Tips for Manifestation

**shadowofwind** · 07-19-2012 10:20 PM

This comes back to my criticism. Many, many things that people want are not 'easy' after you know what you want and do not doubt, and they become easy only by stealing the fruits of other people's efforts. If you approach it with the mindset that deciding what you want is the main thing that is necessary from you, then other people are getting bent over when "the universe" is bending over for you.

Simple real example: You decide you want to be a Senior Engineer within two years of graduating with a modestly difficult degree. You do not doubt. You network, wheels of destiny turn, you get hired into that position because of your confidence and your contacts. But your actual skills are far inadequate to support your salary. Who is supporting you? The honest, intelligent, effective guy who has spent the last ten years doing the work that generates the revenue, at half your salary.

Another example: I ran across a Discover magazine article a couple of days ago that said some things about quantum physics that are complete bullshit. Its not like there is some disagreement within the scientific community. Discover is produced by the same people who do Penthouse (or used to be anyway), and they don't care about science, they just run whatever sells. Then people who read it who don't have advanced degrees in those areas think that what they're reading is real, not made up. Creating a real, honest, popular science magazine that supports itself with sales is hard to do, it takes a lot of work. And real science takes an extraordinary amount of work, compared to any of the things that happen mostly by themselves once you decide what you want. If what you desire is the experience of success, you rarely get the real, honest success, because that's a lot harder. To get the real success, you have to explicitly want that success to be honest. And that desire involves doubt. You have to doubt what you're doing where its not entirely right, so that you can make it right. If you try to dispense with doubt, you wind up living in a disfunctional clusterfuck of a world where fabrications pass for truths. The lies are like counterfeit idea currency that steal from the people who produce truths. Science has credibility that the publishers of Discover can cash in on only because other people do real science, but that requires work by people who doubt their own thoughts and actions.

**Original Poster** · 07-19-2012 10:50 PM

True, the best model of human progress includes a healthy amount of self-doubt regarding decision making or figuring out what you want.

For me, it honestly feels a lot better to think of myself as a published author that writes good novels rather than, say, Twilight. I do not dream of being the next Stephanie Meyer or even JK Rowling for that matter. I dream of being the next Douglas Adams or George Martin. For me, the burning desire I have is not merely to be successful, but to be an agent of positive transformation in the universe. But I understand, based purely on the sort of success I see in the world, that this attitude is not necessarily prevalent among people who use LOA.

But LOA doesn't mystically save you from bad times, either. Empires collapse no matter how little doubt the emperor had and how much he yearned for power. It's just the way of things. Growth doesn't end just because you've figured out LOA.

**shadowofwind** · 07-19-2012 11:07 PM

Omnis Dei,

You've said repeatedly in this thread that dispensing with doubt is key to LOA. Now you say that the best model of human progress requires a healthy amount of self-doubt. Why then have you been advocating LOA, and not doubting? Of course there are different kinds of things that a person can doubt. But you were talking about not doubting your ability to manifest what you want. And that's exactly what you should be doubting in many situations. The doubt, "I can not have this, this is asking for too much", is exactly what prevents your desire from driving your life into the predatory region, where the only way to satisfy the desire is to prey on other people in some subtle or not so subtle way.

**Original Poster** · 07-20-2012 05:24 AM

But that's not true at all. Your desires themselves evolve as you explore them. Some people do manage to throw doubt away early, and they've caused a lot of havoc. I look at life from two sides, one side is purpose and the other is awareness. This coordinates with the yin-yang on many levels, but some people decide to throw away awareness in pursuit of their strategy, or limit their strategy in some way. Remember one of the basics of LOA is teachability. There comes a point in one's life practice where they realize the stuff they want isn't really what they want. And it goes back to what I've argued with you before about, which is that I believe evolution aligns with what we consider to be good, moral qualities. While unlimited variations are possible, some tactics tend to beat others, but it's not easily readable which those are and sometimes it appears as though parasitic methods are best because they find a niche and survive well enough, or even succeed in some manner. But there's something so much greater than personal desires. And when you realize that, the desire for something beyond personal success will burn inside of you to the point it cannot be ignored. You've just had your ethos transformed. Just like how negative thoughts and doubts burn away in the presence of a truly positive attitude that is willing to face them, so do parasitic methods of existence burn away before the power of a unified humanity. They will continue to operate in any way possible, and the war is eternal between light and shadow, but the power of selflessness becomes too inviting to ignore when you find your place within something bigger than yourself. Sometimes this feeling becomes damaging as well, as millions flock to violent religions and cling to nationalism. But that is a divisive force and still less powerful than a unified humanity. Celebrating differences makes you stronger.

