SubConscious resistance to LD's

Hi All,
I'm a newbie poster but have been lurking around here for a while.

My question is ..Does the Sub Conscious(SC) actively resist attempts to become lucid, and if so why?

I ask because after considerable early LD success, I'm now in a long dry spell and feel my SC seems to be playing tricks on me.
Regular dream signs have vanished or become very infrequent, others constantly change in character. An example is that the regular out of control car has become every shade and shape of vehicle ...from a helicopter to a flying carpet. Such changes make it difficult to set up RC's around them. I also note that other posters using the visual and auditory cues from assorted REM masks soon find that they are incorporated into the dreams in a way which makes them miss them.
In addition my dream recall which was very good, deteriorated rapidly and only now is it beginning to improve with more active attention.

So what's the view out there, and do you master lucid dreamers have better control over your SC's?

No, you're perfectly normal. Dreamsigns are temporary, malleable, as is the mind itself. Actually, I'd be scared if the features and frequencies of your dreamsign never changed!

Normal yes but it doesn't answer the question Why the SC resistance to LD's making it nescessary to change dream signs, blocking etc?

I think subconscious resistance to lucid dreaming partly builds up as a response to boredom and frustration. Are you running out of ideas of what to do in LD's? Getting bored with your ideas? Getting frustrated every time you don't have one? I think these things decrease my chances of having LD's, while excitement about things to do in them, confidence, and not having a recent induction failure make it easier.

Boredom and frustration, I think, block LDs because dreams work on a principle of "if you expect it, odds are you get it." If you expect failure, you get failure. If you expect scary things to happen, they usually do. If you expect to bonk a hot celebrity, the opportunity will more likely than not pop up.

Maybe try a new technique, listing your new dream signs, and coming up with something fun and within or just barely beyond your normal lucid talents to do in your LD.

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Originally Posted by nordicul

Normal yes but it doesn't answer the question Why the SC resistance to LD's making it nescessary to change dream signs, blocking etc?

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:/

Why are you attributing "subconscious resistance" as a cause for your change in dream signs? Your dreams signs don't change because "your subconscious is out to get you." Your dream signs change because your focuses in waking life change, because your real-life stressors and excitements change.

And that is a normal part of life.

My view of dreams is that they are created by the subconscious, all be it that they are created from both conscious and unconscious experiences. Dreams are then "viewed" by the conscious mind though, at a low level of consciousness (well in me at any rate!). Once the conscious mind has been cued enough into spotting dream signs,when they happen in a dream this ups the viewing consciousness level, allowing Lucidity to occur or other action like reality checks to occur ,leading hopefully to Lucidity.
The point I made was that following many previous successful LD's made from identifying regular and recurrent DS's these DS's then vanished or changed substantialy. In my mind I can only conclude that the SC at the very least does not readily wish the conscious mind ie Lucidity to intrude into it's dreams.
I accept Abra's point that " Your dream signs change because your focuses in waking life change, because your real-life stressors and excitements change." however their sudden disapearence remains mystyfying to me.
As for Innerspacecadet's view that resistance builds up in response to "frustration and boredom" I can't believe that I'm any less excited about LD's if anything after doing it I'm much more excited and have hundreds of projects lined up. However "frustrated"...Yes, very much!... failure to break this dry spell has pushed me into coming out of the lurker closet, putting my thoughts into words and seekng answers. So how do you LD masters handleyour repeated failure to achieve lucidity?

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Originally Posted by Abra

Actually, I'd be scared if the features and frequencies of your dreamsign never changed!

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why.

Its only natural that as something that you have used as a dream sign becomes more and more common as you continue to use it, that eventually you get used to it. This is the same for the visual or audio cues from induction devices. You're mind changes. Your techniques should change with it.

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So how do you LD masters handleyour repeated failure to achieve lucidity?

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perserverance and willingness to let go of preconceptions. If something isn't working, change it. The most important thing is to not get discouraged, it is counter productive.

There was a time when I considered myself a master of lucid dreaming. This view lead me to slacken in my basic habits. I stopped recording dreams that 'weren't worth it', I stopped reassuring myself that I could be lucid since I had taken it for granted. Now I'm trying to break a year long dry spell and I'm just realizing all of my mistakes now. I restarted keeping a regular dream journal and started writing down my goals every day. Basically I started over. If you accept that starting over is okay and is not an admittance of defeat, you can be back in no time.

