Thread: meditating on shrooms?

I recommend reading Thich Naht Hahn, Alan Watts, Eckhart Tolle, Lao Tzu or somebody of that caliber before the trip, rather than during. Once you are in the shroom induced mental state, taking in new information and processing it will become more difficult, especially if you haven't got much experience in meditation or psychedelics. After absorbing a book or two of good wisdom, the shrooms will enable you to process it on a different level and have a very advantageous experience.

Meditation is not an action, this will become evident on psychedelics. It becomes increasingly difficult to perform the action of meditation. Meditation is something which arises when one clears away the mind-fog. If you wish to have a successful meditation, allow yourself to have a bad one. Allow yourself to think, allow yourself to punish yourself for thinking, and allow yourself to punish yourself for punishing yourself.

So let me replace the word meditation with silence. In this case, I find shrooms to be extremely conducive, especially if one has recently read a piece of profound wisdom and has that to ponder on. Combining psychedelics with silence and with inaction is like pie and ice-cream. No action on psychedelics can contend with the bliss and wisdom one has access to through inaction.

So I say go for it, and take as many as you want, but rethink the implication you have as to what meditation is. You do not need to meditate on psychedelics. Merely remove the obstacles which stop you from meditating.

by meditate i mean focus on the breath or focus on the chakras. couldnt a chakra meditation be alot more powerfull with shrooms?

But again you are giving yourself the false implication. This is a concept that you would understand more easily on the shrooms, but I'll try to articulate it anyways.

You're trying too hard to utilize it. You're trying too hard to be productive. To use both shrooms and meditation for productivity. On shrooms, this attitude in regard to meditation will be more difficult. You will not be able to concentrate in the way you are hoping to. However you can have an excellent trip if you allow yourself, and an excellent meditation.

So start by allowing yourself. If you wish to focus on your breath, know all you must do is be aware of your breath. If you wish to focus on your chakras, know that all you must do is be aware of them. Focus implies force. When you catch yourself thinking, it feels as though you must force yourself to bring your awareness back to your breath. Give your thoughts space. Give your breath space. Give your body space, and give your feelings space.

That's why I say read a good teacher before the trip, because their teachings will make all sorts of sense on the shrooms and it will be very serviceable to meditation. It is very important to understand what you're doing wrong, otherwise combining shrooms and meditation will leave you chasing your tail in frustration.

I wouldn't recommend this as hallucinogenics damage your 'nadis', the filaments that connect your subtle bodies to your physical body. It will, to some extent, be detrimental to proper meditation in the future.

They don't necessarily damage the Nadis. It's not straight cause and effect. However, it becomes more possible to do so. On psychedelics, you are taking a greater responsibility over your body and have to practice greater awareness and greater self control.

It doesn't damage them outright but it removes the safety blocks

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

But again you are giving yourself the false implication. This is a concept that you would understand more easily on the shrooms, but I'll try to articulate it anyways.

You're trying too hard to utilize it. You're trying too hard to be productive. To use both shrooms and meditation for productivity. On shrooms, this attitude in regard to meditation will be more difficult. You will not be able to concentrate in the way you are hoping to. However you can have an excellent trip if you allow yourself, and an excellent meditation.

So start by allowing yourself. If you wish to focus on your breath, know all you must do is be aware of your breath. If you wish to focus on your chakras, know that all you must do is be aware of them. Focus implies force. When you catch yourself thinking, it feels as though you must force yourself to bring your awareness back to your breath. Give your thoughts space. Give your breath space. Give your body space, and give your feelings space.

That's why I say read a good teacher before the trip, because their teachings will make all sorts of sense on the shrooms and it will be very serviceable to meditation. It is very important to understand what you're doing wrong, otherwise combining shrooms and meditation will leave you chasing your tail in frustration.

I think this is great advice. I recommend taking enough mushrooms to melt everything away. Don't try to do anything, just be open and experience.

you don't meditate on mushrooms.you're tripping on mushrooms.

Originally Posted by tsiouz

you're tripping on mushrooms.

