets you thinking.


When going over your dreams, you find TONS of dream signs that should have tipped you off that you are dreaming. But they usually don't, we go along with them like we're on autopilot or something. Learning to recognize those dream signs is a minor form of "not doing".

I recently heard that the average person spends about 85% of their day on autopilot. To use a dreaming analogy, that means we are only lucid about 15% of the time on an average day. The rest of the time we react out of habit, which requires absolutely no conscious thought. That autopilot is the exact opposite of lucidity.

Those percentages are reflected in our dreams, which is what makes it difficult to get lucid. To increase the odds of getting lucid, we need to drastically cut down that 85% of autopilot time.

This is what "Not Doing" was designed to do. "Not doing" consists of consciously not doing all those things we do mindlessly out of habit on autopilot mode. It doesn't necessarily mean not doing all those things, it can mean doing them differently. It can be as simple as brushing your teeth with your left hand instead of your right hand.

The point is you have use conscious thought to come up with something new, thereby breaking up those extended periods of autopilot syndrome. This will slowly increase your amount of RL lucid time and diminish the amount of time you spend in mindless autopilot mode.

All reality checks are in fact a form of "Not Doing". The problem with reality checks is that they are limited to one small portion of your daily autopilot routine. I would think that even the most devoted reality checkers only manage to lower the percentage of autopilot time by a few points.

The goal should be to get that percentage of autopilot time from 85% down to under 50% in order to acheive real results. And asking yourself if you're dreaming isn't even really necessary, only staying conscious.

This method should not only increase the frequency of your lucid dreams, but also considerably extend the length of them as well.

Seems obvious, but really isn't. Definately true though about being on autopilot so it makes logical sense to be more aware in the waking world = more aware in the dream one.

Interesting point.

Wow, this has just blown my mind. I truly believe that the reason I have been good/productive at LDing since day 1 is because I rarely do "routine" things. I'm one of those people that don't like to plan ahead. I often go places and do things on the spur of the moment. I also change plans that I already have quite often, lol. I never shower/eat/get dressed at the same time as previous days. I'm very unorganized and random. Really the only routine thing I do is smoke. That is a nice observation Cusp.

Is this really a Castaneda thing? It sounds like general awareness, to me. I'm not a real fan, but I don't remember him making a point about this. I always took his "not doing" as an existentialist view of the world.

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Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Is this really a Castaneda thing? It sounds like general awareness, to me. I'm not a real fan, but I don't remember him making a point about this. I always took his "not doing" as an existentialist view of the world.

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I agree, this is more common sense in a manner of speaking, not something anyone can take credit for.

I can see how it all relates. Especially with the holistic view of the world and dreaming that you seem to share, Cusp. The idea that stopping thought can let you more fully experience the world is common to many philosophies. I just never, specifically, got the connection to dreaming from Castaneda's writings. That is probably my oversight. Like I said, I was never that into his stuff.

Which book would you suggest I re-read to get a better picture of this concept? I'm way into this from a Buddhist perspective, and would love to get a fresh view on it.

i really enjoyed that post. nice work Cusp!

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Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Which book would you suggest I re-read to get a better picture of this concept? I'm way into this from a Buddhist perspective, and would love to get a fresh view on it.

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Beats me, been too long since I read them all. I doubt there is any one of his books that goes into it that much, since Castaneda himself didn't seem to understand what it was about. To him it was only something he was told to do.

this topic inspired a quote i just came up with.
"How can you be aware that you're dreaming, if you're never aware that you're awake?"

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Originally Posted by JamesLD

this topic inspired a quote i just came up with.
"How can you be aware that you're dreaming, if you're never aware that you're awake?"

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I like that!

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Originally Posted by The Cusp

I like that!

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Thank you for the inspiration!

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Originally Posted by The Cusp

Beats me, been too long since I read them all. I doubt there is any one of his books that goes into it that much, since Castaneda himself didn't seem to understand what it was about. To him it was only something he was told to do.

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Told by whom?

Don Juan Matus do not exist. He is fiction.

