Thread: Telekinesis

Originally Posted by snoop

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said I wouldn't believe a video, I was saying that a video doesn't exactly qualify as credible evidence; however, it's better than nothing. Not to mention the OP (not you, the actual original poster) said he'd post a video if he got it to work, and he still hasn't. Given the subject has been brought back up to him more than once to post the video, the only logical reason I can see for avoiding doing so is because he can't actually do it under controlled conditions.

I never said I would post a video when I got it to work. I just said that I would post one. I have succeeded. I have no doubt that I have succeeded. I am not consistent though.

Even if I place my hands directly under the wheel, it won't spin from convection. What I've done cannot be explained by known physics.

Yeah it's a bitch at first. I've been practicing for around 10 months now (off and on) and I'm still struggling.

Originally Posted by 123north123

I never said I would post a video when I got it to work. I just said that I would post one. I have succeeded. I have no doubt that I have succeeded. I am not consistent though.

Even if I place my hands directly under the wheel, it won't spin from convection. What I've done cannot be explained by known physics.

If I were you, I'd dedicate all my time to this, so that I could become consistent, and then go claim my million dollar prize. If you really believe yourself, when you say that known physics can't explain what you're doing, then that money is yours.

Originally Posted by 123north123

I never said I would post a video when I got it to work. I just said that I would post one. I have succeeded. I have no doubt that I have succeeded. I am not consistent though.

Even if I place my hands directly under the wheel, it won't spin from convection. What I've done cannot be explained by known physics.

Uh...

Originally Posted by 123north123

I will try to make a video soon.

Normally when someone says they will make a video, they mean they will produce one themselves. You didn't say that you would post just anyone's video, you said you would make one. Where is it? Even if you can't consistently get it to work, you could always film yourself for a long enough time until it does. These types of claims always annoy the fuck out of me because when anyone asks you to prove it under controlled conditions, you either come up with some excuse not to (something along the lines of "oh, I can't do it with people or cameras around it ruins my concentration" or some other bullshit), ignore the request altogether, or setup a terribly flawed experiment to prove its validity and act as if you have indisputably proven it to be true.

Sigh people... what about leaving this post? If you hate it so much, open a post named "f**k telekinesis!"... I expected more people to share their experiences instead of saying how stupid this is. And the video... if somebody manages to succeed, do you really think they are interested in you so much to record it for you? They COULD after a time for sure, maybe even I could after a while (a long...while), we just don't care. It's like proving lucid dreaming (yea, dream example again), it's just there, if you want to see it working vids up or you can learn it, many websites there, you want to see it not us. Even if anyone would upload a video, you'd say it's fake... So... just please leave this post if you got nothing positive to add.

Originally Posted by 006

Sigh people... what about leaving this post? 1)If you hate it so much, open a post named "f**k telekinesis!"... I expected more people to share their experiences instead of 2) saying how stupid this is. And the video... 3) if somebody manages to succeed, do you really think they are interested in you so much to record it for you? They COULD after a time for sure, maybe even I could after a while (a long...while), we just don't care.

1)I never said I hated it, and neither did most everyone else.

2)I never said I thought it was stupid, and neither did most everyone else. We asked for some kind of proof, is that really such a bad thing? How does that constitute hate? How does that mean we think it's stupid? You are obviously insecure with your ability to actually perform telekinesis or you wouldn't draw such blown up, out of proportion implications from a simple request for proof.

3) You'd think they would be; if you could do something amazing like move things with only your mind, I figure you'd probably like to share it. Hell, not just share it, but prove it. And if you all don't care, then why was this thread created in the first place? It's clear that you guys do care.

Originally Posted by snoop

1)I never said I hated it, and neither did most everyone else.

2)I never said I thought it was stupid, and neither did most everyone else. We asked for some kind of proof, is that really such a bad thing? How does that constitute hate? How does that mean we think it's stupid? You are obviously insecure with your ability to actually perform telekinesis or you wouldn't draw such blown up, out of proportion implications from a simple request for proof.

3) You'd think they would be; if you could do something amazing like move things with only your mind, I figure you'd probably like to share it. Hell, not just share it, but prove it. And if you all don't care, then why was this thread created in the first place? It's clear that you guys do care.

