I was just curious as to whether or not playing an instrument in a Lucid Dream would help at all at getting better at the instrument? Also, if it can, is it a significant difference between before the dream and after the dream?
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I was just curious as to whether or not playing an instrument in a Lucid Dream would help at all at getting better at the instrument? Also, if it can, is it a significant difference between before the dream and after the dream?
HAHA. Nah, I don't think it honestly will make a significant difference, though I never have. I'm a very dedicated 5/6 string bass player though. :p
Maybe something you learned/read will make more sense. Cause you can think and solve problems in lucid dreams. Some people study LDing for the sole purpose of solving problems and their questions. Say you learn mode shapes/modes. They might make no sense but if you LD and think about it, you may get it the next morning.
Thank you for the info
I don't know, I have yet to have a dream about something, as I haven't really been stumped until just this wednesday, when I was taught walking 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, and 7ths over alternating key signatures in different modes, mainly Phyrigian, Ionian, and Dorian
I think if you have a very extended depth of understanding of an instrument, pitch relativity, and music theory, then one may be able to practice an instrument in an lucid dream, but other than that, your mind will create sounds that do not correspond with what a real instrument would produce.
It would be similar to the effect of reading or writing something in a lucid dream, but to an even more distorted extent, because your mind would likely produce a sound that you WANT to hear, rather than a realistic representation of what the instrument would actually do.
For example, if you've never heard what a G# locrian scale sounded like, but someone told you all of the notes to play, and you tried to play them in a lucid dream, unless you have perfect pitch and are very gifted at music theory, it's extremely unlikely that your mind would be able to create an accurate representation of how that would sound. Keep in mind, that the dream world is based on things that you have already experienced. Even things that you've never done in waking life, such as flying, are recreated by putting together elements of other things you have experienced-- jumping, falling, wind, breeze, cold, moving fast, etc.
With music, if you've never experienced it, that sort of thing would not be reproducable because it's something specific that corresponds to something else specific, you see? Does that make sense?
Yes it does thank you for that
Good :) You're welcome!
Also, I'm very new to the idea of Lucid Dreaming. Do you think keeping a dream journal should be the first thing I start to do in order to obtain lucidity?
Yes,Quote:
Originally Posted by slush
I do believe that practicing and intstrument in a dream could help with say, piano, or fretwork on a guitar. It could however be worse that useless for instuments like the violin or trumpet.
I think that playing instruments in dreams is as effective as in waking life, if you have played the instrument before i.e. you know how to play the instrument.
My psychology teacher said that even watching the sheet music will be effective; the same neurons will be activated as they would when you actually play the instrument or something like that. Why not in dreams?
So yes, playing in dreams will help, imo.
Oh, sorry for bad English :D
Usually whenever I find myself playing an instrument in dreams I'm really good at it. I play guitar often in waking life and write music sometimes, and I find it really annoying to remember dreaming of a song that was incredible but cannot possibly replicate it. Maybe music is just more powerful in dreams?
i am also a 6 string bassist... i dont know if playing instruments really helps all that much. like it was mentioned before, you would have to have an amazing sense of your instrument and the piece you were working on to actually help. because how could it help if you play any note and it sounds good?
It trains the mind. For example if you picked up the flute only once, or the guitar only once, and learned a few scales, but you have to think in order to play them. In the dream your subconscious mind is learning it so that when you are awake you won't have to think as hard. It will be more automatic.
That is how I mastered bebop scales.
Interested in a 1999 Fender MIA Jazz 4? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by FluBB
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610677
Im looking to fund for and SR5006. :D
Great to hear aanother 6er! (Well, i'm a 6er, love 6s, etc. etc. etc. but I don't have a 6.)
But yes, all that is true.
oh no.. not an ibanez!!!
one day you will see the light and get a carvin. i have a 15yr old LB76 and works like a dream. sorry i actually am interested in that bass but dont have the money ha ha. but back to the discussion..
that is so cool, i have only really thought of it as being a way to learn NEW songs, not practice regular old stuff like scales. it does make sense that people would be more comfortable with what they are playing if they play in in their dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut
I don't have much experience LDing (just a few with very little control), but I definatley think that you can become better at any musical instrument by practicing it in a dream.
