Need advice from anyone knowledagble and experienced in the chakras!

I know this is not the forum for this post. I have been here long enough to know that for this sort of thing I need a yogic forum of some sort. But this is an emergency, and I'm hoping perhaps someone here can help me.

I have been meditating on the chakras per the instructions from the book, "Deep Meditation" by Michal Levin. Moved up to the second or sacrem chakra. This is a confusing place for me, crystallized, not frozen. Ayhunna, my spirit guide (a fox) helps me by barking at things and breaking up or weakening the crystals. I can't use my energy on the trees to release them yet. I tried once and it fell apart, turned into dust - whatever phrase you would use here. Like something that has had access to no water for a long time and has had its shape held, but it's really quite fragile.

Anyhow Ayhunna led me to the nearby stream for my first meditation here, and I used my energy on the water, to free it and begin to break up the crystals. Today we worked on 3 (I think) waterfalls. The last came from a huge, very wide, very deep, crystallized lake. Ayhunna barked while I tried my usual kneeling down, placing hands on it, sending energy into the water to free it. I knew somehow it was not enough. So I stepped back and formed a ball of energy in my hands and sent that down into the lake, expanding the energy from there. Cracks appeared, but I had the definite sense that it was still not enough. The other times I knew that what I was doing would work. It wasn't just me seeing it working, I felt it. Very hard to explain. This time it felt like I was being told that it's not enough, it won't work, not an inner criticizing voice, nothing like that, a sense that what I had, in essence, brought a hammer when I needed a wrecking ball.

I went to the waterfall that came from here and, with much use of energy, freed that, causing water to go around the edges of the lake, breaking up the crystal, letting the water do the rest of the work. I knew somehow this was how I should do it. I flopped down and rested with Ayhunna, who was also exhausted. I sensed he wanted to be scratched behind the ears. I know he, whoever, whatever he is is in an animal form, a wild animal form at that, and is not to be seen as a pet. But this felt wanted or perhaps needed this afternoon.

I tried to bring the sacrem chakra back down, but for the first time it had expanded. It was a huge ball compared to its original size. I think maybe the energy I used expanded it somehow. I focused on it for a while, seemed to compact it back to ts original shape in some way, brought it down, had some trouble turning it and the root off, sense the root needed work, but I knew somehow I had no energy to work anymore on either of them. Managed to get them all to shut off after a few attempts.

This is where the trouble happened. I tried to do my usual energy sending/projection mental movie. In it I see the faces of my family and closest friends, as well as three people here in the forums I try to help. I see their faces, pull back to reveal a crowd of connected people, and focus on a sign that says, "Friends and Family." Then I come back to myself, forgive and ask forgiveness as needed, tell everyone I love them and want the best for them, then I come back to the sign (this is important, I can't do it from where I am standing, because it feels wrong, like I am depending on myself or something), and from there I go up into the "sky" (it's usually dark in the area and the sky is always cloudy) to go into the light, where I can direct it down into everyone, including myself, and through the threads of negative energy, transforming them, to anyone connected in some way to my group of family and friends. I feel like what I am doing here is actually going through the astral realm to the higher, what are called vibratory states, and drawing down the light energy from that.

Anyhow tonight, for the first time in the months since I started doing this, there was no light to draw down. Recently I've been taking Ayhunna up with me. Tonight he was attacked by lightning bolts. Now I think I have felt some resistance to bringing Ayhunna up with me before, so I will not bring him when I run this movie anymore. Since I felt he was in danger, I sent him back down and went alone. No more lighting bolts, but no energy whatsoever. I know something is wrong here. I used a memory of sending energy to finish the movie, sending some to Ayhunna as well, then ended my meditation. But I feel slightly dizzy, strange, nothing I have felt before. I feel something is wrong but I do not know what it is. I had always assumed I was directing God's energy to everyone, showing positive, loving intent. Now I am wondering if I have been drawing on my own energy all along.

There isn't any book covering this that I know of. I am very lost here and need to figure out if I have done something wrong, and how to correct it. Normally this question would be directed to a yogic teacher. But I have no access to one here. I will look for a forums where this sort of thing is addressed by a yogic teacher, but I thought I should give this forums a try since the need for assistance feels urgent right now. If you happen to have a teacher in the yogic tradition who you think could help me please send me their contact information, with their permission, via PM.

Thank you, I really would appreciate your help!
- DreamBliss

I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but here's something of my experience in hopes that may be relevant.

My first acquaintance in my life with any kind of yoga was jnana yoga, which I practiced only informally, but seriously enough to get results. My first acquaintance with a self-described yogic teacher was a man who warned that I would be lost if I didn't place myself under his guidance. It was kind of a bizarre experience, in that externally he maintained a benevolent demeanor, but internally I felt psychically attacked when I refused his demands, as if he were enraged. I'm also acquainted with raja yoga in the following sense: Somebody gave me a copy of Patanjali's sutras to read. From first glance they seem intimately familiar, as if I had studied them for ages. My overwhelming impression was 'this does not work', that for a time a person can get results, but ultimately will be pulled back. My guess at the time was that perhaps I had practiced it in a past life. But with retrospect I was probably picking up on the suppressed reaction of the person who gave me the book, since he had reached proud heights with it but had eventually become mired in apathy and sex addiction. Neither of these yoga traditions have directly to do with chakras, and my very limited knowledge of chakras is in part from observations of another person who had done a lot of chakra work.

My general conclusion, from these and other experiences, is that people understand enough about such things to produce real effects, but nobody has developed a practice that can ultimately deliver what is promised. Consequently, the teachers who make attractive claims are the ones who have been unwilling to look with an honest, skeptical eye at themselves and what they're selling. The honest ones are naysayers which nobody listens to because they don't seem to offer anything that anybody wants. You can't believe anybody's confident interpretations of what they think they're doing with their energy practices - their theories are spun to flatter themselves and attract devotees that they can feed off of. This goes for the traditional, esteemed eastern teachers as much as any of them.

If my perception of this is true, where does this leave a person? I think it may make sense to do chakra meditation in the sense of exploring with thought and feeling to become more aware of oneself, in an honest and caring manner, but without believing any of the assertions of people who advocate specific practices. A lot of people assume that such practices are safe because they don't see any implements that they recognize as dangerous, like the sharp edge of a knife. But it seems to me that anything that affects your mind and body in an intimate way is potentially unhealthy, if you do it in an arrogant and unnatural way. And in terms of the result, it counts a lot the same as arrogance if you're humbly trusting someone else's arrogance. In my observation, all kinds of deceptive half-truths, be they emotional, intellectual, or chemical, are in varying ways destructive. I wish we had 'masters' and gurus that are worthy of our trust, but all of my life's experience seems to teach that we do not, that what we have is ourselves and simple honesty.

Did you try asking Ayhunna?

I have not tried asking Ayhunna yet. As my other post I just made states I am fearful for his health.

shadowofwind
I am so incredibly sorry and sad to hear of your experiences with your teacher. I truly do not believe he was a worthy teacher for you, and in fact could not be practicing the yogic tradition he claimed to be practicing, because a true teacher of this may tear you down, like Ganesh Baba was said to do, but it would always be to build you back up, like tearing down a rotting, decrepit house and setting the foundation for a much better, stronger building.