It's created to share experiences, and help each other with performing it. Not to listen to how others want proof. And actually if you read back there were people who think it's not existing and that it's stupid, with not using the word stupid, but it's still obvious. Actually I don't think any proof would do for you. If you really want some proof, search it up, there are websites, plenty, and videos as well, you will surely find if you look for it. And to share it? Techniques and what helps to do it. Not from the very beginning reasoning about it's existence. Want some share? It's shared in many websites, look it up. As it seems like you guys rather argue than simply suing google, here you go, this is one of those I read: Wingmaker Abilities

Despite my efforts it still appears as though skeptics are unwilling to understand just how unimpressive telekinesis is. Being able to make something wiggle after several minutes of concentration is not worth a million dollars, Marvo. And it's not something that will prove the phenomenon, snoop. I have already gone out of my way to show you how easy it is to fake the phenomenon, to the point where it's practically impossible to distinguish authentic qi manipulation from a hoax when it takes place via video.

The potential goes well beyond telekinesis. Learning to manipulate your qi is the basis of tai chi, and with proper training it can give combative advantage to a weak old man even when facing a massive opponent. Have you ever seen a tai chi master at work, or some other master of qi manipulation? Now that's impressive. Psi wheels are for the students to practice so they can eventually reach that point.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Despite my efforts it still appears as though skeptics are unwilling to understand just how unimpressive telekinesis is. Being able to make something wiggle after several minutes of concentration is not worth a million dollars, Marvo. And it's not something that will prove the phenomenon, snoop. I have already gone out of my way to show you how easy it is to fake the phenomenon, to the point where it's practically impossible to distinguish authentic qi manipulation from a hoax when it takes place via video.

The potential goes well beyond telekinesis. Learning to manipulate your qi is the basis of tai chi, and with proper training it can give combative advantage to a weak old man even when facing a massive opponent. Have you ever seen a tai chi master at work, or some other master of qi manipulation? Now that's impressive. Psi wheels are for the students to practice so they can eventually reach that point.

If you can actually make something move, without physically interacting with it, then you are doing something that science says you can't, and people are legitimately willing to pay you for doing that. Personally, I'd get on the first plane in the morning and get my money.

Science does not say you can't move things with your mind. The phenomenon simply has not been validated to the majority of the scientific community. You throw the word science around like a religious zealot claiming God hates abortion. That's bad practice.

And please, name someone who will pay a million dollars for an authentic display of telekinesis. I've seen multiple people capable of manipulating qi in far more impressive ways than I can, and they would love to know. Granted, I wouldn't personally consider trying to prove qi manipulation to someone who is offering a million dollars because they are most certainly going to move the goal posts the second I succeed at anything. Nothing I do would end up being enough for the million dollars, and I'd walk away empty handed. An illusionist would be far more capable of earning that money as their tricks would be far more impressive, consistent and difficult to scrutinize. Masters capable of performing phenomenal feats of qi manipulation are not so incredibly rare and if there were really millions of dollars being handed out for the activity then I'm confused as to why none of them have earned this money yet. Or perhaps some of them have, I just haven't heard of it.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Science does not say you can't move things with your mind. The phenomenon simply has not been validated to the majority of the scientific community. You throw the word science around like a religious zealot claiming God hates abortion. That's bad practice.

No you see, I'm using a higher level of science, that psionic underlings like you can't access. You see how this "I'm above you because I know the secret science!" play is completely and utterly retarded?

And please, name someone who will pay a million dollars for an authentic display of telekinesis. I've seen multiple people capable of manipulating qi in far more impressive ways than I can, and they would love to know. Granted, I wouldn't personally consider trying to prove qi manipulation to someone who is offering a million dollars because they are most certainly going to move the goal posts the second I succeed at anything. Nothing I do would end up being enough for the million dollars, and I'd walk away empty handed. An illusionist would be far more capable of earning that money as their tricks would be far more impressive, consistent and difficult to scrutinize. Masters capable of performing phenomenal feats of qi manipulation are not so incredibly rare and if there were really millions of dollars being handed out for the activity then I'm confused as to why none of them have earned this money yet. Or perhaps some of them have, I just haven't heard of it.

Challenge Info

Go get 'em girl.