**shadowofwind** · 07-20-2012 06:07 AM

Too many pronouns and I'm getting confused.

My observation has been that psychic power is intoxicating, and that people who get more of it tend to morally self destruct after a few decades. Hence my emphasis on honesty over confidence.

I guess we've both said what we wanted to.

If we talk again its a sure thing the moral/evolution issue will come up again though. Its central to what distinguishes your intuition from mine. As I see it, evolution can lead to heights in civilization and paranormal power, but in the end it falls down again, and later universes are like this one again, in cycles. My vision is to take it in a different direction, by willing in a way that is not compelled by evolution, so that as this reality runs its course we can create the seed for a better one. Maybe the existing cycle is OK to you. Its no longer OK with me, and I will continue working to change the whole cycle until I discover that its impossible. Evidence so far seems to be encouraging.

**hermine_hesse** · 07-20-2012 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Sageous

One thing I am concerned about your reaction to me that I forgot to mention before when others noted it: I don't know how I projected the idea (probably my ugly cynical writing form), but I am also a very big fan of hope. It's one of the things that makes us human, after all, and hope is often the one virtue, when held tight, that not only provides the strength and patience needed during the long (oft eternal) wait for "manifestation," but also it is the strongest rope we can grasp when we need to pull ourselves out of really bad times. No, I don't lack hope, or dismiss it. I especially don't abandon it, as that would be a hellish choice indeed! I guess I just don't like seeing it presented as a tool for getting something for nothing, though. That's simply wrong, on many levels.

No, I don't think your more positive view of hope came through in your replies, but I understand why. Manifestation without action ("getting something for nothing") seems to really irk you, and I think this is a justifiable position. Although, I do agree with Omnis Dei that manifestation without any action is possible if the desire is strong enough, I see how this could be misleading and possibly harmful to many people who don't have a full understanding of manifestation, are perhaps seeking to manifest the wrong things, or worse someone thinks they can simply use LOA with minimal effort and all their hopes and dreams will come true. There doesn't seem to be anyone else sensible and open minded presenting this viewpoint on DV, from what I've seen, so I can understand why you might come off a little strong more cynical than your actual feelings on this subject. (please correct me if I'm wrong here)

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

See, we have extremely limited radar, but we tend to assume it covers the whole map. So we think, "You cannot get a job without applying for it." or worse, yet more likely, you cannot get a certain job even if you applied because you have no experience. These are the thoughts that come to mind when we consider our dream job, and we believe that we need to figure out a plan to accomplish that goal, given the parameters of our extremely limited radar.

I agree. There have been several times in my life when a new job opportunity literally just fell in my lap and changed the course of my life. Once I met a friend of a friend at a bar, and completely drunk convinced her to hire me, although I had zero experience. The next day I showed up for what I thought was an interview, but she had already given me the job and was bringing me in to fill new hire paperwork. Within a few months I received two promotions; within six months the company was paying for me to move from Florida to California and open a new store. I can't imagine how different my life would be and what amazing experiences I would be without had I not been open to that opportunity that night at the bar.

However, I think what you're getting at here is less about not acting and more about an openness to new opportunities that may present themselves in novel and unexpected ways. During the time before this job presented itself, I was networking and applying to jobs, but I was also open to unexpected opportunities. I think it is a good practice to work hard and be proactive to achieve what you want, while at the same time being ready for a manifestation outside your realm of influence.

**Original Poster** · 07-20-2012 07:50 AM

I really like the different opinions being represented here. This is a good talk on multiple levels from many different vantages points so we can get to the heart of the matter. The power of LOA feels elusive, almost. I've heard when you chase the world, it runs from you, when you run from the world, it chases you. When you allow it, it allows you. I agree that humanity goes up and down in cycles. As a whole nature cannot be intelligently designed. It thrives most off chaos, random variation with one type of selection, whether or not that idea can fit in the room. This doesn't mean we can't designate our own ethos as a people. But I don't do it because I'm clever on objective morals, I do it because I'm wise on what the viable method really is. I believe the most viable method for me is what gives me the greatest possible feeling of happiness because we're structured to seek happiness. I believe all evil is evil because it makes you feel bad, at the end of the day, and we as a culture wouldn't teach the same morals if they weren't trying to tell us about long-term success rather than short term. We can always try harder next time, that's no problem. But the cycles are continuing so we can try better. Because things change so drastically, each and every time is an attempt to try better.

