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    Thread: Guess I'm a newager

    1. #1
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      Guess I'm a newager

      Pretty much it. Just thought that you all would get a kick.

      Reincarnation - kinda
      Auras - seen 'em
      "energy" - feel it
      manifestation - seen it work

      well that was a complete 180, huh? Questions? Comments?
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

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      But... I thought you were rational.

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      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      To me, it's irrational to deny the existence of your experiences.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Of course it is. If he's experienced something supernatural or w/e then sure, he has reason to believe it. But, based on my experience of never seeing anything remotely supernatural, and my experience of witnessing other people seeing the same things as I do but attributing them to paranormal things when they really don't have sufficient reason to, I'd say it's extremely unlikely.
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      What's manifestation and how have you seen it work? I'm curious.

      By the way , I expect a book coming out anytime now where you tell people how to connect with their inner starfish.
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      Okay. Dismissive comments aside, I am wondering why someone as rationally minded as you believes in that stuff.

      So, why do you believe it? Or more specifically, I'm sure you know that the brain is capable of generating strange experiences. People hallucinate and feel euphoric connectedness with the world, and that specifically has been correlated with certain brain states that can be inflicted upon the subject in the lab. People's senses of spacial distance in their brains are messed with, and as a result they feel like everything in the world is right there with them, which is where the feeling of 'oneness' comes from. Knowing that stuff like this can happen, that the brain is prone to this type of thing, why do you believe that this energy you feel is really there?

      If some obvious manifestation occurs that is presented to you and to other witnesses, then I might understand believing in it. Even then, I'd question my own sanity. I'd probably try to get it tested somehow, so that it can be scientifically verified so that I know I'm not seeing things and that the person wasn't playing a trick. Have you done anything like this? I guess I'm just asking why, in general.
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      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      I'm wondering why you think just because something has a material manifestation that means it doesn't have a mystical side, as well.
      PhilosopherStoned likes this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      To me, it's irrational to deny the existence of your experiences.
      To me, it's irrational to deny the absurdity of existence.

    9. #9
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Absurdism is my very, very, very most favorite philosophy.

      But I love my experiences. I love having eyes that are open to anything without worrying about whether or not its true.
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      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      LD's this year: ~7 tommo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      I'm wondering why you think just because something has a material manifestation that means it doesn't have a mystical side, as well.
      It does, the mystical side just exists in your mind though.

    11. #11
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      Yeah but people act like the mind is not real, like the innerverse does not exist. Just because there's a material explanation for Oneness doesn't mean everything is separate.
      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 10-23-2011 at 01:57 AM.
      PhilosopherStoned likes this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      LD's this year: ~7 tommo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      Yeah but people act like the mind is not real, like the innerverse does not exist. Just because there's a material explanation for Oneness doesn't mean everything is separate.
      I agree. We are just perceiving neurons firing and chemical reactions as whatever we imagine, a nice dreamscape. Similarly, we are just perceiving chemicals and energy interacting as whatever we see, a table or a tree.
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      my mind is the only thing I can be sure of as existing, everything else I just believe exists

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      I am the reincarnation of Alexander the Great, believe it.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Dreams4free View Post
      I am the reincarnation of Alexander the Great, believe it.
      Can't be, he plays for the Capitals.

    16. #16
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dianeva View Post
      So, why do you believe it? Or more specifically, I'm sure you know that the brain is capable of generating strange experiences. People hallucinate and feel euphoric connectedness with the world, and that specifically has been correlated with certain brain states that can be inflicted upon the subject in the lab.
      You're not trying to encourage people to eat shrooms too are you?

      Aside from that, you're making metaphysical assumptions about how reality operates. The fact that these brain states can be "inflicted" on people in the lab is no justification of the materialist model of reality and can peacefully coexist with a wide variety of models.

      People's senses of spacial distance in their brains are messed with, and as a result they feel like everything in the world is right there with them, which is where the feeling of 'oneness' comes from.
      This is a perfect example of "scientifically" minded people makes asses of themselves.

      Postulating that spacial distortion (a lot of fun by the way) is responsible for the feeling of "oneness" is bs. It's my experience that people fall into two broad camps concerning "oneness":

      1) the universe is a near infinitely connected network of causality of which we are a mere part

      2) we are all part of some creators plan

      My tastes run towards the former but either way, we're all in this thing together. The feeling to which you're refering is better viewed as one of the foundations of humanity than as some chemical state to be "inflicted". The fact that there are chemicals which induce it is convenient but it should be cultivated in regular states of mind as well.

      All this stuff exists with no drugs. And it's better that way.

      Knowing that stuff like this can happen, that the brain is prone to this type of thing, why do you believe that this energy you feel is really there?
      You've not said one thing to convince me that it isn't there. With a sober mind, I can feel it and manipulate it in a manner that is mostly consistent and predictable. The fact that experiences in my reality correspond to experiences in your reality in no way means that your reality explains mine.

      Different metaphysical assumptions lead to different explanations for experiences and this in turn leads to different realities that we live in. Why not use and employ multiple models if it's convenient to do so? They all have strengths and weaknesses.

      It's sort of like quantum jumping between realities. Or picking the right tool for the job.

      If some obvious manifestation occurs that is presented to you and to other witnesses, then I might understand believing in it. Even then, I'd question my own sanity.
      I find it to be an incredibly useful model. Obviously they're all just coincidences or the lucky result of weak to moderate work from the materialist perspective.


