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    Thread: meditation

    1. #1
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      meditation

      I feel like maybe trying to learn this. What i wanna know is is there any evidence telling you if meditation is real or you just fall asleep due to your eyes being shut and shutting everything off (like falling asleep), and expierience this via the dream world.

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      Yes.

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      in meditation i get enclosed into my head , its an explanation a bit empty but you have to experience it for yourself sit on your buttom breath in and out count the breaths breathe with your stomache loose count of your breaths and just observe them happen and in five to ten/20 minutes you will be enclosed in your own head
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      Angry

      Quote Originally Posted by IAmCoder View Post
      Yes.
      Hey now, I actually liked his question and expected an actual thorough answer. That was rude of you and unappreciated!

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      There's research done on people in a state of mindfulness while hooked up to EEGs. They found not only that there's a dramatic change in brain function but that people who practice mindfulness enough actually keep this as their permanent wakeful state.

      Mindfulness, whether it's sitting meditation, walking meditation or activity meditation, is essentially an act of watching yourself as you watch the world. I've also heard it described as reveling on the perceiving function. It is a state of resistance free alertness.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Well you do fall asleep, in a way. Whats happening is that you are remaining conscious while the mind goes into states which normally only occur when you lose consciousness - sleeping. The reason this is interesting or worth pursing is that you find these states contain a vast reservoir of awareness, of which your conscious mind was merely the tip of an iceberg. Sleeping states only seem the way they do now because you have blacked out. There is actually more consciousness in levels beyond your waking mind, its just that you blank out and don't experience them currently.

      Also the whole process of observing your mind will, over time, cause you to understand yourself, allowing your personality to integrate. So your overall sense of well-being will increase as your psyche falls into alignment, which extends beyond the time you spend sitting in one place with your eyes closed.

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      Dunno how technical you want it. but.

      meditation is real or you just fall asleep
      Meditation is very real and is considered an altered state (or a discrete state) of consciousness. The best way to describe what is going on is like Omnis Dei did

      is essentially an act of watching yourself as you watch the world. I've also heard it described as reveling on the perceiving function
      Or in other words "you make your own awareness the content of your awareness"

      They found not only that there's a dramatic change in brain function but that people who practice mindfulness enough actually keep this as their permanent wakeful state.
      This can be disputed a bit, there is an altered state of functioning while meditation is going on, meditation is still a deliberate intentional activity so while some very experienced meditators do "keep" it as a state of awareness it might be more correct to say that they "choose" to keep it up while they interact with the world (which is a very difficult achievement btw, I find it difficult enough to achieve with my eyes closed). What is more interesting is not the altered state of functioning (which happens when you switch from any task to another anyways) but the altered brain anatomy in long term meditators, though it is unclear what actual implications this has for our higher mental functions.

      Also a certain functional network of the brain that is normally activated during normal rest, deactivates during meditation (or any other cognitive task), pointing to the fact that it can be considered more like mental task than rest. This basically just serves to clarify that meditation does not = rest or sleep.

      Can supply additional details if needed, material is gathered from an article named Mindfulness, meditation and brain processes from 2011. The article sums up some key findings of meditation while also presenting new fMRI studies of long term meditators.
      Last edited by Vesterguard; 09-28-2011 at 11:50 PM.
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      It depends on what you mean when you ask "is it real?" Is what real? Meditation means so many different things to different people.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil Toad View Post
      Well you do fall asleep, in a way. Whats happening is that you are remaining conscious while the mind goes into states which normally only occur when you lose consciousness - sleeping. The reason this is interesting or worth pursing is that you find these states contain a vast reservoir of awareness, of which your conscious mind was merely the tip of an iceberg. Sleeping states only seem the way they do now because you have blacked out. There is actually more consciousness in levels beyond your waking mind, its just that you blank out and don't experience them currently.

      Also the whole process of observing your mind will, over time, cause you to understand yourself, allowing your personality to integrate. So your overall sense of well-being will increase as your psyche falls into alignment, which extends beyond the time you spend sitting in one place with your eyes closed.
      No. This is a trance. Meditation can only enhance your focus and ability to relax so you can put yourself into a trance at greater ease. But the two are not the same. (Not mutually exclusive either, but it's important to clear misconceptions. The Dalai Lama meditates, he does not go into a trance.)
      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 09-29-2011 at 06:24 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Replicon View Post
      It depends on what you mean when you ask "is it real?" Is what real? Meditation means so many different things to different people.
      I just mean are you really in these states, or you just nod off to sleep and think you're in these states. Sometimes at work i'm in a state of complete peace it feels like, i'm looking for a way to unlock it so i can be in this state more often then rarely.
      Last edited by LucidFlanders; 09-30-2011 at 03:06 AM.

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      If you read the above posts, you'll find the answer to your question (the difference is very clear)

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Quote Originally Posted by LucidFlanders View Post
      I just mean are you really in these states, or you just nod off to sleep and think you're in these states. Sometimes at work i'm in a state of complete peace it feels like, i'm looking for a way to unlock it so i can be in this state more often then rarely.
      Ah I see. You're definitely not supposed to just nod off and sleep. That's not meditation. That's sleeping. You can accomplish that with a simple trip to my old communication systems class where I nicknamed the lecturer Prince Valium (in honour of Spaceballs).

      You still didn't explain though. What are "these states" anyway? You definitely shift gears inside your mind. When you learn anything new, you make new connections, and you get better and better at those new things, until it becomes second nature. Think back to the first time you learned to drive, or the first time you went skiing, compared to now. Same is true for meditation. You learn to access different states of mind (where "skiing well" really is no different - it's also a "state of mind" - I do believe your progress is very much the same).