**Sageous** · 07-20-2012 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

No, I don't think your more positive view of hope came through in your replies, but I understand why. Manifestation without action ("getting something for nothing") seems to really irk you, and I think this is a justifiable position. Although, I do agree with Omnis Dei that manifestation without any action is possible if the desire is strong enough, I see how this could be misleading and possibly harmful to many people who don't have a full understanding of manifestation, are perhaps seeking to manifest the wrong things, or worse someone thinks they can simply use LOA with minimal effort and all their hopes and dreams will come true. There doesn't seem to be anyone else sensible and open minded presenting this viewpoint on DV, from what I've seen, so I can understand why you might come off a little strong more cynical than your actual feelings on this subject. (please correct me if I'm wrong here)

Once again, you pegged me exactly Hermine ... I was "irked," and feeling a bit alone in my thoughts, and hadn't really noticed either emotion! Have we met?

**juroara** · 07-21-2012 01:29 AM

I don't see it as getting "something for nothing". The LOA only talks about attracting events into your life. What you do with them is whats important. A great opportunity can come to you, but if you aren't ready you shy away from it.

The "work" in the LOA is purely inner work. Self discovery, healing, accepting and all that.

**Sageous** · 07-21-2012 01:59 AM

^^ I sure can't argue with any of that, Juroara!

**shadowofwind** · 07-21-2012 02:18 AM

We've argued about the 'something for nothing' thoughts before. In a way everything we get is for nothing. The sun shines. Plants collect the energy. We eat the plants. Its all 'free'. I think that the 'figs don't grow on thistles' analogy might be a little better. People want goods and services, so someone has to create that stuff.

**Original Poster** · 07-23-2012 01:51 AM

I simply want to love my work, not escape it entirely. I want to escape tedious wastes of time and parasites. I want to be free to do what I love to do without giving someone else most of the spoils.

**shadowofwind** · 07-23-2012 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Original Poster

I simply want to love my work, not escape it entirely. I want to escape tedious wastes of time and parasites. I want to be free to do what I love to do without giving someone else most of the spoils.

In my experience, young people have that thought. Then after a few jobs they give it up, or go into denial, and/or hope that by making the best of the boring, parasite laden jobs that are available, the next generation will have a chance at work happiness. I know that sounds negative, but hunting/scavenging isn't a bed of roses as it is, and now most of us still have our hunter/scavenger instincts but are trapped all day in little fabric boxes. Though its better for many people depending on their personalities, there's an almost thermodynamic tendency for work misery to spread out evenly, because people flock to the 'good' jobs which drives the wages down and gives the people who gain control of access to those jobs more leverage be more abusive.

I agree its a good thought though.

Charming picture.

**Original Poster** · 07-23-2012 07:33 AM

I know, I've watched myself get distracted and forget what I really want. It's easy to lose sight of your dreams or to succumb to doubt and hide away from them. I am hoping to avoid letting this happen again.

**hermine_hesse** · 07-23-2012 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Original Poster

I simply want to love my work, not escape it entirely. I want to escape tedious wastes of time and parasites. I want to be free to do what I love to do without giving someone else most of the spoils.

I still feel this way, too, but I'm also still discovering what it is I love to do. I had a turning point this year, when I turned down a job with a really great salary, but knew I would be doing something I didn't enjoy, and working long hours where I might not be able to even enjoy leisure time in the beautiful, new city I had just moved to.

**juroara** · 07-24-2012 05:16 PM

oh job love? blah, im past that

Its a lie that theres supposed to be some magical job out there im supposed to love doing the rest of my life, as if. Screw all jobs. The only thing I love doing is being myself.

**Original Poster** · 07-25-2012 09:56 PM

I believe if you have the right attitude you can find a way to feed yourself that does not require you ever feel leeched, bored or worn out. That doesn't necessarily mean you'll find a job that escapes these qualities, it means your attitude will be incapable of becoming bored or worn out because of an intense love for life.

I'm starting at the Human Society on monday and it's a bitch of a job. Lot's of poop cleaning, bad smells, angry dogs, etc. But I already love some of those dogs, too. And my wage comes from a non-profit, I'm not being leeched to make anyone rich, my job is being funded to help alleviate suffering. It's a part time job which is fine by me. A large salary was never a major desire of mine. I've dreamed of having Capital, sure, but not money. The difference being that I've often dreamed of all the humanitarian projects I would go for if I could fund them, but I never envisioned myself needing to afford more than a modest home and two vacations a year. Possessions are of little interest to me. For me, a part time job alleviating suffering is ideal. It gives me time. Whether I spend that time enjoying myself being a young jackass or churning out art is my business because I can feed myself so there's not pressure to be an artist but I have the availability to do so. And this is also ideal, the suffering is removed from my art and I'm free to create, to churn out pages and pages when my muse strikes especially hard, or simply write a poem while sitting on the corner outside the cafe, enjoying the weather and chatting up the occasional friend that passes by.

