What......exactly, is used to dignify the astral experience as "real" respectively to the Lucid Dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreamKing
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What......exactly, is used to dignify the astral experience as "real" respectively to the Lucid Dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreamKing
Do not state such things as fact, and if you do...be prepared to cite your legitimate sources please.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreamKing
And I have some major issues with your generalizations.
In lucid dreaming:
You are asleep
(obviously)
Your experience is a dream
(again, obviously)
Your location is whereever you wish it to be (desert, ocean, future, past, mom’s house, etc.)
(not always)
Your consciousness is still inside your body
(how do you know?)
You can control the environment and characters
(um no, a lot of people find they have very little control actually)
When the experience is over, you simply wake up
(not always, you might enter a non-lucid dream, lucid dream, AP, etc)
In astral projection:
You awaken, then you project
(you're saying that you are not asleep? what does "project" mean, how do you do it? sources please?)
Your experience is real
(as opposed to...fake? please clarify.)
Your experience begins in your bedroom, or wherever your body is
(definitely not always, maybe for the lower "earthly" astral planes, but anyone with knowledge about AP will tell you that you can access higher astral planes through LDing)
Your consciousness is outside of your body, and your body is left with none
(proof? evidence? sources? anything?)
You can manipulate your environment in the astral realm (somewhat), but you cannot control the actions of the inhabitants of the astral plane.
(actually agree with you on this one)
When the experience is over, you return to your body and merge your consciousness back into it
(again, there is absolutely nothing to prove this, it's what you believe, do not state it as fact)
...and I'm sorry for crapping up a wonderfully terrific thread, but some people need to get their shit straight or at least stop generalizing and stating their opinion as fact.
I agree with you on pretty much all of that, but he said you "can" have control, not will. I know its just symantics but its worth noting that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
Particularly good point on being outside and inside of your body. It could all be an elborate dream. People claim to move things during AP then find them moved, but maybe they moved them previously sub-consciously. I know I often close doors, turn off lights, and do stuff not because I want to but because its habbit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
completly agree. astral projection is like misguided MILD in my opinion since you can use MILD for anything- the point is you know it's in your head. The only way to 'prove' it was an astral projection is if something happened while you were asleep and you saw it in your projection or just saw something you wouldn't have been able to see otherwise and later verified it to be true
otherwise, you could use MILD to "astrally project" yourself to your minds rendition of the egyptian afterlife or to wonderland or World of Warcraft for all it's worth it won't make it true just cause 'you believe'
Who said anything about fact? I simply gave you my opinion, and like I've said if you read my previous thread I mention that we can call it whatever we want but it seem like you have a problem with my opinion and my experiences... Oh Well. I didn't join this forum to lay down fact and to start arguing and cursing and all with DV members, you can do that on YouTube or Myspace as far as I know. You want sources, Proof and all, guess what? there isn't any because as of right now all the proof is in ourselves and in all our experiences.
It was the way you wrote it that made it sound as if you were giving conclusive answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreamKing
Well don't be so surprised when people question you.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreamKing
Well they can question as much as they want but when they get an answer they don't like all of a sudden the answers became conclusive to them. But I can careless what anyone think anyway, it's probably better to answer a DV question through PM only, that should save me all the headache.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loaf
No offense but, sometimes, our perceptions are wrong. A nice example is the old geocentric belief that the sun rotates around the earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDreamKing
From my experience and from my point of view as an earth inhabitant i would be lead to believe in this. But science has discovered and proved that the heliocentric model is the right one and the old empiric belief was abandoned.
I'm not saying you are wrong but i can't say you are right either...
one thing i've learned here is that i need to treat dc's with respect and like they are individuals. not computers or slaves or even here just to serve my own agenda.
what if dc's are their own person? then maybe each of them has a unique perspective? maybe you are better off asking them *if* they can help and what *part* of the puzzle they might be able to help you with?
then presumbaly just like in waking life some might be able to help you and some won't and some will have an accurate persective and who knows... maybe some won't and while some could be helpful, maybe some might even be devious or simply have no idea?
etc.
bg~~~
I am surprised that no one has provided a conclusive answer, or any supporting evidence based on their own experience.
Because I can't achieve lucidity easy, I have to rely on other more "gifted" dreamers to ask the DCs the questions. It wouldn't take more than 30-60 seconds in a dream.
Can someone please give it a go? A question about your childhood could be "what present did I get for my 10th birthday?".
Thanks in advance to anyone who gives it a shot. :bowdown:
@Junknown:
I actually think that there is a gravitational center betwine the Sun and the Earth. Where bot rotate around. But the mass of the Sun is making this point almost the same position as it self.
@TheDreamKing:
Well, what I actualy like about this forum are the more scientific ways that most users think about the experiences caused by lucid dreams.
The simple fact of my own awarness is far enough to give me the knowledge that existenc and the universe is fare more then a big physic simulation.
BUT my experience and mind tells me that all this mystic, astral, gods and invisible pink unicorns are EITHER made up by some deluders to controll other people to there advantage (e.g. for money).
Or made up and maintained by people with bad scientific education and e.g. religios imprinting.
Of course the Flying Spaghetti Monster is an exception. ;)
Back to the topic:
I'am my self a very interessted in this. But because im still learning to even get a lucid dream it will take me some time to test it for my self.
In my case there are suppressed memoryes that I (more or less) want to remember.
well i still think you have to ask the right dc... one who would actually know the answer.
i am not sure you could ask any old dc.
so the answer may be harder to obtain than you think.
which dc to ask?
the drunk you meet on the street?
the floozie? the power lifter?
you would have to meet your parents or the one who gave you the gift or was there, for starters, right?
and who wants to tell you and who also can remember...
etc...