I have to say your exoerience here sounds like it colored your judgment. Please know that not all teachers are like that! You may be right in the end, maybe many of the teachers out there who claim to be such are exactly as you described. But I am sure that for every one of those there are several who don't call themselves teachers, and maybe would never attach such a label to themselves, but who would be, by their actions, true spiritual masters, worthy of your trust. I have to believe there are such people out there. I hope that some day I will find one, or one will find me. I will take your words to heart and be careful of who I entrust myself to. It is far too easy for someone to become blinded by the perceived worthiness of a person, and I am just as susceptible to this as anyone else.

I hope that when you are ready, that the right teacher for you will come into your life, earn your trust and proceed to heal the wounds your previous teacher gave to you. I also promise, and I rarely make promises, that I will strive to be the sort of teacher, should I have anything worthy of teaching, that displays only the highest and purest spiritual essence to anyone I instruct. I have already tried to do as much here, but and still learning, and am nowhere near the point where I could call myself a teacher. Right now I just consider myself someone who wants to help others and who might have some advice worth weighing and considering.

Thank you for your posts!
- DreamBliss

DreamBliss,

From what I've seen, I don't think that my experience with 'teachers' is unusual. I don't think this is a 'dark' view though. I think its unnatural for one human to have master/follower power over another person, so there's always something out of kilter about those kinds of relationships. There are people who know relatively little, there there are people who know more, or come to think they know more, but if you watch them for a cycle or two their actions eventually prove that its pride and power lust that motivates them. If you're young and pretty and female, or if you have money you can be manipulated out of, you may find a teacher who shows an interest in you. Otherwise, results are likely to be disappointing.

I also think that a teacher who presumes to be 'tearing down a rotting, decrepit house' is likely to be rationalizing abuse. Crushing people's self-esteem that way is part of how they maintain power over them.

I think the answer is just for us as individuals to care about other people. The hierarchical BS doesn't add anything. Yeah it can be a little lonely and scary not seeming to have anything we can trust, but maybe we're just looking to the wrong sorts of things. All we can do is try to make sure we're trustworthy ourselves, and trust fate.

I was more emotionally needy when I was younger. Now I'm more content and independent, but that also makes me more inclined to treat people like crap, since I don't feel like I need them. I regard my loneliness as a blessing in that regard.

Ironically, it was recognizing the essential fraudulence of the behavior of people I tried to look up to that helped give me my confidence and contentment. I realized that although other people play power games with abuse and esteem, they weren't actually better than me. A lot of times the people who seem wiser or more together are really just more focused on hiding their weaknesses and projecting that kind of image.

Mark (I'm not trying to hide my identity with my pretentious handle, I'm just making it harder for employers and others to profile me.)

Well it seems we have the same first name, but I do hide behind my handle. I guess you could say I'm a little paranoid that way.

I want you to know that I respect your viewpoint, and re-iterate that I will take your words to heart.

I also want you to know that I'm afraid I must disagree.

If you are a child and you wish to learn how to swim you don 't go jumping into the nearest river. No, you call upon adults, or perhaps older siblings - anyone more experienced - to help you learn, assuming of course you even have a desire to learn. More likely you will be scared of all that water and want to run in the other direction.

This is what teachers are for. No matter how old you are in life, how experienced, how self-reliant, you can never know everything. There are entire rivers of experience out there that people are unaware of. Dreaming would be one of those, and we here in this forums are a lucky few swimming around.

On the other hands there are some things we must experience, even if we don't want to, and teachers can take us firmly in hand through it

Sometimes these rivers of experience are slow and placid, peaceful seemingly on top, but underneath lurks hidden dangers. Other times the danger is obvious, like fast moving rapids among rocks or a huge waterfall depositing intro a rocky basin. A true teacher is someone who, unlike the prospective student, has explored these treacherous areas, survived the experience, and now are able to guide others through.

There is some merit to the thought that self-reliance should be encouraged, especially in our children. Wayne Dyer believe as much, teaches that parents should not try to control every aspect of their children's lives, that children will find their own way, that they have everything they need at the moment of their birth provided by God. Some things are better learned by experience, but not all things.

Love is a foreign concept to many of us in our lives. Sure we know about the romantic kind, but what about the love that Buddha taught? The love that Jesus taught? Here are two examples of teachers who, through different approaches, attempted to help and teach others. Without their teachings we might still be in the dark ages today.

How about something more concrete, scientific, like some study of engineering? Obviously you need teachers through college and high school covering all the needed subjects so you can understand what you need to earn your engineering degree. You could go out and read a few hundred 500+ page books, but you will definitely learn faster and benefit more from teachers who are more knowledgeable than yourself.

I am a teacher. I have no desire for power, for followers. I use my God given ability to help others, even as I help myself. Whether it is to understand something, to answer a question, or to guide someone as best I can, I serve others with my teaching skill. I may write a book and earn money from my words. But my drive is not for money. Sure I would love to have money, and I'm still stupid enough to think the more the better, but this is not my drive. I'm not after fame, wealth or power. Success is no longer a drive within me, as it was towards another vocation, not teaching, a year ago. My only goal is to take the things i have learned and pass the knowledge on in the hopes it will help someone. That's it.

I am not some statistical anomaly. There are others out there just as dedicated, in many cases more so, to serving others. Although I have only his words to go by, Thich Nhat Hanh is one of these. He helped his people during the Vietnam war, costing him a 40 year exile from his country, and now any profits from his books go to charities to help children. Teacher like these do not see themselves, as I do not see myself, as over anyone. The teacher/student relationship is a two-way street. Initially the teacher may be the teacher, but sooner or later the teacher may become the student. You will hear this often from truly dedicated teachers, how they learned so much from their students.

I will go so far to say that without teaching there would be no society for us to live in. No technology, no advances in it either. People would be lost in subjects, forced to blaze a trail through virgin territory, unable to follow in the steps of others, and, more to the point, unable to use those steps as a sort of reference point to find their own path.

Here is an esoteric example. How do you learn about the first and second attentions? If Castenada is not outright lying, you need a teacher, someone who sees, "as the sorcerers of old" to learn of this. The idea through the book, "Art of Dreaming" so far seems to be to learn how you normally see things through the first attention, and how to enter the dreaming, you need to move that point to any one of a number of other places, otherwise known, once it has been moved, as the second attention. This allows you to enter through what Castenada calls the first of the seven gates, it allows you to communicate with your spirit.

Now putting aside personal thoughts or beliefs on this, let's assume that Catsenada is telling the truth, and learning how to move your focal point to the second awareness will give you greater control over your dreams, and that this is something important to learn. How would you go about figuring this out on your own? According to Catseneda, he not only had to be taught in the physical realm by his teacher, don Juan, but he also had to be literally slapped on the back to move him to the second attention, where further instructions were given. There was no other way for him to learn these things.