      It really depends on how you look at it. I'm a skeptic, and require good data/science. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good meditation. Or like if you do chi breathing. People will say "that tingling feeling is energy flowing through your body, and it makes you more aware." I think it's more like, there's blood camped out in large organs, and by breathing like that, you circulate more blood and oxygen, which gives you that feeling. But when I DO it, I pretend it's "energy" because it's an easier model to use in real life.

      So I'm still not sure if when you say "these states" you're talking about some specific spiritual interpretation or not. That's entirely up to you. But yes, the more you do something, the more easy it is to do that thing, and that includes relaxing, and feeling specific emotions. People who are always depressed are really good at it cause they practice a lot. People who are always chill are really good at it too, for the same reason.

      What states are you hoping to achieve? What is the real-life impact you want to have by taking up a meditation practice?

      One such state you mention is the feeling of peace at work. Yeah, if you practice feeling at peace, you'll have an easier time getting there. But if you really pay attention to what that peace feels like at work while you're experiencing it (there must be a way for you to KNOW you're at peace), you can probably also get there by just remembering what it feels like in vivid detail. Kind of like when I'm walking home from work, and I think of a funny conversation I was in, I can't help but smile and feel good.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      No. This is a trance. Meditation can only enhance your focus and ability to relax so you can put yourself into a trance at greater ease. But the two are not the same. (Not mutually exclusive either, but it's important to clear misconceptions. The Dalai Lama meditates, he does not go into a trance.)
      Maybe dealing with semantics here. I consider the loftier goals of mediation as bringing awareness to hidden mental process, and beyond that formless empty consciousness. These states are usually recorded as theta and delta brain waves, the former being subconscious information and the latter formless consciousness - both also occurring while dreaming (theta) and deep sleep (delta). So maybe your labeling that as a trance, and thinking of meditation as just focused awareness, which to me seems simply groundwork for deeper levels.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil Toad View Post
      Maybe dealing with semantics here. I consider the loftier goals of mediation as bringing awareness to hidden mental process, and beyond that formless empty consciousness. These states are usually recorded as theta and delta brain waves, the former being subconscious information and the latter formless consciousness - both also occurring while dreaming (theta) and deep sleep (delta). So maybe your labeling that as a trance, and thinking of meditation as just focused awareness, which to me seems simply groundwork for deeper levels.
      I'm mostly interested in setting people off in the right direction and this means not assuming meditation is similar to going to sleep. The alertness is key. If you go into a trance but reclaim your alertness to the present moment and your alertness of your being, then you are in a meditative trance. I would not call what Edgar Cayce did meditation, though.

      It seems pertinent to this thread that we are very clear as to the difference between meditation and other states of consciousness. While you can meditate into a trance, it's confusing as to what that means until you've meditated for long enough.

      I prefer to discuss meditation in 3 steps: Focus of breath, awareness of breath, awareness of self. This is not the only way to meditate but it keeps one moving in the right direction.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Can someone tell me why i can't seem to get passed my neck when feeling my inner body? I got some kind of block there. I've been meditating for 3 days using this video.

      Inner Body Meditation -- Eckhart Tolle Webcast - YouTube

      I can feel most of the body parts, although my feet do not warm up that much, or hands like the rest of my body does, but once i get to my neck it feels like a struggle, then i guess only a tiny bit can squeeze by and i can feel my head just a tiny bit but it's kinda tingly, instead of warm like the other parts of my body.

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      Quote Originally Posted by LucidFlanders View Post
      Can someone tell me why i can't seem to get passed my neck when feeling my inner body? I got some kind of block there. I've been meditating for 3 days using this video.

      Inner Body Meditation -- Eckhart Tolle Webcast - YouTube

      I can feel most of the body parts, although my feet do not warm up that much, or hands like the rest of my body does, but once i get to my neck it feels like a struggle, then i guess only a tiny bit can squeeze by and i can feel my head just a tiny bit but it's kinda tingly, instead of warm like the other parts of my body.
      Try relaxing more. Breathing deep and slow may help. Just let go

      To the OP, I believe meditation to be very real. Your experience will be the proof.

      I believe meditation to be a state of nothingness or no-mind. I'm pretty sure something profound and intense arises out of this state and you can feel it yourself, I know I have.

      We as humans tend to cling or identify with the "mind". I don't claim to be an expert meditator or a guru and I still cling to the mind sometimes...it's mostly out of habit but you definitely know when you are dis-identified because it feels alien not to think at all. To be out of your mind.

      Once you are out of your mind for a certain amount of time, you start feeling the surge of energy, the aliveness, the passion, the intensity!

      Sometimes I hit that threshold, sometimes I don't and remain identified. It really takes conscious effort, dedication, patience, and relaxation

      I don't see how most enlightened or zen masters can relax in this state , it usually makes me want to "fly off the rails" lol
      Last edited by Majestic; 11-11-2011 at 12:32 AM.
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      Thanks, will try it. My goal is to find peace, but i also wanna try an OBE just to see what it's like but it's much too early for me to think about that. When i'm meditating i mostly just try and focus on my breath, and to feel my inner self. Basically just have my whole body full of warmth from head to toe because it feels comfortable. I also wanna have a profound expierience like finally realizing it, and knowing i'm 1 with the universe. I don't plan to build my life around this, but it would be nice to get into say shelters helping people in need or something. I realized without knowing it that my whole life i have been helping people, which has lead me to getting used many times, but i like doing it, even if it's simple things like helping someone lift something heavy. I guess realizing that made me wanna do this, although my dog dieing (first pet that died in my life), i've had this thing in me wanting to learn the spiritual side of life. It's come off and on, but it's always coming back so why not try this stuff out.

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