I couldn't ask for a better life. There are a few dreams left unfulfilled: I want to love myself even harder than I do now, I want to love another person just as hard as I envision loving myself (and vice versa), I want to publish a book series, I want to be able to record music in my basement (possession related, I know), I want to travel to a different place or country every year, go to burning man every year, go backpacking every year, I want to set the framework in my valley so it could switch over to a self-sustainable community free of monetary and oil dependency, I want to have a child and watch him/her grow up into a greater badass than I could possibly imagine, and there's several other things on top of that.

Right now the life I live is very enjoyable, but it's still easy for me to conclude it's not complete. This conclusion causes me, no matter how happy I feel right now, to resist the present moment in some way. I'm not there yet, therefore I carry the attitude that I can't have total peace yet. This is where I combine buddhism with LOA. This is the precise place where the bridge is built, with the simple question, "Why wait for uncertainties to become certainties in order to be completely happy?" Time changes all things (impermanence). Some of these things will get better (my success) and some will get worse (my youth). Even when I do accomplish all my dreams, I'll be older, generally in more pain and past the point of being able to enjoy my youth as well as I can right now. So time is a trade, and time might heal all wounds but it does not fix any desire.

I don't know if what I want, I will accomplish, but the Buddha does not truly tell you that desire causes suffering. He taught attachment causes suffering. I live as though I have already accomplished all my dreams because I can't truly say whether I will accomplish them or not. But I live like I will. I live like I am at one stage of a blooming flower. Blooming is encoded in its DNA. It might get cut short of this destiny, but why worry about such uncertainties? It's job is to follow its DNA. Nothing more. My "blooming" is to see all the dreams I envision manifest. But I can't say that the bloom is better than the life of the flower before it bloomed. Each stage is as precious and sacred as the next. I know I'll bloom. I mean anything could happen to stop me, my flower could be cut down at any moment. But because blooming is encoded in my DNA, I am essentially already bloomed.

To speak more practically, in my ideal attitude (some days I align closer to it than others) I have already accomplished everything I want, I simply haven't unwrapped the presents yet. This attitude is ideal not because of LOA and because it will make these presents actually come into my life even though I have no evidence that they will. That's not the point. The point is thinking my life is incomplete causes me to surrender a piece of happiness to the future, to a time where I'll have to trade more youth, more things I can be grateful of having now, for that success. By keeping the attitude that I already have everything I want, I am free to enjoy the present moment to the fullest. By believing in LOA, I save myself from discouragement that I don't deserve to be happy until I actually work to accomplish those things, because it enables me to believe that the greatest work I can do is to maintain the attitude that I already have them.

“Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.” Marcus Aurelius

**shadowofwind** · 07-26-2012 01:58 AM

I agree that its good to be able to accept ambiguity, rather than trying to harden everything into facts. And its true that living in the future would mean not being as aware in the present, and the imagined future is never real anyway. Both of those things are different though from telling yourself that you have what you want. Maybe telling yourself that makes the other things easier, and maybe you regard it as a net gain for you personally, but it also comes with a not insignificant penalty, which is what I was trying to say earlier.

I was content for many years earning less than $15K a year. Now I have children, which was to at least some extent fated. But I can't support them on $15K per year, and I have little savings from the previous years, so I can't live where they live because I can't afford a house in a decent school district where I can find better work. (I had higher paying drone warfare related work for a few years where they are, but it involved murdering people by proxy, and at some point I couldn't go any further with that.) So they're growing up without a dad except on holidays. Had I been less content earlier, I might be able to be a lot better parent now. Discontent is a kind of pain. Sometimes it can be unhelpful, but sometimes it is there to tell you that what you're doing isn't working out well for the long term.

In any case, I wish you well with the dog care gig. I love dogs, and hope to be able to have one again some day.

**Sageous** · 07-26-2012 02:53 AM

^^ That is a very important point, Shadowofwind, and one that might fly in the face of the whole LOA/manifestation deal ... After all, you're living as well as you can, no doubt with clear desires now that you have kids, and you did the right thing by stepping away from drone work ... Yet there you are, obliged to be separated from your family. Should that be?

Is LOA perhaps not time-sensitive, and your time of fulfilled desire will come, eventually? Or is it that you truly must add something to the formula, and simply wait for that time while paying your dues?

I'm not being facetious; I truly believe you've noted an important facet to the "manifestation" of this theory, and I'm curious about how LOA deals with it...