It is quite obvious when one uses critical analysis, the plagiarism is extensive, the obvious errors about the Yaqui people and traditions, and the logical and chronological errors in his narrative.

Now, you can accept his concepts and philosophies and still see his work as creative fiction, but ignoring the blatant lie is :boggle:

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Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

Told by whom?

Don Juan Matus do not exist. He is fiction.

It is quite obvious when one uses critical analysis, the plagiarism is extensive, the obvious errors about the Yaqui people and traditions, and the logical and chronological errors in his narrative.

Now, you can accept his concepts and philosophies and still see his work as creative fiction, but ignoring the blatant lie is :boggle:

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That's not what this thread is about in the least.

What a fascinating post, The Cusp. Very thought provoking. This really has me thinking: How can we get out of autopilot? Perhaps we could start a separate thread with ideas?

One possibility I'm thinking of is Dicing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice_Living

Dicing is where you write down say, six options, and roll a dice to decide which to do.

eg: 1) Walk dog
2) Drink coffee
3) Watch TV
4, 5, 6

You could also, perhaps, write six further options to decide HOW you carry out the task. Eg: Walking Dog

1) Don't take a ball, let him find a stick
2) Let him off the lead and run
3) Make it a longer walk than usual
4) Go a different route
5) Stop off at the shops and buy him a treat
6) Ask your partner if they want to come

Of course, you probably wouldn't want to take a dice and pen/paper with you everywhere, so maybe you could create some "prompters" (similar to dream signs, I guess) that decide your behaviour. Eg, "another dog owner" could be a prompter, so you could create the option: "I won't let him off the lead until I see another dog owner." So, you'd be more aware in the moment while you look out for another dog owner.

Also, there's mindfulness, where you use all your senses to enhance your awareness in the present moment.

Also, there's false limitations. So, when you're doing something, you could, for example, see how you manage doing the task with your eyes shut for 30 seconds. Or you say, do a menial task (like washing dishes) but set yourself the limitation of holding the sponge with only four fingers etc.

I shall have to think about this!

Another simple one you can do is to set out to double or half the amount of an action you do in a specified time.

For example, once I was at a party and bored. I picked a time duration: the next hour, and thought about what behaviour I could double or half in the next hour. I chose: talking. So, in the next hour I was constantly looking for ways to start conversations and continue them. I'm pretty sure this would be a good way to get out of autopilot and make you aware in the moment. (Interestingly, at the party I think I did more than double the amount of talking I did; my girlfriend asked me why I was talking so much :lol: )

Great thread, makes sense.

Try gazing at shadows instead of looking at the objects

Try walking backwards.

Gaze at mountains, clouds.

Journey to Ixtlan is the best book to read if you want to find out about Not Doing.

to get out of auto pilot the last couple days ive just been a lot more aware of the world around me, trying as much as i can to be lucid in waking life.

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Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

Is this really a Castaneda thing? It sounds like general awareness, to me.

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Quite. Actually no need to mention Castaneda at all in the initial section.

But then most cults do like to plant kernels of truth into the bullshit to sweeten the pill.

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Originally Posted by JamesLD

to get out of auto pilot the last couple days ive just been a lot more aware of the world around me, trying as much as i can to be lucid in waking life.

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yesterday I shaved and brushed my teeth with my left instead of right hand. That does force you to pay attention to what you are doing.

This is really very interesting, Im going to have to try this :) nice work!

This sounds like a challenge, but I'll try to think more about my actions.
The dice thing by TheWeirdness is epic :D

It's a good point. I don't know that the real problem is the autopilot, though.

There is a good reason for having an autopilot to begin with. When you learn any new skill, at the beginning it takes conscious control to exercise it, and therefore it absorbs most of your conscious attention. For example, learning to walk is a big effort to begin with, requiring a deliberate effort to move various muscles in coordination, maintain balance, etc. Driving is also the same kind of experience, operating the clutch, looking at the road signs, etc.

The final part of the learning process for any new skill is to automate it, meaning to let the unconscious deal with the details, so that your conscious mind is freed up to learn new stuff.