Take guitar for instance...you have a piece of music that you know like the back of your hand..you know exactly where to put your fingers to play any certain part of the tune. You just want to practice to know the piece better. If you know a tune to this extent, what is the difference between practicing the piece in waking life or dream life? As you practice in your dream..it feels just the same as everyday normal practice and therefore becomes easier to play through in your waking life because it increases hearing, sight, and muscle memory. I think that this technique can work with any instrument.
On a different note..I don't think that it is possible to actually write a song on your instrument and remember it when you wake up. You might remember where to put your fingers, or how the tune sounds...but the two won't match up unless you can write a tune in waking life without having your instrument in front of you. In a dream..the notes come out sounding how YOU want them to.
Sorry to ramble..but in short - I think LDing can be a good way to develop cleaner playing; and also practice pieces and teqniques already learned...but it doesn't help much when used to try and learn new material in a dream.
FluBB, can you tell me if this looks familiar to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by FluBB
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/image....ine=1172414395
Mottus, as an accomplished bass player, I don't believe any of what you're saying is very true. There is a point where what you play is only to play it cleaner. However, you can't practice without the instrument. No matter how well you know the piece, the pressure you apply, your floating thumb, your action, your intonation, and the reactions to all that, will be off in a dream.Quote:
Steinberger XQ2 w/ EMG BQC preamp
MIM Deluxe Jazz
Sadowsky RV5
Carvin LB76 w/ Bartolini NTMB preamp
Carvin BX500
Bergantino HT/EX 112's
Hi jarrhead, it's great to find other musicians also interested in LDing! No disrespect, but I DO believe that you can practice a piece of music without your instrument. You say that the pressure, and reactions etc will be off in the dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrhead
That may be true for some people...but in my case, I study guitar at a university where I am required to play the same pieces over and over again every single day. The focus is on playing the piece the exact same way every single time so that when you walk on stage in front of people, you won't be nervous, because you have played the piece the exact same way a countless number of times.
If I already know how the pressure, reactions etc..will feel like in waking life (because they are the same every time), then they will also be the same when I go to practice the piece in my dream.
Hey mottus,Quote:
Originally Posted by MottusTa
Reading music and doing repetetive motions such as scale shapes and mode shapes, could work. Since you are thinking are building your muscle memory.
The results of playing a musical piece that is something other than just scales over and over and over again, but written out, will not be exactly the same. Therefore I find it highly unlikely.
Let's say you were to practice your phyrigian shapes or some other mode. (I get lost after the second mode.) Then yes, you could practice. As you won't be focusing on the sounds, but your shapes instead. This is building up muscle memory for something relatively new to you.
I understand where your coming from J..and this makes a lot of sense. But If you are at the stage, in learning a piece of music, where you have it totally memorized...you can just pick up a dream guitar, play through the piece as you do in waking life, and improve muscle memory on the peice of music. Just the same as you could build muscle memory for scales and other techniques.
When I practice in waking life...I pay attention to my finger placement, the sound produced, and every little sensation I feel to play every note or chord. In my waking life I can visualize a part of a song and imagine how all of those details would feel if I were actaully playing it. I think that if you can do this..it is possible to practice playing a piece you know very well in your dreams. But again you have to know the piece very well before you can do this I think.
Just a thought: As part of my practice routine, my professor makes me put ear plugs in, and do nothing but look at the sheet music and imagine all the physical sensations you would feel if you were playing. It seems to me that dream practice can almost replace this part of my practice routine.
Yes, keeping a journal absolutely is the first thing you should do. I use a voice-activated recorder so I don't even have to move. I can just start talking. Then you can listen later and type it up if you want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by slush
But as a dream you may have distorted sounds. You're not fully conscious unless you're highly lucid. And if you're not lucid at all, there's still a chance the sounds will be off.
