Thread: LD - Spiritual Perspective

Yes, I feel that there is something definately spiritual with dreaming, although I understand and accept the scientific reasonings as well. I don't feel that dreaming is entirely a neurological function or that it is entirely a spiritual function. I think that a heightened level of awareness is possible, and that there is a possibility that this awareness can be increased in our waking lives/ added to our dreaming lives as we lucid dream.

I have practiced meditation for a long time, and it makes me aware there is this spiritual level of space and time unity. But just recently I drew a parallel between this idea and the LD concept.

This sounds interesting. Could you expound on it please?

Oh, and I see you're new Luanne. Welcome to Dream Views!

Note: Could we get a Mod to take this thread to Beyond Dreaming?

Thank you for welcoming me, Kordan!

While meditating (TM) I am aware of the illusion of life. Just like in LD, when I am being aware of the illusion of dream. So, it is kind of an hierarchy of awareness levels. I look at it that way.

Perhaps this should go in 'Beyond Dreaming'....

Cool thread. I was just about to start a similar type thread with the following link to some excerpts from a Ken Wilber book. There's some interesting stuff here about lucid dreaming:
http://books.google.com/books?id=svC...age&q=&f=false

Originally Posted by Luanne

Perhaps this should go in 'Beyond Dreaming'....

Done.

My personal beliefs:

The dreamworld is another dimension.

Everything is spiritual. Nothing is spiritual. All is energy which is the greater reality beyond the mask of the illusion of perception.

Many of the same rules that apply in dreaming apply in waking life.

All spiritual things will one day be explained by science.

I am not sure exactly what your question is, but I think you deliberately left it open-ended.

I think it's funny that you started out with, "New Agers, Agonostics...." I have called myself so many labels in the past. I don't really care about categorizing myself anymore to make it easy for people to "understand" me. I understand why you did it, and it doesn't bother me at all. It made me kind of just laugh at myself.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I am not sure exactly what your question is, but I think you deliberately left it open-ended.

I think it's funny that you started out with, "New Agers, Agonostics...." I have called myself so many labels in the past. I don't really care about categorizing myself anymore to make it easy for people to "understand" me. I understand why you did it, and it doesn't bother me at all. It made me kind of just laugh at myself.

Actually there is no question, just a curiosity whether you feel the same about this, to see your opinions.

I have been developing this point of view all of my life. Every life experience, a person or a book takes me in that direction. And maybe a year ago, or two, I found myself shocked in front of the computer, reading about my wholle character being labelled in this New Age concept.
I learned to live with it, doesn't bother me. Even though I don't prefer it, I wrote that to give a glance about the topic, cause the firs sentence is shown before you open it.

My perception, as influenced by several spiritual teachers, is this:

The Dreamtime is an "in-between" place between what we experience as physical and what we experience as spiritual. When we dream, whether we do it Lucidly or not, we exist in an altered vibrational state that allows us to interact with energies that are either higher or lower than our normal physical existence would allow.

When we Dream lucidly, we can Intentionally access Source energy to manipulate our experience. We can also open ourselves up to receiving energy. That energy can be beneficial to us or have a negative impact on us depending on what we do and how we go about accessing it.

Originally Posted by saxonharp

When we Dream lucidly, we can Intentionally access Source energy to manipulate our experience. We can also open ourselves up to receiving energy. That energy can be beneficial to us or have a negative impact on us depending on what we do and how we go about accessing it.

Interesting. How do you access the source energy while dreaming? Do you use the same methods as while being awake? And how does it feel, if you can explain it?

Originally Posted by saxonharp

My perception, as influenced by several spiritual teachers, is this:

The Dreamtime is an "in-between" place between what we experience as physical and what we experience as spiritual. When we dream, whether we do it Lucidly or not, we exist in an altered vibrational state that allows us to interact with energies that are either higher or lower than our normal physical existence would allow.

