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    1. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by TiredPhil View Post
      Watch 'PATCH ADAMS' movie, with Robin Williams.
      It shows what a change in a persons mood does toward helping medical care.
      Not just the patients body is treated, but the mind as well.

      Being hopefull/happy/joyfull, releases good stuff into your bloodstream. ( No technical names, or I will get booted in the head )

      So, to remain nuetral
      Both points to this arguement are valid.
      But both arguements, are just that " ARGUEMENTS "
      Both sides should try to convince the other of their point of view in a positive manner.
      An agressive approach will never progress anywhere, except into further anger/rage.
      This will leave each person with a little less respect for others. Not just the person they are having the arguement with.


      I should have been born in the 50s, and I could have been a peace protester.
      I like that movie.
      Here is what I posted here yesterday, it was posts #25 and post #26 here yesterday but it is gone. I just stuck it here now:

      http://www.dreamviews.com/lounge/140...ml#post2003729

    2. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by debrajane View Post
      Here is what I posted here yesterday, it was posts #25 and post #26 here yesterday but it is gone.
      Yes, those posts were deleted, as they continued in the argument (nicely, I must add), but they are off topic.

      Topic is to post your personal experience with crystal therapy.

    3. #28
      Member blackbirdrising's Avatar
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      It's been 26 years since I began chakra cleansing in a "traditional" sense (traditional to energy healers). . I think my first introduction to them was through my aunt, who wore certain minerals and gemstones to increase her circulation and help with blood sugar control and digestion (she is Type 1 Diabetic). I didn't think much of it when back in the 1970's, when I was very young. I wanted to see immediate results, and I wanted to see her be cured of her disease and not have to take insulin shots, but then again I was only a child at the time and didn't see the big picture. She explained to me how she used crystals along side her mainstream medication and that they served, not to cure her but, to assist her in her own self healing....sort of like "body maintenance". It took me years to fully understand what she meant by that. Over time, starting in 1987, I collected crystals (most of them mega-crystalline), and then started working with them to help myself. Later, for others, always keeping written records of every situation, so I could look back on them later and learn from the experience.

    4. #29
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      Here's the thing about crystal therapy.
      Tell someone it works, and they believe you - It will work in a very high percentage of people.
      Tell someone a pill works ( Placibo ) and you get exactly the same results.

      Now here is something you may not know.

      Tell someone you are giving them a Placibo, then give them their sugar pill. It still works, if you tell them it will.
      Tell someone you are treating them with rare crystals, but use plastic toys, and it all still works.
      Tell someone whatever you will, If they believe it works, it will.

      Now on to the opposit effect. NOCEBO EFFECT
      Tell a child that they will never amount to anything, and this can happen.
      Say to someone " You look a bit ill today" and they will look,and find symptoms.

      Placibo, and Nocebo are both powerful tools, which are heavily misused in todays society.

      Enough said, I am off for mi dinner

    5. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by TiredPhil View Post
      Here's the thing about crystal therapy.
      Tell someone it works, and they believe you - It will work in a very high percentage of people.
      Tell someone a pill works ( Placibo ) and you get exactly the same results.

      Now here is something you may not know.

      Tell someone you are giving them a Placibo, then give them their sugar pill. It still works, if you tell them it will.
      Tell someone you are treating them with rare crystals, but use plastic toys, and it all still works.
      Tell someone whatever you will, If they believe it works, it will.

      Now on to the opposit effect. NOCEBO EFFECT
      Tell a child that they will never amount to anything, and this can happen.
      Say to someone " You look a bit ill today" and they will look,and find symptoms.

      Placibo, and Nocebo are both powerful tools, which are heavily misused in todays society.

      Enough said, I am off for mi dinner
      Only placebo/nocebo's don't actually 'work' in the sense that you think it does (I'm guessing). And that's precisely why they are used for control measures in medicine research: they are used for looking at the natural course of the disease without any active medical intervention, to see whether the actual medical intervention is in any way different from said natural course (in other words: if it has any effect, if it works).

      And so, we will have to distinguish subjective and objective measures of wellbeing. ESPECIALLY the objective measures: subjectivity is, as the very word tells you, subjective. So whether someone feels any better, doesn't mean they actually are doing any better. And as such, especially with regards to placebo 'medicine': when someone feels better, that does not mean he actually is doing better in an objectively, medical sense.

      In a subjective sense, people do tend to feel better, because they are getting a simulated treatment, even when that treatment is merely sugar pills. And therefore the 'effect' of the placebo may seem large. Especially when it concerns such subjective measures such as pain (which tends to decrease when placebo's are administered, even when they are known to be placebo's).

      However! The fact is that when you go and look at the objective measures (actual increased oxygen intake for asthma medicine placebos, for example), you will see that there is no significant difference from people that do not receive the placebo.