**shadowofwind** · 07-26-2012 03:03 AM

Sageous,

As I suggested earlier, I think part of my misfortune is the collective misfortune of humanity, I can't completely separate my fate from everyone else's. I accept that. Another way of saying this, though I don't know if it sounds the same, is that fate is fucking me over on purpose because this is the only effective way to communicate that there's a real, cosmic size problem that needs addressed, that I can't just go off into my own little "I've got mine" corner with my family and let the collective soul rot. I accept that too. Of course in another way I don't accept it, but that not accepting is another way of saying yes I get the message, and am committed to what it implies. Of course the way in which I respond my be inept, ineffective, and largely delusional, but I will nevertheless respond the best I can.

**Sageous** · 07-26-2012 04:23 AM

^^ So if I understand you correctly, manifestation has a sort of "Big Picture" corollary attached to it? That actually makes a lot of sense to me.

... and please forgive if we've already had this conversation here. (if we haven't, though, I hope Omnis is still following; I'd love to get his take as well...)

**shadowofwind** · 07-26-2012 05:23 AM

Sageous,

This is basically the same confusion I have with a lot of things. For example, I have malice, I enjoy hurting people. That isn't all I am of course, but its definitely in there. I would like to change it, because I do care about people also. Yet, other people have malice too, and I can't change them. And other people are a part of me, I'm sure of this, I feel it and that's how all this shared thought stuff works. In some significant sense my malice is their malice. So in what sense can I change myself if I can't change them? I think that most if not all other people have this problem too, even if their way of thinking about identity doesn't reveal it as a problem. There's a failure of metaphor here. If I had an adequate appreciation of what kind of thing identity is, then there would be no problem. There would still be limitations I think, but without the counterproductive effort that follows from the confusion.

[Part of the answer here is that malice isn't a substance, its love expressed through or qualified by a kind of physical condition. But this physical condition is to a significant extent shared also, for example our genome, like I mentioned in the 'using dream' thread.]

**Original Poster** · 07-26-2012 09:10 PM

I think it's important I distinguish between pretending you have something already, and setting your attitude to having it. There's a difference between having the attitude that it's a certainty vs acting as if it's already there. I have the attitude that I will have money to support myself, but I don't go out buying everything I can't currently afford.

Essentially you end up removing the blockages between you and actions that would actually be conducive to obtaining what you want. They feel like play, rather than work, because you have no doubt in the outcome. And I'm sure you realize but we perform much better when we're at play rather than when we attach particular significance. At least I always have.

I'm perfectly content and it's difficult to explain why. I'm both content that all my desires will manifest, but also with knowledge that they don't actually have to manifest at all. This puts me in the best position to manifest them. I can only be content with my pursuit of them, and doubt appears to be little more than an obstacle I would prefer not to deal with. I used doubt to discover what I want, and as I experience life from time to time I'll come back to doubt. Doubt has also enabled me to work on proper LOA technique as my original attempts to blind myself from bad feelings and just smile all the time fell way to a much more powerful technique, absolving bad feelings through impartial witnessing of them. Doubt enables me to figure out the best action I can think of, but once I have the action, doubt becomes little more than an inhibitor. The purpose of doubt is to refine the practice, not stop it completely. While intellectually I understand that the future is uncertain, I'm a magician. We play with our beliefs because we understand that our beliefs create the world. I suppose another term for this would be idealist, only it's free of expectation. Or at least the expectations are free of attachment.

For instance I have a girl I'm in love with. How do I deal with this ridiculously painful desire, this world I've entered full of dramatic levels of doubt? I don't pretend and act as though we're already together. What is needed is an attitude adjustment, I carry the attitude that allows me to love her free from suffering over the details of the situation. That's all LOA comes down to, to me, carrying the attitude that alleviates suffering the most, understanding that a positive attitude will also alleviate problems the best. But it's important to remember what your dreams are and retain focus on them, too. I want children, too, so 15k a year for me won't do it. I'm simply waiting to have kids until after I have another source of income.

**ILLUMINUS** · 09-21-2012 01:07 AM

Hey'''' You sound like a Kevin Trudeau man''''
Your post is a nice synthesized version of Your wish is your command'
I printed out your stuff and read it in the morning after meditation.Then listen
to Kevins CD,s in the Car' I think the best info on L.O.A comes from the society,s
Those guys know what there talking about'

**ILLUMINUS** · 09-21-2012 01:12 AM

Hey'''' You sound like a Kevin Trudeau man''''
Your post is a nice synthesized version of Your wish is your command'
I printed out your stuff and read it in the morning after meditation.Then listen
to Kevins CD,s in the Car' I think the best info on L.O.A comes from the society,s
Those guys know what there talking about'