Taunted by a false lucid!

This morning I had a dream where I believed I was lucid, but looking back on it I was clearly just dreaming of being lucid (clarity, feeling, mindset, etc.) and accomplishing random dream goals. The thing that really gets me, though, is that I was able to do everything I've ever wanted to do in a lucid dream completely perfectly without even thinking about it. A very common theme for my lucid dreams is going in front of a mirror and trying to manually transform myself (I know, not recommended, but it's something I'm slowly working on, and mirrors are actually a dream sign for me). In this dream, I was flying around (haven't really accomplished in a non-lucid yet, although I have had some vivid flying dreams since I was a kid) and I landed in front of a mirror. I didn't even have to think about it, it was like a reflex, or like moving a body part. In about 1-2 seconds I saw myself morph into the another person, exactly as I wanted it, completely self-coordinated. Without even stopping to appreciate how easy it was, I simply flew off and continued what I was doing. At least I know that my mind can pull it off, now I just need to work on it in an actual lucid dream some more....

thats pretty cool, you were able to do so much. Theres a thing with mirrors though, as there is little stability in dreams, reflections tend to be innacurate - so you'll find when confronting mirrors your reflection will change before your eyes. thats also what makes it a good RC, too.

Yeah, it was definitely fun, but it was a little disappointing when I awoke and realized upon thinking back that I wasn't as lucid as I thought :P Now if I could just have that much control in my actually lucid dreams, I think my life would be complete.

Twice have I experienced these "false lucids." Both were in the middle of regular dreams, and in both I mentioned that I was dreaming.

In the first one, I looked at my watch and saw a date which I knew couldn't be true, so I figured, "I must be dreaming! This date can't be right!" The date I thought it was at the time was wrong also, but I somehow recognized that the date on the watch was incorrect. I knew I was lucid dreaming and I even said that out loud, so I performed a reality check. I looked at my watch and away and then back again, and sure enough, the time had changed. I showed this to other people in the dream, as if to affirm that I was in fact dreaming. I then remembered some of my dream goals, so I summoned a blue swirling portal to travel elsewhere, but it didn't work. I tried again, and still no success. I then forgot that I was dreaming and continued on as if nothing had happened, responding to the subsequent events as I naturally would.

Throughout that whole time I don't believe that I was lucid, as I had no control or understanding of what was going on, but I said that I was lucid.

In a different dream, I realized that I was dreaming but then dismissed it, figuring that if it really was a dream there'd be bigger crowds of people and more cops. (What was I thinking? This is certainly illogical and it makes me think I was actually dreaming regularly.) I then saw a huge crowd of people, escorted by cops, pass by. Hmm, maybe I am dreaming. Oh well, I continued the dream as if nothing had happened, just following along a string of random events that happen in all dreams, with me having no control. Later on in that same dream, a DC reminded me that it was a dream and I decided to test it by jumping out of a moving car on the highway. (Great RC, not! :D) I survived and rolled down a hill, remembered to try some dream goals and was about to, but then woke up.

My illogical actions and lack of control lead me to believe that these weren't lucid dreams. I think I have the same problem as you, knowing that I'm lucid in the dream without actually being lucid.

I'm sorry if it looks like I "hijacked" your thread, but I believe our problems are related. Perhaps dreaming that we're lucid dreaming (without actually LDing) means that we're getting close to having a DILD?

I'm looking forward to hearing an answer I this. Hopefully it will be encouraging. :D

Yes, our problems do sound similar! I haven't been doing this for that long but I have had a good few DILDs, and I think you're probably right. These false lucids could be ways that we recognize that we're dreaming, but maybe subconsciously we're not fully accustomed to the process of becoming completely lucid upon such a realization? Maybe it has to do with thinking too much about being lucid without actually doing it, so the mind considers it a normal train of thought and therefore not odd to emulate in a dream?

I'm pretty new to this whole thing (just started my personal dj a couple days ago) and I think I had a similar experience. It's hard for me to tell though because I've never had a a lucid dream before so I don't have much frame of reference.
In the dream I thought I became lucid, and I took steps to stabalize my dream (mostly looked around and touched stuff). I also thought about how normally people wake up when they become lucid and about how I probably could try to fly (I didn't for fear of waking myself up). But at the same time there were oddities about the dream that I accepted as normal (hills with very cartoonish qualities, a polar bear walking around with a wolf in the place of his cub). Not insane things, but things I thought you picked up on if you were fully lucid.

Naka, it sounds like a lucid dream to me! If you knew you were dreaming and you remembered and completed dream goals, that's pretty strong evidence you were lucid! :P

You may not have acted the way you wanted to, but sometimes even when we're lucid we can be a little ADD. With more practice, you'll be more level-headed when you get lucid instead of trying a bunch of random stuff, but hey, there's nothing wrong with running around doing random stuff when you get lucid!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GMoney7

My illogical actions and lack of control lead me to believe that these weren't lucid dreams. I think I have the same problem as you, knowing that I'm lucid in the dream without actually being lucid.

---

I can say for sure that your first dream was definitely a lucid dream. Being lucid doesn't always mean you'll think clearly right away, that you'll remember goals, that you'll act logically, or that you'll have dream control. A lucid dream is only knowing you're dreaming--nothing more, nothing less. It sounds like you DID get lucid, but you got distracted and lost lucidity later on. this can happen a lot. You don't have to be lucid throughout the entire dream for it to be a lucid dream! You can be lucid for five seconds and then forget or wake up and it's still a lucid dream.

