Anchoring yourself in peace

[Original Poster]

I've noticed that when I first returned to this forum after my absence, I was much better at dealing with people. As time went on, I lost my grounding. Now, in order to protect my ego, I've found myself sinking to the same level as the sad, substandard posters that think their ridicule and flaming is somehow funny. Only by reading through an old post of mine did I even become aware of how badly my attitude had been warped over the last 6 months. So I'm asking for advice. Unfortunately, this is the same everywhere I've been. For every intellectually sound poster, there's at least two antagonistic trolls set on hooking you into some trivial ego-battle. Dreamviews was one of the better communities I've seen, actually. But it's gotten worse, of late. But I also know I couldn't find somewhere better, because most other forums on the internet are divided even worse. There's no constructive discussion, there are forums of moonbattery where proper skepticism is ridiculed and flamed; and there are forums where any idea that hasn't already been published by a scholarly source is dismissed at moonbattery. There's no respect for ideas on the internet. Really, there can't be. Being disrespectful of ideas and differing points of view cannot exactly be banned, now can it? And some websites attract certain polarities of people while others attract different ones. Dreamviews was nice because it had a healthy skeptical element but this element is getting overcrowded by a rather sad mob of egotistical jerks. And that's just the way life works. You can't avoid it. People will try to bring you down. They will call you names and make fun of you because it requires less thinking than breaking apart your claims. I originally came back to this forum in the hopes people would attack my claims so I could test them. But now, they just attack me and I gain nothing constructive. So my question is, should I just give up? Try to find somewhere else with a skeptical element that hasn't been corroded by arrogance? Or do I simply need to anchor myself in detachment and continue this process, holding out for the drops of true, constructive wisdom that slip in between the heaps of worthless flaming?

[Seroquel]

So my question is, should I just give up? Yes.

[Burke]

I'm one who believes ignoring something and turning to ignorance is never the best answer, and that's what I would advise you to do. It takes an incredible amount of patience and cool-headedness (if that's a word ) to deal with the vast majority of the internet. Personally, I've noticed this deterioration that you mentioned, but only really in the extended discussion forum where people are naturally talking about topics which are often debated. When I first joined I was incredibly happy that I had found a forum full of people with an IQ over 80, and who have very little, if any, need or want to flame someone else for having different ideals. Coming from somebody who often reads the majority of comments on site such as youtube, this site was a massive intellectual relief and still is. I've also seen that this flaming and "trolling" is mainly centered around a few individuals, which starts off as a simple debate and eventually grows into a thread full of hate. I think that all we need is a reminder that this forum is a place for intellectual discussion and for a group of individuals who share a common interest in lucid dreaming to talk, ask/answer questions, and to just hang out. That it's not a place for blatant insults, or any insults for that matter, which, even if they may be on topic, does not contribute anything to the conversation. I think you should just try to keep a calm mind and maybe even remind them that this is not a place for derogative comments. If you believe in the saying, "sticks and stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me," then the internet should be the ultimate safe haven for everyone. All we really need is a reminder that insults are of no benefit to anyone, and that no matter how "good" it makes you feel, nobody enjoys it. If you really don't think you can handle it, then take a break. Nobody's keeping you here against your will, and if people who resort to making fun of somebody to make themselves feel good are really getting to you then you should take a small hiatus. I took a break for several months last year and when I came back I felt great. It's been a couple months since I've been back and I'm still thoroughly enjoying myslef. In the end, only you can decide what's best for yourself though, and I won't try to force anything on you.

[DrunkenArse]

So what does this thread have to do with "peace"? Is "peace" code word for "agreeing with me"?

[Original Poster]

Maybe a hiatus is in order. I feel like DV deserves better. But then again, participating in a petty ego match against another member is already handing them victory in the first place. They succeeded at what they wanted. And if I can't refrain from that, then DV deserves better than me, too. I suppose this thread is not just about asking for advice on how to keep myself grounded in the face of sophistry, it's also a warning to others. I love the liberation I have obtained from the need to be right, but because people's egos get intertwined within the debates here, I end up getting attached to not being proven wrong, despite the fact that I arrived at most of my conclusions by relating different issues and finding commonalities most people would not see. I can't exactly blame people for not thinking the same way I do, I think in a very unique way. But I get hindered by the fact that some people have no respect for different modes of thought. They think their concept of the universe is the only one that matters, and everyone needs to process information the same way they do. And it gets really frustrating. This is not a problem that will go away with hiatus, nor a problem I can solve. People are who they are. They will respond to ideas as is dictated by their nature. I cannot force someone to respect an idea they do not feel inclined to respect. I cannot force someone to become humble of their own place in the world and learn to appreciate the different positions of others. All I can do is present my position as honestly as possible and allow the crucifixion to take place.