I think the problem is not the automation mechanism, but the fact that you stop learning new things. You carry out existing tasks in an automated way using your acquired skills, and you learn nothing new, because you are lazy, lack curiosity, are tired, whatever. In that case you go through most of your adult life in a daze, since your conscious mind is not occupied in any way.

What is the solution, though? To go backwards, returning to manual mode in relation to tasks that are already on auto-pilot? I don't think so. The solution is to become curious again about the world, as you were all during childhood, and in that way your conscious mind becomes engaged again throughout the day.

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Originally Posted by soreal

Journey to Ixtlan is the best book to read if you want to find out about Not Doing.

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Journey to Ixtlan is also the best book to start with if you want to read Castaneda. In addition to "not-doing", he also stressed disrupting routines as important.

It's tricky, as once you get used to disrupting your routine, it's easy to lapse into doing it in a routine way. You can break autopilot for a while, but then you get used to it and you're back in autopilot. Difficult to stay fresh.

yeah definitely logical. And most people here are already trying to be aware, however the problem is exhaustion- after some period of time you simply can't keep this up

We must shake loose the habits that form us if we are to break free.
unfortunately one's habits usually deep.
miseries spring from human stupidity.

I agree with mentalenforcer, it does tend to be easy to lapse into doing it in a routine way again - but at first

it does have a deep profound affect on my dreams if I can become unpredictable in RL for a while.

Possibly after reading another thread on awareness here on DV ( can't find it now) I bought a book by Eckhart Tolle called 'The Power of Now'. It only cost 67p plus P&P from Amazon and is well worth getting hold of. Its one of the most important books I have ever read.

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Originally Posted by atlantic

It's a good point. I don't know that the real problem is the autopilot, though.

There is a good reason for having an autopilot to begin with. When you learn any new skill, at the beginning it takes conscious control to exercise it, and therefore it absorbs most of your conscious attention. For example, learning to walk is a big effort to begin with, requiring a deliberate effort to move various muscles in coordination, maintain balance, etc. Driving is also the same kind of experience, operating the clutch, looking at the road signs, etc.

The final part of the learning process for any new skill is to automate it, meaning to let the unconscious deal with the details, so that your conscious mind is freed up to learn new stuff.

I think the problem is not the automation mechanism, but the fact that you stop learning new things. You carry out existing tasks in an automated way using your acquired skills, and you learn nothing new, because you are lazy, lack curiosity, are tired, whatever. In that case you go through most of your adult life in a daze, since your conscious mind is not occupied in any way.

What is the solution, though? To go backwards, returning to manual mode in relation to tasks that are already on auto-pilot? I don't think so. The solution is to become curious again about the world, as you were all during childhood, and in that way your conscious mind becomes engaged again throughout the day.

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I completely agree.

You wouldn't want your driver or your pilot to have to spend precious conscious moments on every single action required to operate their vehicle.
Our conscious mind can only make one decision at a time (all be it very quickly), but if we stop using our motor skills - then we loose the ability to multitask.

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Originally Posted by The Cusp

*Ok, I realize this subject involves Castaneda, and the first instinct most people have is to shove this into beyond dreaming. But paranormal and supernatural doesn't necessarily mean bullshit, only that there isn't enough scientific knowledge to fully explain what's happening.

In this instance, I've believe I've come up with a very logical and relevant explanation, so don't anyone fucking dare shove this into the bullshit section.

I believe this topic can be discussed rationally and would really appreciate hearing what normal "sane" people think of this concept.

And thanks to SpiritOfTheWolf for making me think of this. That's why I love this site. So many people with so many different views really gets you thinking.


When going over your dreams, you find TONS of dream signs that should have tipped you off that you are dreaming. But they usually don't, we go along with them like we're on autopilot or something. Learning to recognize those dream signs is a minor form of "not doing".

I recently heard that the average person spends about 85% of their day on autopilot. To use a dreaming analogy, that means we are only lucid about 15% of the time on an average day. The rest of the time we react out of habit, which requires absolutely no conscious thought. That autopilot is the exact opposite of lucidity.