Im in a similar position to the OP, ive only been working on LD for about 3 months now. in the first 2 months i went from nothing at all up to having 2 fully conscious LDs and about 5 layer 1-2s. but for the last month ive not had anything. nothing reallys changed in my approach, still RCing, keeping a dream journal, trying WBTB most days etc, not sure where im going wrong. ive been messing about with different induction techniques so i suppose its only a matter of time before i hit the jackpot but its still a bit annoying.
as mentioned by a poster above i think ill try incorporating a statement of intent into my DJ to see if that can hellp focus my mind.

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Originally Posted by cygnus

why.

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Because, that'd mean you aren't changing (hopefully, progressing) mentally. If your dream signs are static, that means you're reacting to your stressors in the same way each time, which isn't adaptive. For dream signs that aren't related to stressors, this means that your patterns of thinking, or your day-to-day interests do not change. What a life.

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Originally Posted by Abra

Because, that'd mean you aren't changing (hopefully, progressing) mentally. If your dream signs are static, that means you're reacting to your stressors in the same way each time, which isn't adaptive. For dream signs that aren't related to stressors, this means that your patterns of thinking, or your day-to-day interests do not change. What a life.

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i disagree. a dream sign can be like a bridge linking your waking and dreaming states - progressing mentally is not dependent on this changing. and if it's a stressor you should just use another one that is more supportive.

I think a big factor in this is that your SC knows how much you got going on in your life and blocks LDs based on if it thinks you have time for it. I could be way off but when I don't have a lot on my plate is when my SC lets me have lots of lucids.

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Originally Posted by Xaqaria

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There was a time when I considered myself a master of lucid dreaming. This view lead me to slacken in my basic habits. I stopped recording dreams that 'weren't worth it', I stopped reassuring myself that I could be lucid since I had taken it for granted. Now I'm trying to break a year long dry spell and I'm just realizing all of my mistakes now. I restarted keeping a regular dream journal and started writing down my goals every day. Basically I started over. If you accept that starting over is okay and is not an admittance of defeat, you can be back in no time.

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Rings a big bell for me...slacking and bad habits which I'm trying to break..The two hardest aspect for me are 1. Accepting that failure (scrub that) temporary inability to achieve lucidity is not an admittance of defeat.

The other aspect is the view that my Subconscious is somehow separate from me ie not within my control. ...therefore easier to "blame" it and not myself....Mmmh that's a bit of a breakthrough thought for me..

Is seeing ones Subconscious as being somehow separate peculiar to me or do others share this feeling and what do you do to bring your subconscious under control?

As depressing as it sounds, I'm relating LDs to a video game.

When you first start out, you're level 1. It's very difficult to get around, you don't do much damage, your skills are lacking. In short, You're a newbie. As you continue to play and practice, your level up, you gain more skills. Eventually, You'll be at the point where you can do anything in the game with ease, because you'll have the skills to do so.

As you try to LD and recall your dreams, You're putting more and more importance on it in your mind. Eventually, your brain will realize it is important to you and make more connections to it. It'll get easier and easier, until you can do it at will. That;s what I think. I'd say I'm about level 6 right now! =)

Intersting comparison...maybe my dry spell would be like ..your joystick/controller going on the blink!

I think lucid dreaming is like raising your awareness from 0% (except in the wild) in your dream body. To sleep, we need to drop our awareness in our real body at conscious, subconscious and unconscious levels. But in that process we almost "turn off" our conscious, then only subconscious and unconscious stay awake while switching their awareness to the dream body. WILD is basically maintaining the conscious bellow a point where you can't go to REM and above the point where your conscious sleep. With that said, it's all fault of our conscious which is too lazy and loves to sleep :roll: (hope it wasn't confusing, making sense is not my strongest skill :P).

Conscious, unconscious, subconscious....it's a confusing subject, expect we all have different views about what they are...it's only about putting our thoughts into words that we start to clarify things ,well at least for ourselves..I'm starting to have a clearer idea about where I've been going wrong...ie blaming my subconscious...when really I should have been embracing it and not seeing it as a separate entity...now I know we are a team and have set myself the goal of having become lucid again before this Christmas!
RE WILD's never done it but a couple of experiences with SP puts me right off it!