I will use this thread for media and other references to disclosure.
http://youtu.be/VS3IJmVXkBA
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I will use this thread for media and other references to disclosure.
http://youtu.be/VS3IJmVXkBA
OK, here are some comments that are more "on topic" then....
I've held an above top secret clearance while working in a building which according to what I read on the internet contains alien artifacts. I can say with confidence that the alien conspiracy theories are all promulgated by people who have an unreal Hollywood vision of how US security institutions work. The only 'conspiracy' is careerist and kleptocratic: the US government is not hiding secrets about aliens.
Note that by telling you this I'm not selling any books or speaking engagements, or getting anyone's rapturous attention. The paranoid interpretation of course is that I'm either a clueless dupe, a men-in-black shill, or somebody who arrogantly disbelieves in anything they don't have direct experience with or can't control. All I can say is that I don't think I fit any of those profiles very plausibly for anyone who reads my posting history. But people will decide for themselves of course.
From what I've seen, the reason nobody can produce solid evidence of alien existence is not because they're not real, but because they're a phenomena that doesn't fit the 'visitors in spaceships' interpretation very well. In another age they would appear as demigods, demons, or gnomes. Even now, ostensible encounters with aliens typically involve elements which don't fit the 'alien visitor' thought, though those details are typically omitted by the time the stories make it to YouTube or the paranormal bookshelf.
From my observation and experience, its also clear that obsession with aliens is psychologically unhealthy. It substitutes for facing other more difficult life problems. If you had a job you liked, and good family relationships, and weren't a pawn in the pursuit of more powerful people's desires, you wouldn't care about aliens in anything like the same kind of way. Anyone who wants to understand alien phenomena has to look at this side of the picture objectively, there isn't any other way. Far from being "off topic", its more directly on topic than anything else that can be said.
I sort of disagree with Caurosoul in the sense that I think a person has to keep pursuing the alien issue as long as it seems to matter to them. A person can't just stop and pretend to care about other things that they don't care about. But if a person can see what the alien conspiracy paranoia is doing to them then I agree wholeheartedly: just stop. If you must pursue the question of aliens, pursue it honestly and with some critical thinking. The field is full of neurotics and liars. If you just take everything people say at face value if it seems compelling, you'll never get out of it. Yes its not all lies, there is something real there, but you will never separate the two unless your primary aim is to do that. And there's nothing dishonorable about just stepping away from it.
I'd argue that if your 'hobby' involves getting duped by con artists, and involves paranoid delusions about authority, its already crossed the line into unhealthy. The link posted by the OP definitely does both.
Here's a pciture of something I've been involved with for the government:
Attachment 4546
This is a terrible quality photo, it would be mind blowing if you could see it in decently high definition. And a person could spin a lot of exotic stories about it that would convince a lot of people. But it seems remarkable only when you don't understand what you're looking at. Actually its mundane and not very interesting. More often than not, the main reason this sort of thing is 'secret' is it prevents taxpayers from knowing how much of their money is being squandered. Also some people involved enjoy the pretend drama of secrecy. Also when a few related details do need to be secret, the inevitable bureaucratic approach is just to classify everything.
All of the alien government conspiracy stuff is like this. Its compelling and maybe a little frightening in an exciting kind of way, and it seems plausible because people don't have the experience to understand what's really going on. Unscrupulous people cash in on that. But its all bullshit. Its like counterfeit money in the currency of ideas.
How do we know you're not a disinfo agent thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
lol Yeah, sorry. Just wanted to make sure it stood out.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
-I don't see what the con artists would be gaining from duping the op, or what op would be losing, besides time.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
-First, we can never say for sure whether any particular theory is correct or not. No matter how much evidence or how many facts you throw at it, it's STILL possible that those lemming Hail Bop Comet people were right, and we all missed our boat. That would be ridiculous, but it's still possible.
-Paranoid states can crush a person's state of mind. If a person has reached this state of mind, it is unhealthy.
...That picture. That's a flying saucer, isn't it. I can see it clearly. There are alien bodies all around it.
Hm. Point taken, though I would still challenge just how much of an impact it would have on the common person. I mean, what type of profile would the person we are talking about have? There are many degrees of conspiracy theorist (or just supernatural theorist). Are we talking about a guy who looks up at the stars and wonders? or are we talking about a guy who wears noodle strainers on his head?Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
And, my original point, which was not stated outright. One could say that about television and the media. As a mass, we trust television and the media. Some people don't, and to them, our media is unreliable. How many commercials do we watch/see/listen to every week? They certainly aren't honest. It's all dependent on what one believes. I personally don't believe in the concept known as belief.