And? You're 'tripping' on life right now, strapped on to the wheel of time catapulting through a jungle of space-formations at light speed, and nothing is as it seems. The ability to recognize the truth in the circumstances we are faced with at all times is the purest form of meditation, and in that context every single moment is a precious opportunity to meditate. It doesn't matter what substances you've imbibed, whether you're a blue-collar salary man or reincarnated saint; if you become trapped in your preconceived notions of 'what is' and 'what is not' then you are no more awake than a sleep-walker that thinks he's laying on a bed.

"We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world."
- Buddha, Dhammapada

subject of meditation as a start is clearing subconcious from recordings.psychotropic drugs are grounding the analytical part of the brain and leave the reactive open so you're coming to a state of induction.after that the reactive part is leaving the subconcious open to constant non controlled recordings and fills it with useless information which then overloads and start vomiting hallusinations.And personally i think that if you wanna use drugs its fine but there is no potential for meditation with psychotropic.

Originally Posted by telethiese

And? You're 'tripping' on life right now, strapped on to the wheel of time catapulting through a jungle of space-formations at light speed, and nothing is as it seems.

What a beautiful way of describing experience.

Originally Posted by telethiese

The ability to recognize the truth in the circumstances we are faced with at all times is the purest form of meditation, and in that context every single moment is a precious opportunity to meditate. It doesn't matter what substances you've imbibed...

I had never quite thought of it this way before, but this is quite true. Even if one has not taken any "drugs", there are dozens of substances we consume every day that can affect our consciousness and experience. Caffeine, sugar, oxygen, even the hormones in our bodies all affect us, but this shouldn't stop us from recognizing the truth available to us at every moment.

I wonder how many people in this thread have actually consumed psilocybin, let alone attempted to meditate whilst tripping. It almost defeats the purpose of taking mushrooms altogether, although it might be good practice honing one's psychological toughness. Minimizing the effects through meditation simply isn't appealing, but enhancing the effects is something else. I'm not sure I would name that meditation.

I have. It's the best way to do shrooms in my opinion. I would define meditation as surrender. And I find shrooms most enjoyable in a state of surrender. In fact on most psychedelics, I eventually come to a state of mindfulness anyways. So to me, once you find that thinking constantly is actually bothersome (which psychedelics makes evident) and you realize the only reason you think constantly is because it helps you keep some sense of illusory identity in order to stave off the feeling of vulnerability, you realize facing that vulnerability results in a tremendous feeling of peace. So I find psychedelics extremely helpful when working toward mindfulness.

Originally Posted by Phion

Minimizing the effects through meditation simply isn't appealing

Meditation is not becoming physically and psychically dull. It is not getting lost in the intellect or enhancing the body armor around the delicate psyche. It is a state of complete appreciation for what is, which of course begs the question.... What is that? That's meditation, finding out what that is, and enjoying it immensely. That's all.

Originally Posted by telethiese

Meditation is not becoming physically and psychically dull. It is not getting lost in the intellect or enhancing the body armor around the delicate psyche. It is a state of complete appreciation for what is, which of course begs the question.... What is that? That's meditation, finding out what that is, and enjoying it immensely. That's all.

What makes you think attempting to meditate while under the effects of psilocybin would make complete appreciation possible? I'm very well aware how beneficial both meditation and the mind warp of psilocybin can be, but when you consider the goal of meditation and juxtapose with "tripping", I think we begin talking about something else altogether, a hybrid discipline if you will.

I'm not a fan of the word tripping. It's mind medicine. And being in a different state of mind doesn't change what meditation is.

Originally Posted by Phion

What makes you think attempting to meditate while under the effects of psilocybin would make complete appreciation possible? I'm very well aware how beneficial both meditation and the mind warp of psilocybin can be, but when you consider the goal of meditation and juxtapose with "tripping", I think we begin talking about something else altogether, a hybrid discipline if you will.

If you have to attempt to meditate, you're not meditating at all!

It's effortless, in fact you could say that meditation is the complete lack of contrived intention or effort. It is something you are doing all the time, and simply being aware of what you are doing all the time is so simple that many people have become confused.