      They may have some improvement in the condition, sure, but again, these improvements are no different from the improvements seen in non-placebo'd non-treated patients, and can be regarded as the natural cycle of the disease.

      Think a flu that just stops after a week or so; whether or not you give people sugar pills, the flu will still stop after a week; is the stopping of the flu, then, to be attributed to the placebo? Or is it simply the natural cycle of the disease?

      See also: MMS: Error for a meta-analysis comparing 130 clinical trials to see whether there is any objective effects in placebo medicine rather than merely subjective improvements.

      Best!

      Tim
      blackbirdrising likes this.

    6. #31
      Lucid Shaman mcwillis's Avatar
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      There is a crystal healing training school near where I live. I have been interested with crystals and their paranormal properties for most of my life. One of my mothers work colleagues had completed a course at the centre and just out of interest I booked myself in for a free consultation in return for lending him some of my rarer occult books. I had no aliments at the time and it was intended for a general health boost.

      I laid down on his floor with arms and legs half outstretched. I could hear and feel him placing several large crystals at various points around my body. He then placed a small crystal upon my ajna chakra (forehead). Finally, he placed what seemed to be a large crystal next to my groin. Immediately upon placing this final crystal I felt an incredibly strong surge of energy flow quickly from my muladhara chakra all the way up my spine. When the eurge of energy reached the back of my skull my diaphragm contracted quite violently expelling a large amount of apana energy and thus emptying my lungs. I went into a very deep unconscious state.

      I awoke some time later as my newly aquired friend began to pick the crystals up. I felt highly invigorated for the next couple of days.

      I would also like to add that the best book I have read on crystal therapy is:

      Gem-Elixirs-and-Vibrational-Healing-9780961587505.jpg

      Please click on the links below, more techniques under investigation to come soon...


    7. #32
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      TimB

      Didn't I just say all that, but with much less typing/reading involved.
      Last edited by TiredPhil; 03-31-2013 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Missed a bit

    8. #33
      Lucid Shaman mcwillis's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Photolysis View Post
      Do you know anything of Chemistry/Physics?

      No, because if you did you would know 'crystal therapy' is utter nonsense, and that the terms thrown about are meaningless bullshit that anyone with the slightest scientific qualification would see through.

      But in any case, this comment will of course have no effect. Though the fact that 'alternative medicine' providers seem to feel they should be exempt from having to learn the significant amounts of background knowledge real doctors have to learn to treat patients is something I've always found amusing. Because you know, all that work people have to do in med school is just for teh lols when any old crackpot can do better.


      Anyway, the door to Inner Sanctum is over there somewhere. You'll find plenty of ignorant crazies who'll agree with you. Have fun.
      Well unlike yourself there are educated doctors, with critical thinking skills, that are content to admit that their orthodox training and understanding of medicine is quite immature compared to their experiences of energy medicine. You can here them speak of this for yourself below.


      Please click on the links below, more techniques under investigation to come soon...


    9. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by TiredPhil View Post
      TimB

      Didn't I just say all that, but with much less typing/reading involved.
      I may have misinterpreted your post, then.

      If you were saying 'it works' (in the sentence 'if you give them a placebo and say it works, it will work', in the sense of 'it doesn't actually work, it just makes people feel like it's doing anything', then sure, you say the same thing as I did, I said the same thing as you did.

      But I didn't feel like you were saying that.

      And so, I wanted to make perfectly, absolutely clear that placebos don't actually 'work' in any measurable, objective way; and the only thing they do is make people feel better, without actually actively changing anything with regards to their ailment.

      Best!

      TimB

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      PS!

      I will have to interject here. About the Emotional Freedom Techniques.
      Apart from the subjective placebo effect, you will have to keep in mind that the majority of EFT out there has a bit of actual, proven, active psychological healthcare involved: namely Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. And so, then the question becomes: is the energy-stuff merely fluff on top of the actual active CBT, or does it have any kind of additional benefits?

      Notice, then, that the energy-stuff is basically shiatsu or acupressure/acupuncture layered on top of the CBT. As such, one will only have to look at whether shiatsu/acupressure/acupuncture has any specific, predictable, measurable, objective, active effect on people in any way (vs subjective), and you will have your answer. If one is in any way intimate with the literature one would have to conclude that, no, there is no measurable objective effect other than a decrease in subjective pain (the afore-mentioned placebo). (FWIW, here's one educated doctor, a neurologist no less, with critical thinking skills, describing the kind of trials they've done, better than I could ever explain: Steven Novella - Acupuncture - YouTube)

      What, then, does this imply for the rest surrounding the energy-stuff? i.e.: is the 'mature' energy-stuff hinging on the actual CBT to have credibility? Does it rely or take advantage on the proven science of CBT so that people will take the rest of the 'mature' energy-stuff in, hook, line and sinker? And isn't that deceptive?

      Best!

      Tim
      Last edited by TimB; 04-01-2013 at 12:40 PM.

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