Your thoughts on waking life vs. dreaming life

So, I was just thinking, who is to say this world in which we are in right now, going to work every day, eating 3 meals a day, going to dreamviews.com and other things, is even real? Just because we feel like we spend most of our time here, does not mean this is the real thing. Our dreams could be what our life really is, but because it's less clear we choose to think it's not real. I know some people will probably critisize and say it's not true, but you can't prove to me that it isn't.

As i progress in Lucid dreaming, i would like to maybe put more and mor efocus on my dream worlds. maybe certain people in existance put more emphasis on dream worlds, so that is their real life, and some people put more emphasis in this world, which makes this their real world. Who's to say someone who views dreaming as their world doesn't try to "lucid dream" to go into this one?

far fetched ideas i know lol

Eh, well, living a second life in a lucid shouldn't be that hard.
Personally, instead of wondering which one is real, I take each one as a separate life, dreams are real while asleep, but dreams while awake, and awake is reality while awake, and the other life while asleep.

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Originally Posted by pdiddles03

So, I was just thinking, who is to say this world in which we are in right now, going to work every day, eating 3 meals a day, going to dreamviews.com and other things, is even real? Just because we feel like we spend most of our time here, does not mean this is the real thing.

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You said it. Do you know what a convention of names is?

Try this, stop breathing and then tell me how many dreams you have.

If you do not know what the word "real" means, can you even use it in a sentence as if it were defined?

Do you believe in the Matrix philosophy of using terms that have no more than a NOP signification?

One would think that after over 2500 years of asking that question, the answer would be obvious by now. Try writing a computer program with undefined terms---that should keep you busy a very long time.

You should have learned in Elementary Set Theory, that a definition determines class membership. If you were paying attention, this means that a definition determines what may or may not be predicated (assertion or denial) of any thing.

Now, since there are three, and only three primitive categories of names, and only one can be defined (things) the other two categories -names of forms and names of material difference, must be abstracted. In all cases, the whole system is founded upon a convention of names--shared experience.

I think about this a lot too. Have you ever watched the first Matrix movie? Morpheus explained how reality and dreams are similar very well. He told Neo something like: "What is real? If you think what you see around you is real you are only seeing chemical interpretations created by your brain (not what he said but close, go watch it!).

Also can't help but add Einstien's quote on the matter: "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one". Now if I could only learn to LD properly.

Dreaming 'branches' out from our waking life. Without us being in our world where we are awake (reality) we wouldn't have dreams. Dreaming is sort of a feature/part of being in our awake reality.

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Originally Posted by MatrixMaster92

I think about this a lot too. Have you ever watched the first Matrix movie? Morpheus explained how reality and dreams are similar very well. He told Neo something like: "What is real? If you think what you see around you is real you are only seeing chemical interpretations created by your brain (not what he said but close, go watch it!).

Also can't help but add Einstien's quote on the matter: "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one". Now if I could only learn to LD properly.

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There are many way of saying what was said a long time ago, "Man is the measure of all things." The disproof of the statement is rather simple. You will find it in the works of Plato. Putting lip-stick and a dress on it don't change what it is.

At the foundation of language, it is not the abstraction that is conventionalized, it is the source of the abstraction. So, the argument that uses abstractions, which are not conventionalizable, has always been a false argument.

To put it in simple terms, we do not agree about what a potato is after we have eaten it, but before.

The best argument, is of course, based on your own biology, or the biology of any living organism. There is not one that abstact things, they abstract either a things form, or a things material difference. One cannot know the thing in itself--often quoted, but hardly understood.

Abstractions from things are not the things from which they were abstracted. One can use the fact that the part is not equal to the whole even when using the Two-Element metaphysics.

Of concern, however, is the fact that some people cannot distinguish well between the real and not real, which is symptomatic.

Now, since the mind is only one environmental acquisition system, why don't someone try to convince me that the hamburger they ate are the real cows but cows they have not eaten are not. duh.