What a seasoned psychonaut would call going with the flow during a rough acid wave, surrendering to the void during the peak of a 6gram gold cap blowout, letting go the moment the salvia leaves the lungs... that's meditation. Trying to cultivate a blank mind is folly, not meditation... your mind is always a blank slate, that's the whole point! Letting yourself be completely sensitive, completely responsive rather than reactive is the Way. Seeing always through the illusions is the Means.

Really, they give us all of those visualizations and complicated excercises in the hope that one day we will do them without doing them - yielding to the flow, becoming what we dwell upon, and in doing so realizing that it was nothing more than That, all along.


Indeed, the truth has never been preached by the Buddha,
seeing that one has to realize it within oneself.

I would say that some psychotropics like mushrooms can aide with meditation, and help someone experience new areas of awareness and being. Meditation works just as well on its own, and adding psychotropics into the mix changes what we are talking about. Meditation to me, is about finding that focus and peace in yourself, that we are all one and connected. And also for my own spiritual healing, with a quiet mind.

Psychotropics and their spirits offer their own unique experiences and perspectives, and each one will be geared differently towards meditation. Especially with mushrooms and the like, they have their own messages and experiences to share, so although it is good to plan ahead there needs to be room for the flow to happen. So meditation may be too much to handle on something as strong as mushrooms for some people. These are intense and possible life-altering forces, and meditation is not the focus of them. In these cases, it will be the experienced trippers who can get the most of out meditation in these states of consciousness. An example is going to a theme park and riding a rollercoaster. Or maybe going on the lazy river. Each ride at the theme park is just intensifying or changing the way someone has fun. So, with meditation, there are just various ways to experience and perceive it. No one way of meditation is more strong or weak than another, its all meditating. It all works. Psychotropics bring in something that is completely different, so taking part in them is for reasons beyond just wanting to meditate.

Anyway, my opinion is that although psychotropics can aide in meditation, you have to know what they do and which ones will work with your purposes of meditation if you are going in that route. Otherwise, just stick to meditation in the sober state, its just as effective and you can reach the same states of consciousness in them too. To me, meditation at its core is about your inner self and journey, so practice and experience with it will yield higher states of consciousness naturally.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

They don't necessarily damage the Nadis. It's not straight cause and effect. However, it becomes more possible to do so. On psychedelics, you are taking a greater responsibility over your body and have to practice greater awareness and greater self control.

It doesn't damage them outright but it removes the safety blocks

What can be done to prevent damage to the Nadis?

I'm going to be taking mushrooms for the first time in... wow... decades, and damaging the Nadis is the opposite of my goal here.

How will I know if I've damaged them, and if I do, is there anything that can be done to restore them?

Please forgive my ignorance if this is a dumb question.

Lynn

Eat mushrooms. Reap wisdoms. Laugh at your op.

I find that it's impossible to ignore a state of mindfulness with psilocin in my system, and meditation becomes a much more interactive experience for me. Eyes open, eyes closed, being confrontational with the phenomena around you, one seems to get a realistic grasp on the chemistry going on. It's just a good way to get a real feeling for the beauty of things such as impermanence, taking the best of things to carry into the next moment, and just thinking about how everything around you is in a special place just like you.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Meditation is not an action,

I agree with this. Meditation is not an action..it's actually non-action.

I enter meditation states a whole lot easier now by just "not trying". It's just so effortless to stop focusing..so free and so fluid...so relaxing.

I used to get into fancy meditation postures and focus my way into meditative states. Now I can just sit somewhere normally with my eyes open, unfocus, and "change worlds"



I'm more interested in what happens once you focus or unfocus your mind on psychedelics.

Originally Posted by Majestic

I used to get into fancy meditation postures and focus my way into meditative states. Now I can just sit somewhere normally with my eyes open, unfocus, and "change worlds"

This, as well, is something I've come to be able to do overtime. Once you get into the idea of gravitating all thoughts towards the nonpoints (I'm not sure how to describe it really... it's as if you stop asking yourself to get from point A to point B in your mind), and let things naturally drift. It's as if your mind finally doesn't need to feel forces tugging it to this and that, like a compass that's been spinning that finally can be in tune and face north.