Originally Posted by Marvo

No you see, I'm using a higher level of science, that psionic underlings like you can't access. You see how this "I'm above you because I know the secret science!" is completely and utterly retarded?

Dude, you're acting like science has opinions of its own. You're nothing but a dogmatist and your attitude is insulting to true skepticism.

Challenge Info

Go get 'em girl.

I doubt there's any point in me trying to convince these people if no one has passed a preliminary test. I've seen 6'5" marines get thrown halfway across a room by feeble old men. If they can't prove to these people that qi manipulation exists, I highly doubt I stand a chance. Like I said, it sounds they're goal-post movers. Nothing I do would satisfy them.

You act as if science is static. Science is always changing; it's a work in progress. A true scientist is skeptical but open to possibilities. People that reject new ideas because they don't fit into their picture of the universe are a hindrance to progress.

Take a moment to read the page. You both agree on a protocol, a set of rules, under which you can perform. Once you both agree, the contract can be sealed, and the test can begin. At this point, they can't move goal posts any more. Unless they have telekinesis.

Dude, you're acting like science has opinions of its own. You're nothing but a dogmatist and your attitude is insulting to true skepticism.

No no no no no no, listen here, I subscribe to a science, where we have knowledge of several core forces of the world, forces that we have build massive machines to measure and detect, utilizing the smallest of particles in doing so. We build all of this knowledge, not on the basis of what we want to be true, but on what appears to be true. The majority of scientists are interested in discovering what the world has to offer, and explaining what it has to offer, and they place mutual trust in each other, such that only a small percentage of scientists actually lie and cheat, in order to serve their own false agenda. Science can not be split into individual parts, and then work independently. Everything is connected, because that's how our world works, and the fact that science keeps coughing up results that are consistent with previous findings, proves that this is true.
If you really want to dance around this issue, and somehow lay the discussion on me, rather than your absurd claim, that humans - who from an evolutionary standpoint have not changed much over the last tens of thousands of years - can move objects with an invisible and apparently completely undetectable and unpredictable force, then fine. It only proves further to me, that your constant stream of claims of the supernatural, are either fabrications (why though?) or your feeble mind trying to ascend beyond traditional human life, because it's simply too much for you (see: your "chores suck :'(" thread), so you lie to yourself, convincing yourself that magic is real.

Originally Posted by 123north123

You act as if science is static. Science is always changing; it's a work in progress. A true scientist is skeptical but open to possibilities. People that reject new ideas because they don't fit into their picture of the universe are a hindrance to progress.

You really don't get it, do you? Xei and I will accept your claims of the supernatural with open arms, if you can actually bring about a shred of evidence, testable conditions, or basically anything that proves anything you say is true. We are atheists, not because we don't want to believe in a god, but because we see zero reason to. Similarly, we see zero reason to believe in telekinesis, because we see zero evidence, and science only continues to debunk existing supposed evidence.

Regardless of whether there's a cash prize or not - you'd think most of these spiritual types would feel some kind of obligation to spread their wisdom as far as possible. Providing good empirical evidence is the only way to do this, so they should be eager to do so.

Originally Posted by 123north123

You act as if science is static. Science is always changing; it's a work in progress. A true scientist is skeptical but open to possibilities. People that reject new ideas because they don't fit into their picture of the universe are a hindrance to progress.

Have you any idea how clichéd this is?

A true scientist doesn't have a positive belief in something for which there is no reliable experimental evidence.

There's a big difference between denying something as ever being possible, and simply not believing it's true. Stop conflating the two; if you're not doing it on purpose then that's some really sloppy thinking. It's perfectly plausible that there is a teapot orbiting the sun, too - it's not logically impossible. That still makes you nuts to give any credence to somebody who does claim that there is a teapot orbiting the sun without providing any good evidence that would suggest it.

For starters, there is actually quite a bit of lying and cheating in scientific studies (see: Science of Doubt) due to the fact that so many studies are funded by corporate interests looking for very specific results (experiments regarding tobacco's link to lung cancer, CO2 emission's link to global warming and cell phones' link to cancer have all been fabricated in favor of the industries).

Moving on, you're making quite a few assumptions on how telekinesis works. You're claiming it's undetectable simply because people do not know how to detect it. You also seem to imply if telekinesis does exist it's a recent evolution in humanity even though qi as a concept has existed for thousands of years.