Hopefully you can see now that not all teachers are bad and there is nothing wrong with a healthy, proper teacher/student relationship. It should be obvious that you see teachers a certain way due to your experiences. That teacher you said felt like he was attacking you, this is not what a good teacher would do. When I said a teacher may tear down I mean only in the sense that sometimes we have built up in us wrong ides, preconceived notions, and we are blind, unable to see the truth, unable to break down the walls that imprison us. In this sense a good teacher may, out of love, tear down the decrepit house to help the student build something much better. Always to build up, not to justify abuse, but to help, always to help. Love and compassion are the motivating factors for truly good teachers, especially enlightened ones. You will see the difference should you meet one. It will be like night and day when you look back on your earlier experiences.

Through these posts I have attempted to teach your instruct you, and guide you. I am giving you a very poor example of a good teacher. Yet have I displayed any of the undesirable attributes of your former teacher?

I would like to return this thread to its original subject. But I would also like to leave open the channels of communication between us. Feel free to PM me at any time, and if you like I will give you my e-mail address.
- DreamBliss

I would say that you are imposing too much of your will on the manipulation of your chakras. Instead I suggest you use a method where your chakras realign themselves naturally and at a pace that is governed by higher spiritual forces rather than by the influence of your conscious mind. I would recommend the method of chakra balancing in the book, 'The Miracle of Universal Psychic Power' by Al. G. Manning.

Stand up straight. Imagine a giant magnifying glass behind you. Then imagine an orange beam of light the size of the magnifying glass coming from an infinite distance away. Imagine that the magnifying glass is focusing the orange light into an awesome point of light on your 2nd chakra. This is a bit like when you use a magnifying glass to focus a small point of sunlight onto a flammable object to make it catch fire. See your 2nd chakra sparkling with the wonderful orange light. Spend three minutes on this visualisation twice a day. Your problem may resolve itself within a two week period.

Always be connected to the earth when working with the root. Always be connected to the sky when seeing through the eye.

Do not force anything, let the breath thaw out the channels and keep your mind clear. what kind of breathing excercises are you doing? The conversion from negative to positive reguires fuel. where are you getting your fuel from?

Receive, do not take, and give energy to the sun and the moon and the stars above you, be open to the nature around you as the source for your energy and do not look to realms far away, and do not simply bring down! Earth must be drawn up so that it can mingle with heaven and produce vitality in the breath. Do you have yang chi? positive energy is cold, and it flushes the body of impurities, bringing them to the surface for reintigration. Do you have yin chi? when the body is flushed of impurities, it meets with the negative energy and produces blissful tingling sensations as your body begins to create energy. Or pain, if there is a blockage that needs to be pierced.

You must open yourself up to heaven, you cannot direct it's will. Allow, do not direct.

What posture are you using to meditate? How are you doing, emotionally and health-wise, right now? Mcwillis is very right that it is wise to allow your chakras to realign themselves naturally, because each is governed by a particular mind state: fearlessness, in the sacral, sexual energy and confidence rests in the root, happiness above that, then love, compassion, understanding, and knowing. The bridges between these are not only inside the mind. There are not simply those chakras which are most commonly known; there are many chakras above your head and below you which connect to the universe itself. There are chakras in your hands and feet. There are many chakras that people dont talk about inbetween all of these.

Do you practice stillness meditations?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by telethiese

Always be connected to the earth when working with the root. Always be connected to the sky when seeing through the eye.

Do not force anything, let the breath thaw out the channels and keep your mind clear. what kind of breathing excercises are you doing? The conversion from negative to positive reguires fuel. where are you getting your fuel from?

Receive, do not take, and give energy to the sun and the moon and the stars above you, be open to the nature around you as the source for your energy and do not look to realms far away, and do not simply bring down! Earth must be drawn up so that it can mingle with heaven and produce vitality in the breath. Do you have yang chi? positive energy is cold, and it flushes the body of impurities, bringing them to the surface for reintigration. Do you have yin chi? when the body is flushed of impurities, it meets with the negative energy and produces blissful tingling sensations as your body begins to create energy. Or pain, if there is a blockage that needs to be pierced.

You must open yourself up to heaven, you cannot direct it's will. Allow, do not direct.

What posture are you using to meditate? How are you doing, emotionally and health-wise, right now? Mcwillis is very right that it is wise to allow your chakras to realign themselves naturally, because each is governed by a particular mind state: fearlessness, in the sacral, sexual energy and confidence rests in the root, happiness above that, then love, compassion, understanding, and knowing. The bridges between these are not only inside the mind. There are not simply those chakras which are most commonly known; there are many chakras above your head and below you which connect to the universe itself. There are chakras in your hands and feet. There are many chakras that people dont talk about inbetween all of these.

Do you practice stillness meditations?

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Sorry it took me so long to address your questions. I have some for you, and of course the answers.

First off how do you connect to the sky?

Secondly I have been using the book by Michal Levin entitled, "Meditation Path to the Deepest Self." I have been having trouble seeing through the third eye to look at the color of the chakra. How do I see through the third eye?

When I get up I lay on my back, relaxed, and take 10 deep, filling breaths through the nose, tip of the tongue on the roof of the mouth, exhaling slowly with an "s" sound (as taught by Matt Furey.) The last exhale is normal. Then I work on the three main pressure points, between thumb and forefinger, below the wrist, and below the outsides of each knee. Before meditating I take three deep breaths through the nose and exhale slowly, imaging roots shooting down from my feet deep into the earth, growths on them storing energy, as described in Levin's book. When I meditate I close off the back of my mouth, leaving it open and breathing entirely through the nose. Otherwise the loudness of my breathing disturbs me.

I bring energy up from the earth after my three deep breaths before meditating. I bring it through the roots and through my feet, all the way to the top pf my head where it exits like a fountain. I do the same through my fingers. This is as described by Robert Moss (Shamanism) and Bruce Moen. I try to at least 2 times a week perform Qi Gong exercises through Mathew Coehn's "Fire and Water", and that involves a lot of energy manipulation. I can not recall ever feeling Yin Chi. I would certainly appreciate some more instruction in Yin and Yang Chi, working with that energy.

Lately when energy sending I have been asking for energy to bring down, and thanking upon receiving it. The energy has been strange the last two times. Once it was kind of curly and hard to direct anywhere, the other it was like dust, snow or powder. I will try to be open and allow, let the energy come down to me.

I used to sit in an old office chair, cloth and metal, not wood, feet flat on the floor, arms on legs, relaxed. Recently I felt compelled to sit cross-legged on the floor, my posterior on a pillow, my back against the wall, straight and tall, hands on legs, relaxed. Of and on I do this palms up, thumb and forefinger touching, a few times thumb and second or third fingers. Usually I am clothed in t-shirt and shorts, or my exercise clothes, all of which are loose. No jewelry or piercings, not even a watch. I have a few times sat naked, out of necessity, treating a yeast infection, only once because I felt compelled.

Mental state is fairly calm, focused. Body is in no real pain, some skin issues, otherwise fine. Emotional state is something like the sea during a storm. Going through a lot emotionally right now.

I am aware of the little mentioned, 7th chakra. I explored its landscape once. Ayhunna was with me then, and he became strangeluy more real. The landscape was an ancient English battlefield. I watched a man impale another with sword then start toward me. Ayhunna and I left. I have not meditated or returned to this chakra since. I am unaware of any other major chakras, although I have read about the minor ones.