Say you're building muscle memory, you're also building hearing memory. You know how aggravating it is before you learn to keep going when you hit a wrong note. In a dream, even if your muscles are working fine, you may be hearing off-key. Even if it's just by 2 cents, it adds up across the strings. I would say it is ALMOST impossible to get it down to the 440 frequency with each note.
i'm afraid it doesnt, but i do like the gear you posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrhead
heres what i think. you can obviously get a good idea for a new song through dreams. tons of artists claim to get a lot of inspiration in their dreams. but i think the fine line is that you could get a melody or a verse, but if you were playing it on a instrument, i believe that it would be impossible to duplicate it exactly. not many people have a perfect knowledge of their instrument. you would need to know every note on your instrument in and out. obvioiusly thats possible but not very common with the regular old musician... i have what they call "absolute pitch" and i still find the idea nearly impossible.
I have great ear-training abilities as well, and I still don't see this very likely.
The picture & gear was taken from the profile of a guy who tried to trade me a 6 string carvin for my jazz. You're a 6er and a Carvin guy so who knows. :D
I think it all has to do with how well your ear is so you KNOW what each interval is supposed to sound like automatically without thinking about it. If you can hear a song on a radio and just know how to play it automatically without your instrument around, you could write songs in a dream.
i think the hardest part of it would be to try and remember it after the fact.. ive had so many good songs after waking up and then going to the piano or the bass or the guitar to try and figure it out but it always leaves me before i get there. how would you suggest actually taking it out of the dream world?
FluBB, i've had this problem. I always get good riffs before sleeping. Multi-instrumental..
:(
lol yeah.. its the pits.. but its nice to see that you have accepted your identity as the post whore lol. really you are nuts. you have way more then me and ive been a member for 4 years now... good for you tho.
I read an article...
It stated that the same neurons are activated/released, whatever, in your dream as in real life. For example, if you practice running in your dream, the same neurons are used as if you were running in real life. So, if you know all of the notes on a guitar, and you expect the guitar to play normally in your dream, it might work as expected. You have to expect it to work normally, if you think that the pitches will be off because it's a dream, they will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamosus
I have played my accoustic for a few years, and I'm not that bad. I am planning to get a good electric, like a les paul studio, or standard. I can't buy it for a few months. When I have an LD, I really hope I can find a les paul and play it right. I know what they sound like and all, because I have messed around with my friends.
My dad has a les paul studio and a gibson marauder. As well as an ibanez & sigma acoustic.
That studio is a nice guitar. Though I personally prefer an Ibanez Prestige.
Then again, i'm a bassist. My guitar taste isn't extremely picky. For a bass i need 19mm spacing, bartolini soapbars, mahogany fretboard, maple or wenge/bubinga neck, mahogany or ash body. String gauges .150-.60 or so, roundwounds (5 string). A bolt on neck. And much much more. :D
Yeah, you have to know what all of the sounds sound like that the instrument makes. I'm a pianist(1 1/2 years), and I know all of the notes and I'm able to make songs in my lucid dreams. Its really fun.
Yeah, see with a stringed instrument any flaw in technique will change the sound.
That is the tricky part. Not much luck I've had. Some, but the song doesn't have the emotional impact that it did in the dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by FluBB
But, Paul McCartney's song "Yesterday" was from his dream. He says that tothis day he doesn't know if he wrote it or heard the music somewhere and then dreamt about it.
I agree. As someone with extremely good relative pitch, and extensive study in music theory, and several instruments, I'm telling you, unless you are a mutant freak of nature who has memorized the frequencies of sounds in relation to note values based on A440, and you've found a way to accurately translate those to the dreamstate, and verify for certain that those pitches remain the same when your MIND is CREATING them, you cannot do something like learn a new song on an instrument in a dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrhead
It's just not feasible. I believe that if you have a photographic memory, and have seen a piece hundreds of times, and you know exactly how it looks on the page, you might be able to memorize it by SIGHT... MAYBE. Keeping in mind of course that if words change when you try to read them, 'written' musical notes probably do as well.
But your mind will inaccurately portray the sounds that correspond with actions that would not realistically create those sounds in waking reality. There is so much fabrication of things happening in your mind, that you'd have a misrepresented form of whatever you're practicing, and it would not crossover into waking reality, and even if it did, you would have memorized the INACCURACIES of your mind trying to create music, and it would more likely be DESTRUCTIVE to your playing ability in waking reality. Just my opinion.