Frankly, I understand your opinion. You don't have evidence, yourself, of anything, so you have no reason to believe in anything. I'll admit, though, I take issue with your sophist attitude regarding reality. But that's something you will have to change with experience, and I can't simply convince you that reality is more complex than what you currently think it is. What you think of reality is of no concern to me, as you've already revealed that your intention is not to mutually share ideas but rather be right about everything. Your sophomoric attitude will change eventually though, perhaps once you read some Camus or Proust or something, I don't know. I do find it interesting that you equate my own honesty regarding basic resistance to work (which I think everyone goes through) with some need for life to be more mysterious than it is. It appears as though you've drawn two false conclusions, the first being that simply because I attempted to describe the feeling of resistance to work therefore I don't do any work (truth being that I simply pondered the feeling once in a fit of procrastination) and the second being that I need life to be more meaningful than it is. I enjoy this stuff, I don't need any of it. It gets my rocks off to do the research. It is neither necessary that I find something nor certain that I won't. And that's what I love about it. You should try keeping an open mind some time, I find the experience of living to be more fun to sit in wonder rather than assume the universe is already figured out.

But let me ask you a question, how do flocks of birds navigate together in such a well coordinated manner? It's been said that when we discover flight patterns by migrating birds we will have understood a new facet of physics. Yet you act like all the mysteries have already been solved.

Why don't the people presenting this challenge attempt to find a tai chi master like the one I've described? I've met one personally, and have heard rumor of several other masters of various arts who were capable of the same phenomenon. The friend who originally showed me he could rotate psi wheels (though he didn't use a psi wheel, he used a straw tied to a string and hanging from the ceiling, parallel to the floor) was trained, along with several other students, by his own master. Another friend of mine, a sturdy 6'3" individual, reported first hand his experience of being thrown across the room by a little old man who did not physically possess the strength to do so. That's real qi manipulation, right there. It seems like a paranormal investigation team would not have a difficult time finding and testing one of these people, but as long as they just issue a challenge they can save themselves that sort of work and still pretend they're right.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Despite my efforts it still appears as though skeptics are unwilling to understand just how unimpressive telekinesis is. Being able to make something wiggle after several minutes of concentration is not worth a million dollars

Are you serious? That is one hell of a bold statement to make. If telekinesis were real it would be the biggest discovery known to the history of man. Telekinesis could be used in virtually every industry, moving something from a distance without any apparent link would absolutely change everypart of life and would require and overhaul of almost our entire knowledge of physics. How you could possibly find this unimpressive baffles me.

Hollywood has exaggerated your preconception of telekinesis.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Hollywood has exaggerated your preconception of telekinesis.

Ahh please enlighten me as to how you know what is actually physically going on when you are using telekinesis.

-_- Qi follows intention. Through work, one can use their intentions to extend their qi from their bodies cause a small stream of energy to manipulate objects. This requires a great deal of focus and years of training. It would be extremely inefficient to use qi to replace more practical methods of industry. One cannot simply use it to open the fridge and grab a beer. It may be possible, but I've never seen anyone capable of it despite dedicating their entire lives to qi manipulation. Even if it were possible, it would take ten times more work than simply getting up and grabbing the beer yourself.

Now teleportation, that would be cool.

Sorry to dissapoint - Psi Wheels Explained Psi Wheel revealed!! - YouTube

And this one is relly fun as well, but it might not be telekinesis, but just an example of how easily we can be fooled on Youtube:

The Floating Cork - YouTube

I once tried to do these kind of things myself, and one day I sat and looked at my door and thought "Open!" and I see the door open up!
I was home alone, no wind passing by, and it was perfectly timed. However this started to repeat itself without me even looking at the door.
So my house is probably haunted instead. Hehe or not

But hey just remember one thing while you try to bend spoons etc. There is no spoon

That video doesn't prove anything. It only shows one way PK can be faked.

Yeah, I've seen that video. It explains one very common way the phenomenon is faked. If you'll noticed, I posted a video which shows several other ways it can be faked.

Succeeding at making a fake does not prove a lack of authenticity. It only proves that videos cannot serve as evidence. We've already discussed this thoroughly.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

-_-

Stopped reading here, great thread fellows.