When we Dream lucidly, we can Intentionally access Source energy to manipulate our experience. We can also open ourselves up to receiving energy. That energy can be beneficial to us or have a negative impact on us depending on what we do and how we go about accessing it.

The idea of it being an in-between place is new to me. Interesting.

I agree that the dreamworld, dreamtime, is mostly energy, but then so is the physical world, but we are not aware of it. I had a cool Aboriginal Dreamtime dream where I was playing didjeridoo with an Aboriginal man in the Outback.

I think we were all spiritually aware at one point in human history...by this, I mean we were more connected to the Earth and were more intimately connected with our own spirit at one point.

I feel this was possible back then because there was no technology, there was no media (or very little of it), and there was no science either.

Now, there's the Media in which people are wholly absorbed in, and there's technology that pulls people further into the material-driven world.
and there's science which has imbued on us the unfortunate philosophy that, 'we know everything, and the stuff science can't prove probably doesn't exist.'

i know that was just very blatent, there is so much to this....

i don't even know if what i just said fits with the theme of this thread....

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I had a cool Aboriginal Dreamtime dream where I was playing didjeridoo with an Aboriginal man in the Outback.

awesome....

HonorableMouse, I agree there is a bunch of distracting shit. But I also believe there has always been the same amount of shit, and always will be. That's why we are not living lucidly...

We are trying though...and we are getting better.

Originally Posted by HonerableMoUsE

I think we were all spiritually aware at one point in human history...by this, I mean we were more connected to the Earth and were more intimately connected with our own spirit at one point.

I feel this was possible back then because there was no technology, there was no media (or very little of it), and there was no science either.

Now, there's the Media in which people are wholly absorbed in, and there's technology that pulls people further into the material-driven world.
and there's science which has imbued on us the unfortunate philosophy that, 'we know everything, and the stuff science can't prove probably doesn't exist.'

i know that was just very blatent, there is so much to this....

i don't even know if what i just said fits with the theme of this thread....

Well, Science is a beautiful religion that has made a lot of contributions to this world. It's main focus is manipulating physical reality using technology as its primary tool.

But, I agree with you totally. Saying something must not exist just because you can't prove it is ridiculous. Maybe it exists, but you just can't prove it. Hell, I can't even prove I exist, but I know I do.

Originally Posted by Luanne

awesome....

I agree there is a bunch of distracting shit. But I also believe there has always been the same amount of shit, and always will be. That's why we are not living lucidly...

....Wheel of Suffering.

Buddhist?

Originally Posted by HonerableMoUsE

....Wheel of Suffering.

Buddhist?

No, I'm not familiar with that term. Maybe you should PM me about that, so that we don't go off-topic here.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

Well, Science is a beautiful religion that has made a lot of contributions to this world. It's main focus is manipulating physical reality using technology as its primary tool.

The religion of science reminds me of a movie I really liked, The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. I may have misunderstood what the movie was supposed to be about, but for me it was about the time when science took over as the dominant way of understanding reality.

Originally Posted by Luanne

Interesting. How do you access the source energy while dreaming? Do you use the same methods as while being awake? And how does it feel, if you can explain it?

It's much easier in Dreamtime than in a conscious state because, as I said, your vibrational level is already altered.

So much of accessing Source Energy involves quieting the mind and focusing your Intent on the subject at hand. You have to actively and consciously alter your vibrational level to leave the Physical state. When you are Dreaming, Lucidly mostly, your Intent is already much more focused and because you are in an Inbetween place already you don't have to consciously alter your vibrational level and it is easier for your Guides, Allies and Benefactor to provide you with assistance. You've already met them half way.

As for what it "feels" like, all I can say is that everything is much more intense. Your ability to focus on detail becomes infinite and your normal five senses are at their peak.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I had a cool Aboriginal Dreamtime dream where I was playing didjeridoo with an Aboriginal man in the Outback.

Did he teach you how to "Circular Breathe?"

Originally Posted by saxonharp

Did he teach you how to "Circular Breathe?"