Those percentages are reflected in our dreams, which is what makes it difficult to get lucid. To increase the odds of getting lucid, we need to drastically cut down that 85% of autopilot time.

This is what "Not Doing" was designed to do. "Not doing" consists of consciously not doing all those things we do mindlessly out of habit on autopilot mode. It doesn't necessarily mean not doing all those things, it can mean doing them differently. It can be as simple as brushing your teeth with your left hand instead of your right hand.

The point is you have use conscious thought to come up with something new, thereby breaking up those extended periods of autopilot syndrome. This will slowly increase your amount of RL lucid time and diminish the amount of time you spend in mindless autopilot mode.

All reality checks are in fact a form of "Not Doing". The problem with reality checks is that they are limited to one small portion of your daily autopilot routine. I would think that even the most devoted reality checkers only manage to lower the percentage of autopilot time by a few points.

The goal should be to get that percentage of autopilot time from 85% down to under 50% in order to acheive real results. And asking yourself if you're dreaming isn't even really necessary, only staying conscious.

This method should not only increase the frequency of your lucid dreams, but also considerably extend the length of them as well.

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Cusp that´s briljant. Good to see a sane, promising topic again. It´s been a while.

At first Reality Checks worked extremely well for me in inducing many lucid dreams, but after a while it completely lost it´s effect.
Off course because at first an RC was a new, strange thing for me to do, but eventually it became more normalised and simply became part of routine behaviour.

Your topic really moves me to try this out. Breaking this routine behaviour is the key to lucidity. It's that essential moment of "snapping out of it" that is exactly what becomming lucid is.

Doing things differently, like brushing your teeth with your left hadn instead of your right hand, might work really well. However if this specific action was used long enough then eventually it would also become habbit.

Let us think of more ways to "sabotage" and cut back on this the autopilot behaviour.

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Originally Posted by atlantic

It's a good point. I don't know that the real problem is the autopilot, though.



There is a good reason for having an autopilot to begin with. When you learn any new skill, at the beginning it takes conscious control to exercise it, and therefore it absorbs most of your conscious attention. For example, learning to walk is a big effort to begin with, requiring a deliberate effort to move various muscles in coordination, maintain balance, etc. Driving is also the same kind of experience, operating the clutch, looking at the road signs, etc.



The final part of the learning process for any new skill is to automate it, meaning to let the unconscious deal with the details, so that your conscious mind is freed up to learn new stuff.



I think the problem is not the automation mechanism, but the fact that you stop learning new things. You carry out existing tasks in an automated way using your acquired skills, and you learn nothing new, because you are lazy, lack curiosity, are tired, whatever. In that case you go through most of your adult life in a daze, since your conscious mind is not occupied in any way.



What is the solution, though? To go backwards, returning to manual mode in relation to tasks that are already on auto-pilot? I don't think so. The solution is to become curious again about the world, as you were all during childhood, and in that way your conscious mind becomes engaged again throughout the day.

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Hi atlantic.
I don't think doing things consciously, "mindfully" should occupie your consciousness so it is too filled up for new things to enter.
The Consciousness to break routine behaviour, as Cusp described, is a Passive awareness; Giving your behaviour(brushing teeth, playing piano, dreaming..etc) the attention that it needs doesn't mean giving it thought. It means giving it pure awareness: thoughtless focussed attention on whatever it is you're doing.

I noticed this when playing Piano: I focus my attention on playing the piano, but when my attention gets distracted I have trouble playing unhindered and sometimes fuck up. Usually my concentration on piano play is too strong to be disturbed if I don't want to be. When I think about what I'm playing: I defenitely, immediately fuck up.
It's this unbroken, constant, but completely thought-less attention that allows me to play piano influently.
Read some text that describes how buddhist monks empty their mind and you should come across this thoughtless, clear, pure awareness/mindfullness, then maybe you understand the specific state of mind/being I'm trying to describe here.