[Original Poster]

So what does this thread have to do with "peace"? Is "peace" code word for "agreeing with me"? Elaborate.

[DrunkenArse]

All I can do is present my position as honestly as possible and allow the crucifixion to take place. Are you high on acid? Come on down off that cross. It's nice down here...

[Original Poster]

PhilosopherStoned is a perfect example. Do I just ignore him? Do I attempt to come up with a clever quip in retort? Do I attempt to correct his vague misconstruction of my statements, so that we can reach common ground? What action would not leave me feeling deflated? What action would not derail the thread? What action would teach him that he's coming at this from the wrong angle?

[DrunkenArse]

No, you definitely shouldn't ignore me. You should probably flail pathetically on your cross while waiting to be crucified in the hopes that a sympathetic mod decides to ban me...

[DrunkenArse]

To answer your question seriously, you have a bad habit, which I'm tired of pointing out, of misconstruing any attack on your rather large ego as "flaming" or "trolling". This is compounded by the fact that you tend to view attacks on positions you take as attacks on your ego. It's frankly a joke. So, if you want to stop getting deflated, learn to accept criticism.

[Original Poster]

Let's try this So what does this thread have to do with "peace"? Is "peace" code word for "agreeing with me"? I am not interested in having people agree with me. I wish to learn from people with different ways of thinking and different points of view. But I find that people are not responding in a way that is constructive to me. For instance this very post, in this thread, is not constructive. It is everything I described in the OP as what brings me down by provoking me into petty ego battles. This is because it's a strawman. From my position, there's no way you could have read the OP that way. It appears that you would purposefully disrupt the discussion with this statement. Are you high on acid? Come on down off that cross. It's nice down here... This, again, appears to me as a misconstruction of my statement. The word crucifixion rings arrogance in your mind, so you attack it as arrogant, but I did not intend it arrogantly. I intended it as a question, should I damn the consequences that arrive from posters like you and just continue to articulate my position as honestly as possible? That is my question.

[DrunkenArse]

Yes, of course you should. But you should also learn from different view points. EDIT: I know you said you want to do that. You should actually do it.

[Original Poster]

I am trying to learn from these view points but it's difficult when they aren't constructive. It's difficult to learn from a view point about my position on extra dimensions when the person criticizing my viewpoint believes I am defining dimensions as different universes rather than spatial axes, for instance. I cannot learn from someone who's not responding to my claim, but is responding to a different one. I cannot learn from someone who is trying to feed their ego by bashing someone else without responding to their ideas. I cannot learn from someone who classifies me as deluded when I see them as equally deluded.

[DrunkenArse]

You cannot learn when your ego is too big to be wrong

[Original Poster]

But what makes you think my ego is too big to be wrong simply because I ask you to try harder to understand my position before responding presumptuously? I cannot learn from something unrelated to my claims.

[Sea07]

Wow, actually Omnis Dei, seeing as I have only recently joined this forum I feel the same way you used to. I was grateful of the intelligent people who actually want to help others. PhilosopherStoned, I would like to kindly ask you to treat this environment as one of peace and harmony. I'm also hoping that the environment of this forum doesn't travel 'downhill' because I just want to be able to talk to intelligent and interesting people who are actually attempting to help others, not make fools of themselves by putting others down. Omnis, I think that no matter where you go on the internet you will always get the 'trolls and spammers'. I think the only reason they do what they do is because when they are making fun of people on the internet, they don't have to be face to face, it makes them feel safe because no matter how arrogant they are they will have no consequence to their actions. The best we intelligent people can do is just accept this and try to focus on the other intelligent people who are here.