I try to do a chakra mediation after my breathing exercises when i get up, and a deep meditation, as taught by Yogani, before supper, or later, after I have digested my food, before exercise. I try to exercise in the evening between 8 and 10 PM. I go to bed between 2-3 AM. Wake up between 11 AM and 12 PM. I'm trying to get to bed earlier, wake up at 10AM, be asleep by 2 AM. Lately I've been up far later than I should be. I think I might be afraid because of the attack in a recent dream.

Thank you for your post and your advice. I appreciate any further help you would be willing to give me
- DreamBliss

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DreamBliss

Sorry it took me so long to address your questions. I have some for you, and of course the answers.

First off how do you connect to the sky?

Secondly I have been using the book by Michal Levin entitled, "Meditation Path to the Deepest Self." I have been having trouble seeing through the third eye to look at the color of the chakra. How do I see through the third eye?

When I get up I lay on my back, relaxed, and take 10 deep, filling breaths through the nose, tip of the tongue on the roof of the mouth, exhaling slowly with an "s" sound (as taught by Matt Furey.) The last exhale is normal. Then I work on the three main pressure points, between thumb and forefinger, below the wrist, and below the outsides of each knee. Before meditating I take three deep breaths through the nose and exhale slowly, imaging roots shooting down from my feet deep into the earth, growths on them storing energy, as described in Levin's book. When I meditate I close off the back of my mouth, leaving it open and breathing entirely through the nose. Otherwise the loudness of my breathing disturbs me.

I bring energy up from the earth after my three deep breaths before meditating. I bring it through the roots and through my feet, all the way to the top pf my head where it exits like a fountain. I do the same through my fingers. This is as described by Robert Moss (Shamanism) and Bruce Moen. I try to at least 2 times a week perform Qi Gong exercises through Mathew Coehn's "Fire and Water", and that involves a lot of energy manipulation. I can not recall ever feeling Yin Chi. I would certainly appreciate some more instruction in Yin and Yang Chi, working with that energy.

Lately when energy sending I have been asking for energy to bring down, and thanking upon receiving it. The energy has been strange the last two times. Once it was kind of curly and hard to direct anywhere, the other it was like dust, snow or powder. I will try to be open and allow, let the energy come down to me.

I used to sit in an old office chair, cloth and metal, not wood, feet flat on the floor, arms on legs, relaxed. Recently I felt compelled to sit cross-legged on the floor, my posterior on a pillow, my back against the wall, straight and tall, hands on legs, relaxed. Of and on I do this palms up, thumb and forefinger touching, a few times thumb and second or third fingers. Usually I am clothed in t-shirt and shorts, or my exercise clothes, all of which are loose. No jewelry or piercings, not even a watch. I have a few times sat naked, out of necessity, treating a yeast infection, only once because I felt compelled.

Mental state is fairly calm, focused. Body is in no real pain, some skin issues, otherwise fine. Emotional state is something like the sea during a storm. Going through a lot emotionally right now.

I am aware of the little mentioned, 7th chakra. I explored its landscape once. Ayhunna was with me then, and he became strangeluy more real. The landscape was an ancient English battlefield. I watched a man impale another with sword then start toward me. Ayhunna and I left. I have not meditated or returned to this chakra since. I am unaware of any other major chakras, although I have read about the minor ones.

I try to do a chakra mediation after my breathing exercises when i get up, and a deep meditation, as taught by Yogani, before supper, or later, after I have digested my food, before exercise. I try to exercise in the evening between 8 and 10 PM. I go to bed between 2-3 AM. Wake up between 11 AM and 12 PM. I'm trying to get to bed earlier, wake up at 10AM, be asleep by 2 AM. Lately I've been up far later than I should be. I think I might be afraid because of the attack in a recent dream.

Thank you for your post and your advice. I appreciate any further help you would be willing to give me
- DreamBliss

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The sky comes down through the crown point on your head.

The 'third eye' is the mind, and you always look out from it, no matter what you hear, see or think inside of the mind, you are seeing with this eye, but it will remain closed to the conscious self until you become truly aware of this and it aligns to your experience. It is the same point that looks when one dreams, or imagines, or even interprets forms. Contemplate this.

The same could be said of all the chakras, they are useless until you've come to terms with all of your emotional turbulence and begin transmuting that dark space into a light which cannot be dampened. The brain/body dichotomy is an illusion, and as you look through these points all of the issues which were underneath the surface will be brought to the fore. I reccomend the Secret Smile Meditation, it's quite useful for developing a consistently positive emotional state.

You seem to have a pretty thorough practice laid out, but do take care not to get penned into any one system. The way is everywhere. Often times the greatest breakthroughs come when one sits and lets go of everything they think they know. Yin chi comes from sitting and forgetting. It is vital that you contemplate the sources of your distress so that they may all be dissolved with the knowledge that comes from the heart. When you look earnestly into that void within all of us, thats when the real gnosis shows itself.

The refinement of negative emotion into shimmering wisdom is Yin, the refinement of shimmering wisdom into fiery knowledge is Yang. Yang without Yin is lame, Yin without Yang is useless. Knowledge is action, Wisdom is not activity. With this alone you may succeed in all you do. Best of luck.

What is the reason for your practice?

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Originally Posted by telethiese

What is the reason for your practice?

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This one is tough to explain... I have been a Christian for many years, but I do not feel it was really my choice. I was "saved" by my mother when I was a child. I then begin to learn to teach the same things she taught me to other children, to "save" them. I was 12 when this started.

Life has, to understate it, not been easy for me. Certainly not as difficult as many others if we were to compare, but from my perspective, to me, it has been difficult. I have left and returned to my faith many times. The threat of hell is what currently keeps me in it.

I have always had a fascination with dreams, and one day at our local library I walked to a shelf that in the three years I have been here I never noticed. I was looking for books on increasing my brain power and memory. There was Mark McEllroy's book, "Lucid Dreaming for Beginners." I read that, fascinated by the experiences of someone else who referred to themselves as a Christian, disappointed that they were obviously also gay. But reading that book with an open mind, which I have always tried to have, I had my first lucid dream.

That experience was a turning point for me. As is my tendency I placed holds on more books from the notorious 158 section, and started to see what I could find online. Encountered Robert Moss and some other authors. At some point I discovered Yogani's "Deep Meditation" and I started doing it. Looking back I can't place my finger on any definite why. Maybe I was looking for some peace. All I know is that I felt better after doing it, so I continued.

My researched ventured into Astral Projection, altered states of consciousness (I have had good experiences on shrooms) and through this I have started seeing the holes in Christianity. I have found more comfort in Yogic teachings and the writings of Buddhists like Thich Nhat Hanh than in anything from Christian authors, including the Bible (which I have read many times.) I guess I have always been unhappy and depressed and I just wanted to feel better. So maybe I started because I was trying something new, a new set of clothes to see if they fit, and I found they did and I liked wearing them. I continue because I am happier wearing these clothes than I ever was under the mantle of Christianity.

Then I received my gift, Ayhunna, something which as a Christian I never expected, and other things have shown me truth in the areas of spiritual study I am researching. Right now I am enjoying the words of Rumi and soon will be looking into Christian Mysticism and Mysticism in general as well as Sufism. Ultimately though i want to be free of all religions, following only one thing, the truth, whatever that may be. Still digesting Greg Goode's, "Standing as Awareness." That one's been tough.