      I'd probably try to get it tested somehow, so that it can be scientifically verified so that I know I'm not seeing things and that the person wasn't playing a trick. Have you done anything like this? I guess I'm just asking why, in general.
      It's a daily part of my life. The only reason that you have so much faith in science that you never directly experience is because it's a daily part of yours. I too have much faith in science and have not made one statement that in any way contradicts any empirically verifiable fact that I am aware of.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

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      I'm not saying that what you believe in is impossible. It just seems to me that if you apply Occam's Razor to reality, the viewpoint that auras, 'energy', etc. don't exist is the one that makes the most sense. We already have a model of how reality works (on a superficial level, at least) that accounts for almost everything. Why would you need to add extra 'baggage' beliefs about reality that require new models and further explaining, when you can explain it a lot more easily using the current model?

      If you're experiencing something every day that requires a new model of reality to make sense of, then I agree that you are justified in believing it. Of course, no one else is justified in believing it based on the experience you alone have.

      I would like to know what you're experiencing, and how you came to be able to experience it. If what you believe is real, I'd definitely like to know about it and learn how to experience it myself.
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    18. #18
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
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      The feeling of Oneness is not only available with drugs. It's available all the time. One can essentially shift their attention from their left hemisphere to their right hemisphere and allow the left hemisphere to rest while the attention continues to observe the present which the right hemisphere is always automatically taking in. In this mode, the reality of life simply is not the same. All that "separation" becomes the baggage you're referring to.

      I enjoy talking about paranormal reality for the fact that it could be real. This can obviously lead to much moonbattery in forums where there is not a stable empirical element but DV is not the same and in fact it stands the cost of growing stale without a willingness to continue to play with ideas. This doesn't mean I use things like horoscopes to make decisions. The criteria I use to make decisions does not have to be the same criteria I use to talk. You don't have to be perfectly logical all the time.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    19. #19
      Member really's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      Pretty much it. Just thought that you all would get a kick.

      Reincarnation - kinda
      Auras - seen 'em
      "energy" - feel it
      manifestation - seen it work

      well that was a complete 180, huh? Questions? Comments?
      You are not a "newager" by that mere information! Manifestation, energy, auras and re-incarnation are all things that "normal spiritual people" can still believe in. Those terms are fairly generic. New-Agers tend to also be affiliated with:

      - Self-help & healing
      - The Law of Attraction (not just "manifesting")
      - Crystals
      - Psychic Readings
      - Astral realms and all their beings / Channelers
      - OBEs
      - Tarot, card readings, etc
      - Zodiac / Astrology / Numerology
      - UFOs / Aliens / Star-Seeds
      - Feng Shui
      - 2012 and other big events, Pseudo-science
      Last edited by really; 10-26-2011 at 11:23 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      Pretty much it. Just thought that you all would get a kick.

      Reincarnation - kinda
      Auras - seen 'em
      "energy" - feel it
      manifestation - seen it work

      well that was a complete 180, huh? Questions? Comments?
      Certainly not a philosopher.

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      Quote Originally Posted by juroara View Post
      my mind is the only thing I can be sure of as existing, everything else I just believe exists
      Its like i'm really a 16 year old again
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    22. #22
      DEATH TO FANATICS! StonedApe's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned View Post
      All this stuff exists with no drugs. And it's better that way.
      I have to second this. I'm getting sick of hearing about peoples false sense of enlightenment when they're on drugs. If you can't experience this with a clear mind in your everyday life it isn't going to make much difference.

      What makes you believe in auras? I'm not so sure I'd call them auras but I know some zen priests who have something like that going on, I can't really put it into words right now. It also might just be a trick of my senses.
      Majestic likes this.

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      LD's this year: ~7 tommo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by StonedApe View Post
      I have to second this. I'm getting sick of hearing about peoples false sense of enlightenment when they're on drugs. If you can't experience this with a clear mind in your everyday life it isn't going to make much difference.
      I somewhat agree with this. I have no doubt that stuff like DMT is an ego buster. But it's not going to have any long lasting benefit unless you try to learn from it and achieve enlightenment throughout your everyday life.
      Many people think they are enlightened after taking it, or other psychedelics, but you watch them and it's just so obvious that they aren't.

    24. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by tommo View Post
      I somewhat agree with this. I have no doubt that stuff like DMT is an ego buster. But it's not going to have any long lasting benefit unless you try to learn from it and achieve enlightenment throughout your everyday life.
      Many people think they are enlightened after taking it, or other psychedelics, but you watch them and it's just so obvious that they aren't.
      Yeah I know situations like this. My friend once tried Marijuana and probably took like 2 puffs and he believed he had an ego death. Sorry, but that doesn't happen and honestly, Marijuana is more of a relaxant and depressant than a psychedelic.


      By the way, on the topic of new age, you don't just become a "newager". There isn't such thing as new age; Really, its more of a thing people accuse you for when you have spiritual beliefs but not really associated with any spiritual religion.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Quantiq View Post
      By the way, on the topic of new age, you don't just become a "newager". There isn't such thing as new age; Really, its more of a thing people accuse you for when you have spiritual beliefs but not really associated with any spiritual religion.
      In other words, you have new age beliefs.

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