The thing is Dreaming is very much a thing we do on Autopilot. We create our dreams subconsciously(routine behaviour) most of the time.
When we have a Lucid Dream we have broken the routine behaviour and instead create your dreams consciously.
So breaking routine behaviour to snap out of autopilot during daytime, indeed seems to me very likely to achieve the same effect in our dreams leading to lucidity.

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Originally Posted by SKA

Doing things differently, like brushing your teeth with your left hadn instead of your right hand, might work really well. However if this specific action was used long enough then eventually it would also become habbit.

Let us think of more ways to "sabotage" and cut back on this the autopilot behaviour.

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It's true those new Not Doings can quickly become part of your routine, but there are so many options and possibilities on how to perform them, that's not really an issue.

The big problem is remembering to do it on a regular basis. I know what I need to be doing, but that doesn't mean I do it.

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Originally Posted by SKA

I noticed this when playing Piano: I focus my attention on playing the piano, but when my attention gets distracted I have trouble playing unhindered and sometimes fuck up. Usually my concentration on piano play is too strong to be disturbed if I don't want to be. When I think about what I'm playing: I defenitely, immediately fuck up.
It's this unbroken, constant, but completely thought-less attention that allows me to play piano influently.

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That's a perfect example. I've noticed the same thing when playing guitar. By the way, I like that song you made and posted here: http://dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?t=84933

Could someone please elaborate on Castaneda's Not Doing? Perhaps someone could quite from the book what he sais about Not doing.

And what about that, Cusp: Playing music forces our attention into thoughtless mindfullness automatically. Maybe we should exploit that fact to become lucid.

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Originally Posted by SKA

Could someone please elaborate on Castaneda's Not Doing? Perhaps someone could quite from the book what he sais about Not doing.

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It's been awhile since I've read it. There appears to be a summary here:
http://alangullette.com/essays/philo/stopping.htm
I'd have to dig out the book to do better.

"How can you be aware that you are dreaming, when you are not even aware that you are awake?"

I think I saw that on this site somewhere.

Autopilot has a Reason. Imagine taking a test. You need to think about the answers and write them down. Autopilot writes and you think. If there was no Auropilot then you're too busy writing to think about the answers. Result? A failed test. A big F.

When I walk, I don't have anything to do. Thinking about walking is fine for a few months. Then it's Boring. So I think. I explore. We go to autopilot so we can do other stuff. We can have a chat while driving or walking. We can think about what to write when writing. We can explore. If we explore with our consciousness, we are aware of our thoughts. And that will engage the mind.

Someone else made a thread where they mentioned a Buddhist method called "mindfulness" that seemed to be the equivalent of Castaneda's "not doing". Even gave the same tooth brushing technique, only to start brushing from the top instead of the bottom, instead of using the left hand instead of the right.

I don't do this nearly enough, but when I do, I try to incorporate exercise into my daily routine.

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Originally Posted by The Cusp

Someone else made a thread where they mentioned a Buddhist method called "mindfulness"..

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"Mindfulness" is the new hot psychological tool being used in counselling over here. I went to 4 sessions and it's all about banishing thought from your mind using different senses, particularly hearing.

To the poster who wrote that they thought that Castaneda's "Not-Doing" was an existentialist world view, well.. it's actually a large set of physical things-to-do: the not-doing of writing, for example, is to write on blank paper with a finger; the not-doing of sleeping is LDing; the not-doing of running would be the Gait of Power. (Plains Native Americans had their "contraries" who had to do everything backwards- riding, washing, walking etc etc).

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Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

It is quite obvious when one uses critical analysis..

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Always amusing to read the latest Wiki research.

To the people making an argument supporting automation:

Yes, it definitely has a purpose and in many situations, is completely necessary. But that doesn't mean that in the occasions where it's not necessary we can focus intently on what we're doing to break out of the autopilot. I don't think that the argument was to completely focus on whatever your doing every single moment of every single day because, yes, a lot of activities would become completely impossible.

On a side note, I really love that dice idea! I am going to try it out in the following weeks and see where it takes me. I think I'm going to read that book "the dice man." seems like a good read.