[Burke]

I think the main problem, at least with this thread, is that people are interpretting the same thing differently. Philosopher, the "peace" he is talking about is the peace of being detached from the world, the peace of being ignorant. "Ignorance is bliss." He's asking if he should accept this knowing that he is being ignorant, yet being a happier person because of it. Omnis, I think you are just overreacting a little bit to a misconception. If one does not answer anything, then try to see if they misinterpreted it. If you can't understand it enough then simply ask them to explain a bit more, which you did. However, back a bit on you philosopher, if somebody asks you to explain something it means they don't understand it, so speaking in anything resembling a code or any sort of symbolism will come off as you "trolling" to them. As you can see, Omnis did not completely understand what you were trying to say with your "cross" statement, so he replied with a statement which, when interpreted that way, could cause somebody to be insulted by it. I think that these situations are simply a case of people not thinking that the other person may simply not completely comprehend what one is saying. However, when asked to explain you should always do your best to just come out and say it. Granted, if somebody is bright enough to understand your metaphor then that's fine, but if they didn't understand the original post then I don't think a metaphor of any kind will be of much use. Then again, you could just be trying to start an arguement, but I don't want to believe that. I know that you are a pretty smart person, but there's a fine line between being "smart" and being a "smart-ass."

[Original Poster]

I have trouble because it doesn't appear enough to people that I clarify myself better and find common ground. If I need to clarify myself better, suddenly that means I have to admit to being wrong. I don't believe in right and wrong. I believe in growth and stagnation. You cannot prove me wrong, you can only help me grow.

[Kuhnada29]

Sounds like your ego being hurt. Or do I simply need to anchor myself in detachment and continue this process, holding out for the drops of true, constructive wisdom that slip in between the heaps of worthless flaming? This. Not everybody is going to agree with your point of view. If you are seriously true to your beliefs, criticism won't even affect you. Ego battles are simply ways of getting you to pay attention to someone and making you see their view of reality. Anchor yourself in peace, just let people believe what they want but stay true to your own beliefs. Laugh at the trolls or even joke back with them. If you find something useful that agrees with your beliefs in a thread then add that to your bank of knowledge and wisdom and move on. Lighten up. That's my advice.

[DrunkenArse]

However, back a bit on you philosopher, if somebody asks you to explain something it means they don't understand it, so speaking in anything resembling a code or any sort of symbolism will come off as you "trolling" to them. I have never known OD to ask me for clarification. I like explaining math. OD simply asserts that he knows. He may know now but he had no idea when he started the dimensions thread. I still bet that he couldn't even give us a characterization of flat n-space. At any rate, he's already claimed on this thread that he doesn't believe that admitting that he's wrong about things is central to his growth. This attitude leads to a mess of confused ideas accumulating upon themselves and taking up space in the head. It leads to confusion. Sure enough, he's seriously confused. And he has a huge ego. I guess somii was right and he is a waste of my time...

[mcwillis]

I for one have enjoyed our discussions over the last week or so becuase we have a mutual respect for each other even at times when we have had differences of opinion. I am a lot more tolerant here than I was a year ago. I can still be highly susceptible to resentment because the other day I nearly replied to another member's post, 'Fuck off you twat' but I didn't because I know that pride is my enemy and tolerance is my friend. Regular meditation has really helped me to become more tolerant towards other people and to dampen my pride.

[Original Poster]

I have never known OD to ask me for clarification. Then you should pay more attention. Mcwillis - I too, am striving to transcend the pettiness and resentment that seems so reflexive when trying to have a proper discussion. It's a little difficult. I mean, just observe the personal attacks I've dealt with in this thread alone. Only someone with no ego to speak of wouldn't have a reactionary instinct.

[greenhavoc]

I too, am striving to transcend the pettiness and resentment that seems so reflexive when trying to have a proper discussion Who's fault is it that you may be going to prison?

[Original Poster]

I was naive, but I certainly wasn't predatory. I was taken advantage of, manipulated by people that are supposed to stand for justice. You could say it is my fault for not seeing the wolf through the sheep's clothing. It is my fault for assuming this world had standards. But what does that have to do with the line you were quoting?

[labyrint]

"Being disrespectful of ideas and differing points of view cannot exactly be banned, now can it?" It has been proven that if you position yourself under the owners of this site (who I don't know if they even exist, only question asked about matter II've seen is left unanswered) you can be banned. If this is a communal desicion it's still by some power players around here, so it's just a mirror of society. One of nicest I've been but for the repeat.. It has been proven that you can be banned. It's the same thing with Beyond Dreaming section, by rules some topics should go there, so I must keep my expression very centered when posted outside of it. For we have rules, justice and owners here, it's somedays like a sugarcoated nightmare.. Try to see my point here: sometimes I see myself as Lucifer imprisoned in material world, sometimes in chryosleep while some middle-ego manager plays the god here to really wake me up.. for real and finally. Your mirror thread has really helped me to ground myself also in the 'real' side of coin, while not loosing touch to my transpersonal God-side.. this is real if it's real, and my days are more like films, but I'm learning to act outside my confort zone