The second dream sounds like you failed your RCs several times. This is not a "false lucid." This is just a failed RC and a nonlucid. However, at the end of the dream it sounded like you succeeded your RC because you started thinking about your goals, but you woke up before you could do anything. It's likely that you did get lucid then, just woke up. :)



But to sum it up, there really is no such thing as a false lucid. There are nonlucids, there are failed RCs, there are times where you might have a conversation with a DC about LDing and simply never stop to RC--these are all just nonlucids.

And again, you don't have to be lucid for the entire duration of the dream for it to be a lucid dream.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naiya

Naka, it sounds like a lucid dream to me! If you knew you were dreaming and you remembered and completed dream goals, that's pretty strong evidence you were lucid! :P

You may not have acted the way you wanted to, but sometimes even when we're lucid we can be a little ADD. With more practice, you'll be more level-headed when you get lucid instead of trying a bunch of random stuff, but hey, there's nothing wrong with running around doing random stuff when you get lucid!

...

Being lucid doesn't always mean you'll think clearly right away, that you'll remember goals, that you'll act logically, or that you'll have dream control. A lucid dream is only knowing you're dreaming--nothing more, nothing less.

---

I see what you're getting at. I guess what I should really say is, I was taunted by the fact that I was able to do everything I want to do in a lucid dream with complete, total control and ease, but I didn't feel personally attached to it as I would have in a lucid dream (it just feels like a non-lucid when I think back on it), so I don't really get to feel that sense of accomplishment. :roll:

I should also note that I didn't really consider it lucid because my lucid dreams have always been extremely vivid, to the point of having to find more than one piece of evidence in my dreams to convince myself that I really AM not awake once I become lucid, even back when I got my first lucid after starting a journal. This dream was fairly detailed and vivid, but it wasn't quite the caliber I'm used to.

No problem, Naka. I'm not trying to get on your case or anything--it's just that a lot of times, newbies get confused about what is or isn't a lucid dream, or they're told that their lucid dream was "false" for whatever reason...which really isn't fair to them. Luckily, you have had experience to compare your dream with lucid dreams you've had in the past, but not everyone is able to do that, so they can get confused or discouraged if their first lucid dreams aren't as vivid or controlled as another person's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naiya

No problem, Naka. I'm not trying to get on your case or anything--it's just that a lot of times, newbies get confused about what is or isn't a lucid dream, or they're told that their lucid dream was "false" for whatever reason...which really isn't fair to them. Luckily, you have had experience to compare your dream with lucid dreams you've had in the past, but not everyone is able to do that, so they can get confused or discouraged if their first lucid dreams aren't as vivid or controlled as another person's.

---

I understand what you're saying, but I have had some of these experiences also. When I have lucid dreams such as these it's more like I'm dreaming about the experience rather than having it. Like I would dream of a memory. I guess it's really considered just a very minor level of lucidity. I've always disregarded them as non-lucids though.

Yeah, I get you--sometimes, as with regular dreams, lucid dreams can be of a lower quality. For example, they might be in the third person when you would want them to be in the first person (so you'd know it's a dream, but wouldn't be able to interact any more than you would with a TV show).

I agree with Naiya - your first dream was probably more of a "dim lucid" than a "false lucid." Usually, if I'm accomplishing dream goals, I feel lucid enough, 'cause the fact that I'm working on dream goals helps remind me that I'm still dreaming, even if that fact starts to feel kind of mundane. I also tend to sometimes have what I call "lucid moment" dreams, which I don't tend to count as true lucids because I forget I'm dreaming within a few seconds of the realization. Particularly since I've been doing this on and off for 11 years and had many full-length LD's where I'm used to staying lucid through most of the dream, or at least until a series of false awakenings following an attempt at a dream goal. But if I were a newbie I'd probably count them, if not as LDs, than as "progress."

And yeah, failed reality checks are another form of nonlucid...but a little closer to being LD's than, say, false awakenings are.

I think having "dim lucids" vs. "very aware lucids" is little different from how the quality of our waking consciousness can vary between preoccupied and daydreaming (dim waking consciousness, or auto-pilot, which actuallly feels kinda like typical nonlucid dreaming 'cause everything's blah and forgettable) and being very wide-awake and attentive (the kind of awareness you try to cultivate during certain types of "mindfulness" meditation, and that tends to happen spontaneously in new and exciting situations).

I also don't tend to stay lucid for an entire dream.

Thanks for the help, Naiya and innerspacecadet! It's really encouraging to hear that these are actual LDs. Now I just need to focus during those "dim lucids" and start thinking straight. I felt like I was just going through the motions without actually thinking, and saying that I was dreaming without fully grasping the concept.

I should probably work on dream control next time, since my lack of supernatural powers in the dream seemed to make me lose lucidity.


(By the way, this is a really great site. Everyone seems willing to help "n00bs" and offer advice to get them better at lucid dreaming! Crosses Naiya off list of staff who acknowledge someone with less than 25 posts. :D)

When I become a master lucid dreamer, I'll remember this! :) Much appreciated.

Honestly, it seems to me you're making this more complicated than it is. If you knew you were in a dream. It was lucid. It's that simple. Sure, there are degrees of lucidity, sometimes you have more control than others, and sometimes you can maintain it longer than others, and sometimes you think more logically than others, but there's no requirement that while you're in the dream you perfectly and accurately remember everything going on in your waking life. If you're in the dream, and you said to yourself, this is a dream! Then it was a lucid dream.