Lucid dream or a "bad joke"?

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10-01-2009, 07:15 PM
ThunderSS

Lucid dream or a "bad joke"?

I have a simple question for you. When you are LD dreaming how do you know that everything you did in your dream wasn't supposed to happen? I mean how can we know that we don't dream ourself having a lucid dream without actually having one?

Why I am asking thins? Because 2 nights ago I had a bunch of lucid dreams (I recalled 4 of them) for the first time and I did lots of things like looking at a watch, flying and even having sex. Almost anything I remembered during my dreams that I read here. But I left with a strange filing that everything was more like a scam made by my mind.
10-01-2009, 07:19 PM
VirtualReality

Actually, you can't know. But the same goes for life. You don't know whether everything you see in WL is just a "scam of your mind"...

My advice is to assume the best... And gratz on the four cool lucids ;)
10-01-2009, 07:26 PM
ThunderSS

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtualReality

Actually, you can't know. But the same goes for life. You don't know whether everything you see in WL is just a "scam of your mind"...

My advice is to assume the best... And gratz on the four cool lucids ;)

Indeed, so much truth in there. Tho, I just can't get the idea out of my head...it keeps bugging me.
10-01-2009, 08:09 PM
yuriythebest

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderSS

Indeed, so much truth in there. Tho, I just can't get the idea out of my head...it keeps bugging me.

to append what VirtualReality said- if that bothers you, you should probably be also worried and just as bugged by the whole notion of freedom of choice and free will, be it waking life or dreams. one thing is certain though- if any free will exists in nonlucids it's in far fewer quantities than LD's or RL.
10-01-2009, 08:47 PM
SolvedSnake

Free will is basically the ability to make a decision. If you can decide to do something, then you have free will. You don't have to go deeper than that :D
10-01-2009, 09:27 PM
ThunderSS

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolvedSnake

Free will is basically the ability to make a decision. If you can decide to do something, then you have free will. You don't have to go deeper than that :D

Sorry for this, but:

How can you know that you are making all decisions? Did you ever thought that all those decisions are just simple consequences? You are just going with the wind without even knowing it.

PS: This is just plain off-topic.
10-02-2009, 03:49 AM
not counting

If we all somehow do not have any sort of free will its kind of cool that we talk about it. Well in the end it's not like we hat a choice...!?

And it's not like I really wanted to write this... it already was decided.

This is like some crazy example of recursion O_o <-- and this too <-- and this too <-- and this... forget it

To connect this to lucid dreaming:
Decisions that humans make are mostly based on emotions. Emotions = subconscious.
How can you connect better to your subconsciousness?
Exactly! Lucid dreaming :D

There are cases in witch brain damage can cause that the person can't make decisions anymore. I would read into that if you are interested. But thats your decision ;)
10-02-2009, 04:14 AM
Maria92

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderSS

Sorry for this, but:

How can you know that you are making all decisions? Did you ever thought that all those decisions are just simple consequences? You are just going with the wind without even knowing it.

PS: This is just plain off-topic.

Seeing as how we cannot be sure of anything, we cannot be sure that whatever decisions we make were because of a specific event. When you break down reality (or the reality we perceive to inhabit) to the quantum level, all rationality goes out the window, and events happen randomly. Ergo, we must have some sort of free will.

PSS. Yeah, this is really off-topic.
10-02-2009, 04:22 AM
detroitLions1970

I've noticed real lucid dreams that I've had have felt... I don't know. There is a quality to them, like you can feel conciousness that I don't usually feel in my normal dreams.

I wonder if there is any EEG data floating around the 'net about brain states when lucid? Also, we have to remember the experiment performed by Steven LaBerge - He was able to give signals with his eyes to indicate he was awake and aware.

EDIT: I found a little data here and there. Here is a graph from (SRC=http://www.lucidity.com/SleepAndCognition.html) displaying physiological activity of REM density, rate of respiration, heart rate and skin potential on the subject. t-0m is the onset of lucidity in the subject, note the relatively obvious change in the subject's physiological activity. Apologies it couldn't have been in a better resolution, thats what they had.
And PLEASE be sure to note that I'm not fully understanding this chart because I'm not 100% of how I'm interpreting the REM density. If the subject was already in REM when they became lucid, we could safely say the changes in physiology are tied to lucidity. If the subject 'became lucid' at the same time the REM cycle started, those stats could well be just the body in REM. Clarify it for me if you can.

http://www.lucidity.com/gif/Histograms.gif
10-02-2009, 04:15 PM
imj

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderSS

I have a simple question for you. When you are LD dreaming how do you know that everything you did in your dream wasn't supposed to happen? I mean how can we know that we don't dream ourself having a lucid dream without actually having one?

Why I am asking thins? Because 2 nights ago I had a bunch of lucid dreams (I recalled 4 of them) for the first time and I did lots of things like looking at a watch, flying and even having sex. Almost anything I remembered during my dreams that I read here. But I left with a strange filing that everything was more like a scam made by my mind.

If I got you right..you are saying that you dream of what you read here? It may be dream incubation, you incubated what you read Y is that a bad joke? Lucid dreaming or concious dreaming to me is when the waking self is awakened. Conciousness is already in normal dreams just that self in the dream is NOT the waking self. It is unable to think out of the dream nor can it decide for itself unless it is part of the dream. Basically the dream self has no initiative of random thoughts unlike the waking self. So to your question about knowing if it was planned to happen or not?....Ask yourself do you normally have sex in the middle of something that has nothing to do with sex in dreams?....My idea of 'supposed to happen' stuff in dreams means the self cannot think for himself but is constricted to what is going on in the dream...so far I never thought of a BigMac while in my room in the dreams I had about it, it's always something happening that is part of the dream and 'I' the dream self reacts to the situation as it is supposed to happen....No BigMacs.....No I'm hungry lets go KFC after this...

IMJ
10-02-2009, 08:43 PM
My Other Brain

I'd say there is a difference between having a dream based on the premise that you know you're dreaming, and having a real lucid dream.

In my dream last night, I knew I was dreaming, in that vague way you know some things in dreams. I did some cool stuff, but I didn't seem to be influenced by rational thought and reflection. Which I think would be the test.
10-02-2009, 08:53 PM
DeeryTheDeer

I'd say that the basic difference between lucid dreaming and regular dreams is that lucid dreaming allows you to choose the type of dreams you want to have. I don't have to believe that a monster/bully that I don't like is harrassing me if I'm lucid, and I have the free will to enjoy myself. I can also have ultimate power over the senses I'm experiencing that you rarely, if ever, have in a regular dream.
04-01-2012, 11:19 PM
superchaz

ive done this before. I actually said "I am lucid, I'll prove it. I'll change my shirt." I changed my shirt without being lucid despite the fact that I said this was a dream SCUMBAG DREAM CHARACTER!!!