So to sum up I guess you could say I have always had the heart of a seeker, an adventurer, an explorer, but have only recently allowed myself to follow my heart. Until now I have always followed the expectations of my family and faith. Christianity has, to me at least, chained me down, keeping me from following my heart. Perhaps this is a wrong perception. I am trying not to judge. But ultimately I seek freedom. I guess I feel if I find the truth I will also find that freedom. Then I can be whatever I want to be, whatever I was meant to be, without any doubts or fears of eternity.

I hope I have answered your question -
- DreamBliss

Since Ayhunna's "death" (yes I know nothing truly dies, and this was more of a being taken away) I have quite chakra meditations. I just don't know what to do, and the book I used just doesn't give me enough info. "Bring the light up between your eyes, in the center of your forehead, then out in front of you. Don't look directly at it, try to see it with the third eye, concentrate on the color..." I guess I got lost in the chakra landscape explorations. Another gift from the gift of Ayhunna. But sitting there, just looking without looking at something and concentrating on the color just isn't doing anything for me. I feel as if I am missing something...

I have moved on to Wayne Dyer's, "Getting Into The Gap" AKA Jopra meditation. Changed my mantra to, "Let Go, Flow." Now I do the gap in the morning and the mantra in the evening. I may replace the gap with the orbit meditation others have mentioned - dunno yet. a book I read by Swami Jakanananda had a lot of stuff on meditation in it. I have to return it but I may check it out again and study this material.

All I know right now is that using different mantras definitely has different effects. My previous mantra, "Spirit Wings", seemed to be ideal for inducing an out of body experience during the meditative state. My current one has a different feel to it, a lightness, openness, expansiveness. The word Flow resonates with me.

So moving on...
- DreamBliss

If you want to be free, you have to let go of your perception of your current situation and what you think you need or have to do - to be free.

I really feel I should say this, uhh I've read this thread (long) and noticed that you like to read a lot of books, follow other disciplines, methods and techniques which all originated from other people. While having teachers and having things explained to you and vague-ish guidelines to follow are good, they can become poison if they prevent the student from thinking for himself or inhibit the use of the students natural ability (like school). What I'm trying to convey is that every single person has 'natural ability'. This is a very valuable thing that is attempted to be destroyed as quick as possible by the higher-ups it's harmful to. In your case, the destruction came in the form of religion, and maybe the years of conditioning instilled in your mind a firm belief that you must look outside of yourself for answers, among others. That you must read a bible or follow a set of rituals/force yourself to believe things, before you reach the divine, but this is not true, they never tell you that you are divine just as you are. I encourage you to reflect in your own quiet time on the all the feelings that float around the idea that 'You need someone else to guide you' and one by one, let them go, release them into the universe with every breath you take. Be free from them... and any other deeply ingrained, false christian beliefs.

The 'Natural ability' was a semi-metaphor for your own spirit. The spirit that everything living on the earth has, that connects them to god. Every single animal is connected to God, many more than humans. God is within you. This is where all the answers you seek lie, that will always be what you need to know at any given time. You were given EVERYTHING you could possibly need right from the beginning by the love that created you. Your own spirit is your teacher, God, is your teacher. What bible did Jesus read? What bible did the dolphin read? Lol.

When you go to do your meditations, do what you feel is right, completely let go of what you think you should be doing and what you have been told was the right or wrong way to do meditation and relaxation, there is no right or wrong way. Letting go of these silly false perceptions allows for the real one to shien through, the one perfect for YOU. You can begin receiving messages from your spirit, which you have been doing anyway but they were probably très muffled. Personally I think that visualizing your chakras is a damn great idea, and if you feel that it is beneficial to you then do it, if you feel you should lie down instead of sitting lotus, then do so, if you feel that you should visualize a friendly, talkative mountain (lol) bestowing its healing energy through your third eye, your sacral chakra, your foot, your penis, whatever, then do so.

God communicates in many ways, but incredibly prominent is feelings, that's how your spirit communicates to you, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO,in your meditations, in your life's situations, you can discover the secrets of the universe and have your Spirit explain all sorts of phenomena, just by stilling your conscious-awareness. I'd HIGHLY reccommend that you go and do your meditations in nature, in this way the huge array of life around you (try picture this) will help you greatly in your healing, compared to your bedroom where theres an infinitesimal amount of life compared. If you are in a state of love in nature, everything responds and picks up on this absolutely magnificent feeling and vibration, and all the life around you will strive to help you in your healing. Don't try to understand that, feel it. Therefore, you can communicate much easier, and heal a lot quicker in nature.

Your circumstance is your circumstance, it is not who you are, do not relate to it, see it as a separate entity, no, see it as a great big fricking heavy chain that you are desperately clinging onto, after being told you can move through life easier with it. This chain of your circumstance, your life's events, all you have to do is LET IT GO and stop carrying around THAT DAMN MUTHA-F. It does nothing, holding onto the past. You live right here and right now, nowhere else. I'm beginning to understand and more importantly feel just what this means and let me tell you it feels DAMN PROFOUND. When I truly feel this in it's entirety (living in the moment) then.... just wow.

God is completely loving, god does not get angry at you, only looks upon you with eternal, non-judgemental love. Always. God will NEVER send you to hell. What will send you to hell is the belief so engrained in your mind that at your moment of death, you begin to imagine a future of fire, torture and satan and then *SNATCH* they've got you. It's bullshit. God will never send you to hell, ever, your own mind can though, if you don't know any better.

Please, DreamBliss, try to realise that you already have all the answers that you need, and more.

I agree with all of that, with a couple of qualifications that I think worth adding.

As with the beliefs that we get externally through social and religious conditioning, beliefs which arise internally are also to some degree flawed and limited. These come from other people and other religions, past and future as well as present, as well as from mistakes in subconscious processes. So it would be a mistake to assume that because something comes from inside of you, its necessarily infallible. If you do make that assumption, you'll make good progress for a while, benefiting the confidence that it gives you. But eventually you'll encounter the limitations of whatever sub-strata of wisdom you're drawing on, and you'll get stuck there because the assumption prevents you from recognizing the error.

Nature allows access an incredible amount of knowledge, but there are also some problems in the realm that is easily known by humans. One evidence of this is the violent and parasitic animal forms in our world, which are consistent with the same kinds of problems with fear, anger, and cruelty that man has, and which don't square perfectly well with the completely loving God idea. There is deeper knowledge also, which transcends the conditions particular to our world. But drawing on knowledge requires being able to recognize and see past the nearer gods, so to speak. My words are misleading in the sense that as I experience it the 'deeper' knowledge really isn't further away, its as immediate and intimate as any of the rest of it, but its still obscured or distorted by the ways of thinking which characterize our world. My point isn't that we shouldn't dance and communicate with our internal spirits, or that we should instead trust what other people and their scriptures tell us. I agree that working with the internal guide is generally better. But the assumption that the spirit can never mislead would lead to hubris and an eventually to suffering.