I know what you mean ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TristanPetrosky
That said, I've been playing the piano for quite some time. I play a lot of Chopin. My most recent piece is the Ballade No. 4 in F minor. I can play most of it decently. I thought I would try to practice it in a lucid dream to really capitalize on practice time. Unfortunately, even though I knew I was focusing on trying to get all of the right notes, realizing that it was a dream, I still played the piece almost perfectly in my dream, although I can't play it nearly perfectly in waking reality. This is because the mind creates what it wants to hear. It has nothing to do with the actions. Or at least, very little to do with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainman
I don't know what instruments you play, but bass is all about shapes. Since we are tuned consistantly across all 4-7 strings, (five-seven here) then we can learn like this. Guitars, however, have inconsistant tuning from G to B. It should be a C, as with 6 string basses. If I ever mess around I tune EADGCF. :D
We don't memorize notes. Not at all! Sure, we know where they are on the fretboard so that we can play over chord changes and lock a key, but from there it's all SHAPES.
You may not understand substution chords (I call this chordal modes..) It's like playing modes, except for chords, not scales. I cannot imagine thinking of the noted structure, such as saying "Okay, play an E, G, and B over this CMaj7 chord.."
I would say "Lets play off the third of this E and play the chord tones."
From there, I would use shapes. I even use shapes to get there. I know that the third is one finger left on the root (using middle finger as home.) I then know to use 4th finger, third, and third again. I don't have to say that to myself, but it's instictive.
Point i'm trying to make is (wow I got WAYY off topic..) that i would memorize by shapes, not by relative pitch. Although I would keep it buried in my head incase my shape is flawed.
I understand what you're saying. Yes I understand all of that, I majored in music theory (jazz theory) in college. ;) I've played guitar for almost 10 years now, so I understand about shapes too. And you're right, that is very instinctive. But what I'm saying is, you can't practice and learn something you haven't done before on an instrument in a lucid dream, and you can't even play something if it's of even moderate complexity in a way that would translate to the waking reality.
Well i'm 14, so I have NO idea what you learn in college. :D
And I agree with you.
P.S. - I want to major in Jazz Theory, Pro Tools, Audio Engineering, and Music Entreprenuership.
studying music in college is quite different then you might imagine :) I was studying upright bass for a couple semesters until i realized it wasnt for me. but lets see what we agree on.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrhead
Its impossible to:
read sheet music
learn new techniques
practice unfamiliar songs
improve at any song you know well
its possible to:
.... i dont even know
I have no experience with such, but I believe it may be possible to read sheet music. If you're already experienced and it's not straining your brain.
I come from an orchestral viola background. I know alto clef, and even though bass clef is just half-off, it's difficult.
how about one of you experienced lders who play an instrument try it out?
i would... unfortunately im in a dry spell... but its one of the first things on my list. i think i remember trying it once, but it was a big failure because i couldnt concentrate hard enough.
I tried it out today. I had a dream that I was on Guitar Pro 5 with a piano piece I've been working on. There were changes in it that sounded great. I remembered it when I woke up and I tried to replay it by ear. It was impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowaie
I also tried to play by the notation up top, impossible.
And the tab under it. Didn't work either.
I understand about shapes. Music is shapes, shapes of intervals.Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrhead
That being said, I play guitar, mandolin, banjo, sitar, oud, flute, violin, piano, bass, and percussion. I specialize in string instruments and am familiar with many different tunings, and even fretless instruments. All the shapes are different. When I pick up a new instrument I run through a few basic songs to get familiar with the intervals and shapes. "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" is good. Then I know how to play the instrument. I can't read sheet music but I know every scale and mnay arabic and Indian scales. I also know about cultural uses of harmony and accidentals. So I learn by ear. And hearing a song in a dream, I know how to play it. Hearing a song on the radio, i know how to play it, unless it is very technically demanding.
But I think that you Can get better at playing a song you already know by dreaming to play it, just like how many athletes like gymnasts practice visuallizing the routine on the parallel bars.
As far as reading sheet music, that must be very hard. But hearing a song revealed to you in a dream isn't a problem for me. It is just that it doesn't sound as great during waking life. A simple chord change like G to C back to G can sound amazing in a dream, but it is hard to make it sound exciting dring waking life.
I've heard that "Greensleeves" was also written from a dream.