Shit, Micky D's has just become the new dominant religion.

Wouldn't it be nice if schools taught something?

God, it's really hard to understand you, Philosopher8659. I think I got the gist of your posts, though... I think.

I think philosopher8659 is just trying to confuse people. I'm not understanding if he is calling my questions stupid, or intelligent lol

If no one had told you what a dream is, or "why" it exists, but you still had them every night what would be your conclusion? You have a world that can be 100% as real as your waking life, the only difference being it isn't as consistent.

My conclusion would be that they must both be of the same or similar nature. The flower inside my dream looks, feels and smells the same as a flower in waking life.

It is only after you have been told what dreams are by society and scientists that you draw your conclusion. They tell you they are by-products of the brain, "not real" when compared to your waking reality. These same scientists have almost no clue as to how the brain produces consciousness in the first place, yet we take their word as authority.

Personal, direct experience should always take precedence.

If you believe dreams are entirely a by product of the brain and of a different nature than "the real world," and you cam to this conclusion because of what society thinks, you are trusting an abstraction. For there are people in society who believe this, and there are people who have very different views. Is it really wise to just choose a side based on which has the majority?

That's an interesting point of view, but I still believe that our waking life holds a little more sincerity and realism than our dreams. I mean, death is only possible in our waking life, thus what can end our consciousness is reality.

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Originally Posted by thompsonhunt

I mean, death is only possible in our waking life, thus what can end our consciousness is reality.

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Just playing the devil's advocate here, but who's to say that when we die our consciousness ends at all? I mean we don't know what really happens when we die.. for all we know you just go off into the dream world and never wake up. What if that's the true definition of heaven and hell? Like someone who lives a good life and doesn't have any deep seeded regrets or issues creates their own perfect peaceful existence (or non-existence) and the ones who haven't lived a life as a decent person will be trapped in their sub-conscious constantly going over there mistakes or something. And that would consist of the rest of your eternity. If that were the case I'd say the dream world would be more real in the aspect that it would outlive or waking bodies...

Haha could be a little far-fetched, but like I said, just throwing some ideas out there.

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Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

Try this, stop breathing and then tell me how many dreams you have.

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Ah, did you read the OP? Because it seems like you either didn't, or was unable to comprehend the full message that was in there <.<
Basically, it is saying that this reality is a dream, so if you stop breathing, that won't make you stop from dreaming, just make you wake up in something else. Just like dying in a dream won't stop you from living out here.

Double post, delete.

What happens when your dream IS going to work, eating three meals, taking a shower, and then chatting on DreamViews. Then you wake up, to repeat it all over again! Then what?

It's when dreams accurately mimic waking life, that I wake up wondering, if I have ever been awake :panic:

that's a good idea djsuspense, and I actually condone that possibility. I was doing the same as you in essence since I really don't know what happens when you die, however, I accept all possibilities. If when we died, we went into a lucid dream, that would be amazing though

You know if you really think about reality and what it is that makes something "real" to us, you could say that it's nothing more than the fact that we experienced it. Sure, waking life is constant and stable from our subjective point of view, but that doesn't make it any more real than any other experience we've had.

Since when we're asleep we're either unconscious or conscious and dreaming, it could be said that the time we spend dreaming is just as real to just in a subjective sense than reality. I'm not trying to make any claims and waking life vs. dreaming, I just find this a fun way to think about it...

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Originally Posted by fhgshfdg

You know if you really think about reality and what it is that makes something "real" to us, you could say that it's nothing more than the fact that we experienced it. Sure, waking life is constant and stable from our subjective point of view, but that doesn't make it any more real than any other experience we've had.

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Personally I think that experience is the only thing that is real. There is no objective "out there" apart from our perception of it.

Reality is, in a sense, a mass shared dream. It doesn't exist outside of consciousness.

Funny that people put so much faith in a objective material universe, when the only thing they have or ever will experience is consciousness.

If I could do anything I wanted in a dream life,
why would I enjoy real life?

:(