On the subject of one's connection with one's environment....I agree that letting go is great, and that finding deeper realities that are not slaved to the external conditions is great. This can turn into a sort of dissociative denial however if embraced as an absolute. Their are real and unavoidable connections between our souls and our destinies, whether we cling fearfully to those or not, and there are circumstantial things that need to be dealt with. I agree that finding oneself as independent of those things is important and freeing, and this has been a big part of my path. But its also paralyzing and alienating in the long run if the real connections aren't recognized and acknowledged.

Anyway, I don't intend these two points as disagreement, just things that I wanted to add.

A few things that I can add about chakras are that they are energy points in our body and that in our lowest chakra in our pelvic area is a coiled up serpent which not seen through our eyes has our dormant energy. When awakened, it goes up to our first chakra and to the second and so on till it reaches all of them and with opening each one a power is granted for it.


good luck. And achieve Kundalini awakening through meditation.

Dreambliss, you have been given all sorts of advice here by some very wise people. Telethesis has clearly made a study of details from many systems and gave you tons of details. Mrmarley makes a very true account of how you can not allow the dogma of a system or someone elses experience to rule you. You say you've moved on so i wont bother saying much unless you want to give it a try again. Some how this book you used got you so confused with odd visual tricks and specific techniques, that Im not sure any of us actually understood the root of your question. Do not follow a book as far as what color you should see or anything specific about chakras. They are guidlines based on common preceptions others have had. When you are in the lower sacral chakra, you may see it as blue or yellow or anything, you may not even precieve it as being at a certain point in your body. It is a fundamental part of you, based on your connection to your body and the physical world. The next one may again appear a diffferant color than a book says, it may not seem to be located where they say, but it is a fundamental part of you that is related to your drives in the world. If you want to feel it on the most basic level, let yourself get hungry or thirsty. You will in someway be in touch with that part of your spirit that guides you to seek out things in the physical world. If you want to try again, let me know in very simple terms what problems you run into. Not what a book says you need to do, but just what stops you from getting deeper into self awareness of chakras and I would be happy, in simple terms to make an easy to follow suggestion. However, as MrMarley says, you must find the experience that comes natural to you.

Thank you all for the positive contributions to the general message to DreamBliss in this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I agree with all of that, with a couple of qualifications that I think worth adding.

As with the beliefs that we get externally through social and religious conditioning, beliefs which arise internally are also to some degree flawed and limited. These come from other people and other religions, past and future as well as present, as well as from mistakes in subconscious processes. So it would be a mistake to assume that because something comes from inside of you, its necessarily infallible. If you do make that assumption, you'll make good progress for a while, benefiting the confidence that it gives you. But eventually you'll encounter the limitations of whatever sub-strata of wisdom you're drawing on, and you'll get stuck there because the assumption prevents you from recognizing the error.

Nature allows access an incredible amount of knowledge, but there are also some problems in the realm that is easily known by humans. One evidence of this is the violent and parasitic animal forms in our world, which are consistent with the same kinds of problems with fear, anger, and cruelty that man has, and which don't square perfectly well with the completely loving God idea. There is deeper knowledge also, which transcends the conditions particular to our world. But drawing on knowledge requires being able to recognize and see past the nearer gods, so to speak. My words are misleading in the sense that as I experience it the 'deeper' knowledge really isn't further away, its as immediate and intimate as any of the rest of it, but its still obscured or distorted by the ways of thinking which characterize our world. My point isn't that we shouldn't dance and communicate with our internal spirits, or that we should instead trust what other people and their scriptures tell us. I agree that working with the internal guide is generally better. But the assumption that the spirit can never mislead would lead to hubris and an eventually to suffering.

On the subject of one's connection with one's environment....I agree that letting go is great, and that finding deeper realities that are not slaved to the external conditions is great. This can turn into a sort of dissociative denial however if embraced as an absolute. Their are real and unavoidable connections between our souls and our destinies, whether we cling fearfully to those or not, and there are circumstantial things that need to be dealt with. I agree that finding oneself as independent of those things is important and freeing, and this has been a big part of my path. But its also paralyzing and alienating in the long run if the real connections aren't recognized and acknowledged.

Anyway, I don't intend these two points as disagreement, just things that I wanted to add.

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These are very valid contributions, but I'll make myself clearer on inner guidance. Inner guidance from your spirit IS god, it is not separate from God, only in illusion. The one god, The creator, I mean. Such guidance is always right, and will always lead to the best possible path for you. I absolutely agree that you shouldn't treat this as infallible though, it's just that after a while of finding truth within myself and being clearly shown by the creator, "Hey, I exist", doubt is eradicated from my mind. When learning to be in communication with your true self, you should indeed exercise caution. Just as there are parasitic life forms in the physical world, they exist also in the spiritual world, and they may try to trick you into thinking you're getting guidance from a higher place, from a just and loving source when in fact it's the opposite.

So how do you 'guage' whether guidance you are receiving is valid, or will lead you to the right path, and ISN'T misleading? It's simple, please don't complicate it, even I have a habit of complicating this, dumbfounded at it's simplicity. First acknowledge that you are always connected to god, they have tried to disconnect you in many ways but its nigh on impossible to disconnect you fully. Such a simple statement make sit easier to realise that you are always being guided, but when you actively seek guidance, it will be made OBVIOUS to you just WHO is guiding. You will see that, you begin to think of an explanation to something, think of a theory for example and then a week later you see a scientist explain the exact same theory you had come to a culmination about within yourself. You will feel/think on a personal life situation and come out at the end of it in awe at how beautifully it all unfolded... Or you will begin to have memories and connect dots of when you were guided, seeing situations that had instilled in them great meaning, where God was trying to teach you something. You may recall people that you have met, that for some reason you can't put your finger on seemed to make you feel so happy and alive and clear... you may remember events that all have a certain, feeling attached to them, a feeling of clarity, vibrant aliveness and joy. You may begin to see things at the right time, a bird taking flight from a rooftop that for some reason leads you to dwell on something, or uncover meaning from that. You may see a poster or come across a song that absolutely perfectly portrays a message you needed to hear, and instills in you great feelings needed to become alive once again...
Such things may be vague, but I am speaking from countless personal experiences, and I'm sure the same will be similar for many many many people indeed. After message after message, guidance after guidance and confirmation after confirmation of truth I have found within myself, it becomes clear that this source will not lead me towards suffering. If an action I have derived from feeling within seems questionable, I will question, but there is usually a feeling of liberty or supportive feeling that comes along with the questionable guidance that propels you to follow through, and sure enough the situation unfolds perfectly.

The clearest thing you will experience however, is the love of the creator, which is the most amazing thing I have ever experienced in my life. It brought a sense of clarity like no other, I felt that I 'understood' life... even if i didn't have all the knowledge, I knew that I knew where I was in all of existence, and it's purpose was clear, it's truly hard to describe, but I felt as if I didn't need to intake knowledge about life, it was just... there? Such a feeling leaves the wisdom you are given absolutely undeniable. No question whatsoever. You just know.

Your final paragraph, shadowofwind, I pretty much agree with entirely, but in my experience detaching from your circumstance involves letting go of whatever fear is associated with it, the same fear clouding your judgement. When taking a step back like this, the true solution presents itself with utmost clarity, with no anxiety/fear to cloud it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elucid

A few things that I can add about chakras are that they are energy points in our body and that in our lowest chakra in our pelvic area is a coiled up serpent which not seen through our eyes has our dormant energy. When awakened, it goes up to our first chakra and to the second and so on till it reaches all of them and with opening each one a power is granted for it.


good luck. And achieve Kundalini awakening through meditation.