Psys act as a good catalyst to breaking free of the "inner voice" dictating how the world is to you, instead, you let the world speak to you with it's own words. It's a really nice experience, and I love it every time. I try to let IT do all the speaking. It's a pretty natural pace once the experience starts going.

Going back through this thread, I'd like to point out the book Remember, Be Here Now by Ram Dass. I find that reading through it, or gazing at the wisdom/artwork in the middle facilitates with deep meditation for me. A fair amount of the content is about phenomena that I find hard (or impossible) to articulate from a large/heroic dose of psychedelics.

Does meditation become deeper after having a larger dose trip? Or does it just depend on the person and their intents? At the very least, I feel that boundaries are loosened, and like whats already been said, new possibilities of reality and consciousness are realized and could allow for deeper levels of meditation. Again though, I wouldn't say that psychedelics are needed for deeper levels of meditation.

I think it still comes down to intent, practice, and just "being" and letting go. Still though, while largely unexplanable phenomena can be observed with meditation and psychedelics, I think that specific things can be focused on as well. For me, this could be contact with spirits/entities or memories, or whatever comes to mind. I think there is a difference here between meditating and "just being" and surrendering to the mechanisms of reality, and the conscious-intent exploration/navigation of the state. I think both could be equally terrifying and incredible, and things get real with psychedelics. So I guess as a disclaimer, I wouldn't advice psychedelic meditation for casual endeavors. There may not be a way to be totally prepared, but (hypothetically speaking) you'd better be expecting the whole spectrum of the experience and not just the meditative part, and I don't think this can be stressed enough.

Originally Posted by Neo Neo

Going back through this thread, I'd like to point out the book Remember, Be Here Now by Ram Dass. I find that reading through it, or gazing at the wisdom/artwork in the middle facilitates with deep meditation for me. A fair amount of the content is about phenomena that I find hard (or impossible) to articulate from a large/heroic dose of psychedelics.

Does meditation become deeper after having a larger dose trip? Or does it just depend on the person and their intents? At the very least, I feel that boundaries are loosened, and like whats already been said, new possibilities of reality and consciousness are realized and could allow for deeper levels of meditation. Again though, I wouldn't say that psychedelics are needed for deeper levels of meditation.

I think it still comes down to intent, practice, and just "being" and letting go. Still though, while largely unexplanable phenomena can be observed with meditation and psychedelics, I think that specific things can be focused on as well. For me, this could be contact with spirits/entities or memories, or whatever comes to mind. I think there is a difference here between meditating and "just being" and surrendering to the mechanisms of reality, and the conscious-intent exploration/navigation of the state. I think both could be equally terrifying and incredible, and things get real with psychedelics. So I guess as a disclaimer, I wouldn't advice psychedelic meditation for casual endeavors. There may not be a way to be totally prepared, but (hypothetically speaking) you'd better be expecting the whole spectrum of the experience and not just the meditative part, and I don't think this can be stressed enough.

I would enlist the same caution on trying psychedelics in general. If you're going to buy the ticket you may as well get the most out of the ride. Shrooms serve the purpose of medicine for the psyche, one gets the most out of it when they treat it as such.

As far as whether or not meditation becomes deeper on a higher dose, the easy answer is no. For one, you can never predict what sort of meditation you'll have going into it. If you're expecting to fall right into mindfulness you may find yourself disappointed and subsequently frustrated. A higher dose holds no influence on how you'll find that particular sit. Secondly, mindful meditation is to peer beyond Maya, psychedelics aid in this process but also intensify her dance so it's a double edged sword. The intensity provides enough of an edge to realize your mind is a cage and give you an opportunity to glimpse beyond it, but further increasing the sharpness of this edge does not increase the size of this window. You want "just enough" to make living inside your head unbearable without making your perceptual and cognitive factors too confusing to actually escape it. Adderall can help offset the mental disorientation but brings its own problems; the feeling of connectedness will be buried under an artificially amplified nervous system. Increasing the sensation of realness does not actually make things more real.

TL;DR More intensity does not mean deeper insight. Enlightenment is not waiting at the end of the rabbit hole, enlightenment is what comes after realizing the rabbit hole has no end.