Thread: The Invasion has Begun

Just started watching. I bet I make it less than 2 minutes before the psuedo-science starts.

Fuck. I was thinking there was gonna be a minute or two of filler.

At 50 seconds, it's announced that the guest is here to talk about "reptilians".

Sounds like alien stuff.

Pseudoscience/alien stuff belongs in Inner Sanctum, see forum descriptions if you are confused. Please stop posting this stuff in the sadist area, thanks.

edit: I thought IS description mentions aliens, but it doesn't...oh, well it should.

They are talking about the illuminati/reptilians undersea base that was destroyed. Apparently they caught thousands of reptiles but they are being tried in the intergalactic court so I guess we are not allowed to actually put them on tv or scientifically study them. That might be against intergalactic law I guess.

I guess it goes without saying that it doesn't matter how much you say 'scientific' it doesn't make something stupid real or scientific.

I guess intergalactic law isn't any more science friendly than law has traditionally been here on earth.

Originally Posted by nina

Pseudoscience/alien stuff belongs in Inner Sanctum, see forum descriptions if you are confused. Please stop posting this stuff in the sadist area, thanks.

Hmmm. Science person = sadist?

Does not compute!

I will now proceed to torture some sense into you.

Could you explain it?

I am merely bringing to attention your silly association between science and cynical falsification, nina. I find your dichotomy to be unhealthy.

I place my threads where they belong, none of them have been misplaced. If I want to discuss aliens with people who take them seriously, I would post in IS. Obviously that is not my intention.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I am merely bringing to attention your silly association between science and cynical falsification, nina. I find your dichotomy to be unhealthy.

I place my threads where they belong, none of them have been misplaced. If I want to discuss aliens with people who take them seriously, I would post in IS. Obviously that is not my intention.

It's not cynical falsification if nothing has been presented to falsify though. You must understand that to meaningfully discuss aliens with people that don't take them seriously, you're going to have to bring something serious to the table, right?

Define serious.

Not easily and trivially explained by phenomena that allow us to retain the broad shape of our understanding of the universe. We will always favor explanations that do that for the simple reason that most of the time, that's the right thing to do. It's only when we run into something that forces us to overturn our understanding to explain it that we will do that.

I don't understand. Are you talking about not asserting counter-intuitive concepts without evidence? Because that guy has contacts in the andromeda government, man. And we're at war, which is deadly serious.

I don't have a problem with alien talk on the science board but there is a big difference between talking about aliens in a scientific way and saying there are alien military bases all across the planet with thousands of aliens invading earth and no one has noticed yet, despite communication with other alien species being very common.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I don't understand. Are you talking about not asserting counter-intuitive concepts without evidence?

No, it has nothing to do with intuition. Suppose that you make some statement X. If, in order to accept your statement as being valid, I have to discount a good portion of what I believe I know about the universe, I'm not going to do it if I can find some other way to explain X that fits into what I already know about the universe.

So for us to take you seriously, you're going to have to come up with evidence for extra-terrestrial visitation that can't be explained away.

The ability to explain things away is very important for preserving world views. It's a good thing as long as we don't get carried away with it and end up tossing out correct statements. And remember, often times explaining something away is just pushing the boundaries of human knowledge in a way that's perhaps a little less radical than the originator of the statement X would have preferred.

I don't think that anything you've posted on this thread with respect to aliens constitutes a serious statement.

How is that not intuitive? How do you hold a certain assumption over another without using your intuitive model of the universe?

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Hmmm. Science person = sadist?

Does not compute!

I will now proceed to torture some sense into you.

Could you explain it?

Oh, I just said that because it's the "S&M" forum.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

How is that not intuitive? How do you hold a certain assumption over another without using your intuitive model of the universe?

Because while individual scientists may use intuition to greater or lesser effect while deciding which ideas to pursue, science as a whole is not an intuitive field. The models which are constructed are based on the criteria of falsifiability, predictive power, and rational thought. Once science is done with a result, there should be zero intuition required to grasp it.

So it's not that we're using an intuitive model of the universe, it's that we're using a rational model of the universe which our intuition tells us is the right one. If you want to sink it, try more effectively by using evidence that the rational mind must succumb to.

Originally Posted by nina

Oh, I just said that because it's the "S&M" forum.

Whoosh and that went right over my head. I've actually made that connection before but didn't get it this time. Probably because it wasn't staring me in the face.

There's all sorts of counter-intuitive scientific theory that is now regarded mostly as factual because the evidence has supported it to a great enough degree that it's become the only rational conclusion for anyone who's done the research. What makes science such a good field is its ability to take the intuitive model of the world and flip it on its head. However, there is still an intuitive model of the universe that scientists still utilize for the process of falsification. But my words are falling short at expressing the argument here. If you look up Wittgenstein's Poker, the book describes the conversation between Ludwig Wittgenstein and Karl Popper which is really a heated debate between Falsification and Validation.

You guys don't know what you're missing, this White Knights program is the best shit ever