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WOoOoOoOaAhH... Easy tiger. Please do not attempt to awaken Kundalini... Kundalini should be awakened naturally, it's really not something you should see as an 'achievement' in my opinion, that view sort of drains the poetic beauty of such a transformation. I have gone through Kundalini, and let me tell you, it was pretty tough. I had an awakening actually, shortly after joining dreamviews, after declaring to God quite a clear intent, 'I am ready to undergo your healing, your therapy, please... guide me'. Literally immediately after that I was tested, and experienced some scary stuff, but the process was pretty amazing and healing, but at it's culmination, well lets just say it didn't go 100% smoothly. The blocks encountered by this energy were rapidly cleansed, in propelling me to do things that were slightly out of the ordinary... and caused some temporary issues that are now resolved. I am lucky I didn't intentionally cut off the flow of this serpent energy, because if you cut off the flow as it's trying to penetrate you can end up with alooooooooot of problems, mental mainly, and physical problems. I have reason to believe that my Kundalini didn't finish it's job, it definitely penetrated all my chakras, though in hindsight meeting some resistance in my upper chakras because I was fearful of what would happen to me, I felt I was dying (in a very real way I was) and this may have not allowed it to awaken as fully... but nevertheless it brought some pretty out there experiences and great peace, but there is still more to this transformation process, as I am aware of, thus, it was a pretty damn ridiculously strong 'arousal'.

If you are NOT prepared for Kundalini, it will most likely do you more harm than good. For it to be as pleasurable and amazing as possible, and by golly was it damn.. amazing it was the most pleasurable and eye opening thing that has ever happened to me... umm you need to let it occur naturally, experience life... live life... connect to who you are and when there is no doubt in your mind about when you are ready, declare the intention and then sit back and relax for the rollercoaster. But under no circumstances should you force this energy to prematurely awaken, no no no. Doing it through meditation isn't necessarily bad, but you have to have gone through the whole living life and connecting to who you are (preparation) beforehand, and besides, you are connected to god, god is a thinking, knowing above all loving being, all you have to do is say, "I'm ready" and it will be done. Besides, it's alot more beautiful that way anyway than sitting in an obscure posture for ages to 'achieve' something. Where's the vitality in that?

I should probably stress that during this process, I knew exactly what was happening, but I had never heard of the term 'Kundalini' ever before in my life as it was happening. I only heard about Kundalini about.. a month after the my awakening. I sort of replied with 'Hm.' Lol. How did I know? AGAIN, it's not rocket science, God is within you, It was clearly explained to me what I was going through (through feeling within myself) I knew it was a spiritual, healing awakening and transformation, I didn't need to go read a book about it or look it up or follow a set of procedures in unnatural, counter-intuitive methods and visualizations to do so, I just said 'LETS GO!!!!' Lol...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrMarley

WOoOoOoOaAhH... Easy tiger. Please do not attempt to awaken Kundalini... Kundalini should be awakened naturally, it's really not something you should see as an 'achievement' in my opinion, that view sort of drains the poetic beauty of such a transformation. I have gone through Kundalini, and let me tell you, it was pretty tough. I had an awakening actually, shortly after joining dreamviews, after declaring to God quite a clear intent, 'I am ready to undergo your healing, your therapy, please... guide me'. Literally immediately after that I was tested, and experienced some scary stuff, but the process was pretty amazing and healing, but at it's culmination, well lets just say it didn't go 100% smoothly. The blocks encountered by this energy were rapidly cleansed, in propelling me to do things that were slightly out of the ordinary... and caused some temporary issues that are now resolved. I am lucky I didn't intentionally cut off the flow of this serpent energy, because if you cut off the flow as it's trying to penetrate you can end up with alooooooooot of problems, mental mainly, and physical problems. I have reason to believe that my Kundalini didn't finish it's job, it definitely penetrated all my chakras, though in hindsight meeting some resistance in my upper chakras because I was fearful of what would happen to me, I felt I was dying (in a very real way I was) and this may have not allowed it to awaken as fully... but nevertheless it brought some pretty out there experiences and great peace, but there is still more to this transformation process, as I am aware of, thus, it was a pretty damn ridiculously strong 'arousal'.

If you are NOT prepared for Kundalini, it will most likely do you more harm than good. For it to be as pleasurable and amazing as possible, and by golly was it damn.. amazing it was the most pleasurable and eye opening thing that has ever happened to me... umm you need to let it occur naturally, experience life... live life... connect to who you are and when there is no doubt in your mind about when you are ready, declare the intention and then sit back and relax for the rollercoaster. But under no circumstances should you force this energy to prematurely awaken, no no no. Doing it through meditation isn't necessarily bad, but you have to have gone through the whole living life and connecting to who you are (preparation) beforehand, and besides, you are connected to god, god is a thinking, knowing above all loving being, all you have to do is say, "I'm ready" and it will be done. Besides, it's alot more beautiful that way anyway than sitting in an obscure posture for ages to 'achieve' something. Where's the vitality in that?

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Indeed, the surrender to kundalini shakti is more like a journey through life and death and rebirth and everything in between, rather than some achievement that is acquired and then tossed aside. Without the proper knowledge or respect for what's happening, people may be blinded and burned by the light.

It's not just this little trickle of energy, like the bits of chi developed through a day of kung or some really profound meditative absorption... It is waking up to what it really means to be, It is diving into the stream of universe all around you. You will not be able to ride Her, She is not a horse, but a dragon, whereas you doesn't even enter the equation and had best get out of the way. All of the power you think you have will melt in your hands, all of what you think you are vanishes, there is only that truth which cannot be transmitted through words. It is a wonderful thing.

Response to MrMarley on the question of divine infallibility:

Thanks very much for your thoughts. This is an important topic for me, as it is for most people of course, and its an area where I could obviously benefit from improvement.

As I experience it, there isn't a clean, perfect delineation between 'God the creator', and 'parasitic life forms of the spirit world'. I have different thoughts about the two, and I seek guidance in one direction and not the other, but it doesn't seem to me to be wholly true to partition them that way.

People whom I have known who say they can make that distinction seem to me to share these characteristics, along with their virtues: arrogance, passive-aggressiveness, and incorrigibility. Though they may be quite intelligent and earnest in their faith, at whatever point they're wrong about something and their thought of God seems to be telling them they're right, they're nailed to it and can't get off of it, even long after the karmic consequences have become quite painful. Granted my lack of trust has drawbacks also, I'd rather not waste the hard earned lessons of people who have tried the other route.

As an illustration of how a creator God blends with evil godhead's like Satan....consider the parasitic lifeforms of the physical and spiritual worlds. Who created those? In my mind, those forms are there for evil, and also for good, depending on what question you're asking about them. Manifestation seems to me to be sort of where God and Satan are in agreement.

This topic also ties in with what I said about models. I don't believe that a person's awareness of God is direct in the sense that they imagine it to be, I think its an emotional or noetic representation of God, even though they don't believe that it is such because it seems different than other more sensate models that they're aware of. Though I can't tell what someone else is aware of, since it is always distorted by the limitations of my thinking, this interpretation seems to fit all the symptoms quite well.