I've never understood that concept: in AND out...at the same time??!!??!!

Originally Posted by Kordan

I've never understood that concept: in AND out...at the same time??!!??!!

I only saw it once when our tv reporter, who was exploring Australia, tried to do it. It was so funny, sounded like a huge fart.

Anyway, saxonharp, That is very distinct from what I've been doing while awake. I am always going for the complete calm, free of all shapes and senses.
But I like what you are saying, and it is something I would really like to experience.

I can see how the dream level could be helpful to reach the higher one.
It is completly aligning (not sure if this is the right word...I'm not a native english speaker) with my view, cause consciousness itself has nothing to do with the body; and you are talking about - dreaming, LD, source energy. (hierarchy)
There must be an awaken level in between.

I must try that.

Originally Posted by saxonharp

Did he teach you how to "Circular Breathe?"

here's the excerpt:

I saw Earth in front of me. I could spin the image of the Earth around like Google Earth. I saw Japan was asleep. Then, I thought about Australia, and the Dreamtime. Suddenly I was in Australia. It was night. I was in The Outback. I was The Maxx. "This will never do," I thought. I have to become an animal. I thought about the great animals of Australia. I became a red kangaroo. I went bounding over the plain. A freshwater crocodile appeared and attacked me, biting me in the stomach. I teleported away, healed my wound, then, I leapt up and stomped on his head. He got pissed, and as I turned for another attack, he lunged up at me, exposing his underside, so I punched him in his chest.The crocodile disappeared.

I saw an Aboriginal man playing a didjeridoo on the plain. I became me again. I heard other men playing far far away in a canyon. I sat down in front of the man on the plain. I pulled out a didjeridoo. He opened his eyes and looked at me. He was a little surprised to see an outsider in the dreamtime. He smiled at me benignly, then began playing again. We both played together. I got lost in the music. Stars began pouring out of his didjeridoo, and I stopped playing, transfixed. The stars flew up into the sky, forming constellations.

I saw a dingo, a crocodile, owls, kangaroos, koalas, and other animals. The constellations told a great story, The Story, the story of our origins, our past our future, it was all the same, it was all one. I was overwhelmed. I couldn't understand it, but I kept staring up at the constellations. I felt like crying.

Then, I was playing with the man again. We both stopped our song at the same time. He looked at me, and smiled again. It was time for me to leave Australia.

From my viewpoint:

When we have non-lucid dreams, we basically are in a universe created by our unconscious mind.
When we have lucid dreams, we can change that universe with our will, or create our own universe.
And when we are awake, we are in a universe constantly created by all of us.
In our dreams, we are gods. We can do anything. Only our beliefs and what we are used to in "real life" limits us. But you can change that with practice.
However, in "real life", it's kinda hard to create/destroy matter, or change it by will since we all kinda accept reality the way it is. You can change reality for yourself though. But it won't change for others. But don't expect to see the changed reality trough your eyes, since your eyes are bound to see what we all "agree" in. So yeah, that's my spiritual viewpoint on dreaming and real life.

Originally Posted by SolvedSnake

From my viewpoint:

When we have non-lucid dreams, we basically are in a universe created by our unconscious mind.
When we have lucid dreams, we can change that universe with our will, or create our own universe.
And when we are awake, we are in a universe constantly created by all of us.
In our dreams, we are gods. We can do anything. Only our beliefs and what we are used to in "real life" limits us. But you can change that with practice.
However, in "real life", it's kinda hard to create/destroy matter, or change it by will since we all kinda accept reality the way it is. You can change reality for yourself though. But it won't change for others. But don't expect to see the changed reality trough your eyes, since your eyes are bound to see what we all "agree" in. So yeah, that's my spiritual viewpoint on dreaming and real life.

Cool. Thanks for sharing.

moving off topic once again....

Kenny G. is a pro at circular breathing....he can hold a note for as long as he wants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkA_pxHaNZQ

...sorry