The God that guides me is qualified by limitations of my own mindset, and demons have something essential to offer also, if approached in the right way. To illustrate what I mean by the latter, I'll briefly repeat a story I've posted before. In a dream a few years ago I was phychicly attacked by a malevolent blue light. It seemed to be pretty much an embodiment of evil, and it had a will that was definitely not mine. Afterwards though, when I looked at it another way, the extroverted fear was a reflection of my own frustration, as if the attacking spirit was holding up a mirror. From that standpoint, the experience was quite helpful, and the intent seems quite benevolent. Intellectually wanting to change is one thing, but by feeling who I am in the part of me that is that way, I can actually change a little bit.

The God that I know embodies justice and love, but also has a hardness and coldness to it. I'm pretty sure its that way because I'm also hard and cold, and my experience of it will change when I change. But who made me the way I am? Was it entirely my choice? Was my brutal childhood experience my choice? From where does the darkness originate? In a way it was my doing, and yet, I don't think a clear line can be drawn there either, separating me from God.

Although other people's thoughts of God do not suffer from the limitations that mine does, they do suffer from other limitations, though some of those are hard to see and deal with in the context of a strong God-is-perfect thought. And symptoms of those limitations can be clearly visible to other people.

As a side note, I think that the light/darkness metaphor for good and evil eventually becomes a limitation. Darkness is soothing, healing, and light is not an unqualified good. And darkness is not a synonym for deception. Deceptive spirits take advantage of darkness, but the darkness did not put them there.

As another aside that may be illustrative of the God issue, A Course in Miracles is an example of a teaching that holds God to be perfect, and our own spirits, as extensions of God, to be perfect. According to this philosophy our apparent imperfection is delusional, and healing is a matter of changing our perceptions. Fear, guilt, and aggression, in this view, are always entirely insane as reactions to things. I've read the book through twice carefully, long as it is, and think I benefited from it. But I have this criticism: if the whole source of wrong and suffering in our experience is our own perception, and if following the Course will change that perception, as it promises, then what happens if we do that and there is still wrong and suffering? It must be our fault, we must not really be following the course with our whole minds. Since that's our own doing, unavoidably we feel guilt about it. And the Course is the answer to guilt, so we practice it and believe in it with even more earnestness, thereby tying ourselves in tighter and tighter knots.

It seems to me that believing in divine infallibility has a similar kind of hazard attached to it, even though it may not be as relentlessly comprehensive as it is in the Course. At some level it becomes painfully difficult to admit a fault, because we strongly believe there is no fault at that level, and we regard that belief as crucial to our spiritual well being.

I can see that a person can get a lot of mileage out of trusting in their own deep perfection - I've done enough of that to experience how it works. I've also gotten a lot of mileage out of being comfortable with and honest about my imperfection, and that extends to my God or higher self. For me, both sides of this seem to be essential.

Shadowofwind and MrMarly, This is going to be seem and off topic for this thread, at first. It is only touching on the tiniest part of what the two of you have been talking about. Just one way that some cultures tie up the loose ends on the subject, a way that helps me.
Many people, even many Hindus themselves, believe Hinduism is polytheistic. It actually is not. The concept is that what ever creates the universe and all of existence, is so vast and beyond our grasping, that it is of little use to focus on that thing. Humans need to break things into knowable parts. So, Christian theoists break it first into the trinity, Hindus into three broad categories. An example is the term Shiva, a simple concept that life changes. The term 'the destroyer' just repressenting that in observing the cosmos, a clear reality is observed, which is time passes, what you know will be altered from day to day, daytime will go away, followed by night, then a new day. That is just one of three broad concepts they feel helps put the nature of God into a knowable context.
They then subdivide these weighty concepts into more clear concepts. Each is given a name and some traits, so they can approach knowing God in sections that are less beyond Human understanding.
I for one, feel this means that I can believe God is everything, but allow myself the help of thinking in less lofty ways, that are easier to deal with. The westernized names could be things like 'God as Light' 'God as Darkness' 'God as Love' or 'God as Conflict'
When a Christian makes contact with what might be 'God as Love' the feeling is God can do no wrong and loves all his creation. Well, that is true, of THAT aspect of God. The force you may call Christ, can be looked at as 'God as Compassion' The type of thinking here allows for a deep devotion to 'God as Charity' 'God as Father' and so on,,,without any contridiction when people say "what about the suffering, what about evil" God is also knowable in the aspect of 'God as Free Will' and 'God as Physical Law'
Physical law says animals must eat, free will allows them to eat other creatures. God is no less present.
Im sure I have rambled a bit, and the train of thought seems far off the mark of this thread, which is about Chakras. Here is the connection to the thread.
Chakras, humans also are not readily capable of understanding their own personal connection to God in the extreme Macro picture. We do the same type of thought and thus break our divine connection into Seven easily explored areas. Lowest Chakra: We exist in the physical world. Second:We are driven by forces of nature (hunger, reproduction) Third: We can exurt our intentions on the world, changin thought into action. Forth: We are not just physical, we are also emotional. Fifth: We are not alone and interact with other, emotion being. Sixth: We are not just physical and emotional, but intellectual, which is some thing new, not directly realated to emotion of physics. Here we precieve and interprate. Seven: We feel there is another thing above physical, emotional, and mental. That thing is a mystery, but we call it in broad terms spiritual.
Each of these ways fit the God created us in his image idea. 'Shadowofwind as emotions', 'MrMarley as spirituality', 'sivason as a physical body'
Through meditation and Kundalini we can focus on knowing ourselves at each of this divisions. That is the basic breakdown. The mystical experience of Kundalini allows us to precieve an energy type in seperation from the big picture and then experience the rise of Kundalini which creates the grand picture of who we are.
There are more Chakra, and minor ones. More aspects that one can invision, but are a bit out of the easy 1, 2, 3 breakdown. For instanse the trait given to the eigth: we can be in contact with the rest of the spiritual beings in a way that does not require the physical world, a preception of interconnectedness. At that energy level you will feel as if you recieve knowledge from the universe at large. Some will be truth, but being human we will flavor it withour lower chakra, like thought pattern, emotional standing, and our basic drives. To a person who actually has undergone a kundalini awakening, knowledge can be recieved 'from God' but as Shadowofwind cautions, it is not guarenteed to be 100%, you may pick up on truths shared by many beings, but that is vauge and flawed in some way, you may get a perfect message from that 8th chakra, but in trying to bring it back down into the physical world, it is colored by your own experience and pre-concevied mental modells.

Shadowofwind, I hope you will share your 'Blue Light' experience on my thread "Other Worldly Beings". It is not a thread for things you know are 'other wordlly' but to share interesting dreams that MAY lead one to wonder. Thanks

OK. There's almost no end to what I could post there in that context though, since pretty much all of my dreams have that element in them.

See my other thread on chakras for a continuation of this conversation.

For this topic, with no exact reply.

I got a good advice: if your head and chakras are not okay, for first step, find out a problem and slowly develop yourself.

I followed this... find out a fact what causes problem... after that, develop yourself. If somebody pushes the brake in your car, why do you want to push the gas pedal much more?