I see that part of the thread got cut out. Thank you, whomever.
Especially now that the mods have pushed my post right to the top, replaced the old 'sloth' with an agent, and deleted all of the original sloth's posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carôusoul
I don't think its fair or constructive to heap too much derision on conspiracy theorists though. In life we're all faced with competing sets of ostensible 'facts', and have to make judgment calls about which claims to trust the most. There really is a lot of abuse of power by governments and big corporations, and there really are a lot of things that aren't understood by scientists. If somebody knows this from personal experience, or senses it on a gut level, then ridiculing them just hardens their position. They know their views are not treated fairly, so they trust the views of their critics even less. Also its a barrier towards understanding things that extremists are a little bit right about. I'm not suggesting that's what you were doing earlier, I'm just saying what I see of both sides of this, and trying to clarify my response.
They sell books, and skills like 'remote viewing' that a person can use to defend oneself in these troubled times, often at hundreds of dollars a lesson. They're not getting rich doing it, but its a living.Quote:
Originally Posted by sloth
I agree that it doesn't have much of an obvious impact on an average person. But the subtle, cumulative effect on a large number of people can be significant. Gravity is a fantastically weak force compared to electromagnetics, but it has huge effects on large scales because it acts in the same direction. Other things like fear are like that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by sloth
And I do care about the impact it has on unusual, extreme people also. If you're a person who doesn't take anything very seriously, or doesn't aspire to a high degree of cognitive consistency, or isn't willing to make a significant personal sacrifice for what you perceive is the greater good, then maybe it doesn't matter so much. But if you're a sincere person who believes a false claim, and you make rational decisions based on the claim, it can really mess up your life. For instance, if somebody claims to know that the world is going to change radically in Y2K, or 2012, or whenever, and you believe them and act accordingly, you can quite easily do irreparable damage to your career. That may not seem to matter much if you're young and don't care too much about possessions. But when you're 30 find you can't even get a fast food job because you don't fit the profile, then you start to care. Or to use another example, if it were really true that people spent an eternity in heaven or perished in hell based on accepting a religious idea, nothing else would matter besides proselytizing. Nothing. Except insofar as it impacted proselytizing. Consider how screwed up the world would get if we all acted rationally on that.
Your approach apparently is to protect yourself from this sort of thing by not forming hard beliefs about anything. But you still have beliefs in the sense of having working hypotheses. You make soft, qualified judgments about what ideas to have more or less confidence in for the time being. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to make decisions or think coherently about anything. Its true that you can't trust the media. Yet somehow you have to guess about which things the media says can or can not be trusted, otherwise you can't make successful choices about how to live. Someone would con you out of all your money, or dupe you into supporting things that you'd be appalled about supporting if you saw the whole picture. So you do need to be able to make grey-scale judgments about beliefs, you can't treat them all equally.
Another reason why I think that alien related disinformation is unhealthy is it steals a lot of oxygen from pursuit of personal development. Its not a coincidence that the UFO book section is right next to the Metaphysical book section. Most of the stuff in the Metaphysical section is nonsense too, but there are things that I care about a lot plowed in with all the nonsense.
And I'm offended by lying just on principle. I've been hurt by lies, I've seen a lot of other people hurt by lies. And there is an awful lot of that going on in the paranormal phenomena arena, particularly everywhere there is money involved. If the people who make shows on the history channel were merely mistaken it wouldn't bother me, but its done cynically. (By the way, you used the word 'lemming' as a metaphor. Did you know that lemmings don't actually plunge en-mass off cliffs, that Disney made that up? Ostriches don't hide by sticking their heads in the sand either.)
I do recognize that lying about paranormal stuff does have a kind of macabre utility in the overall scheme of things. All people, if in possession of a sufficient level occult knowledge, would be unable to resist the temptation to use it to manipulate other people for their own advantage. So everyone learns what they can handle according to whatever their motives are, then they get dragged to a stop by intellectual vanity, obsession with apocalyptic prophecies, or sex addiction, endless posting of fantastically long moralizing posts on Dreamviews (joking about myself here), or whatever. It sucks, but it would be a lot worse if we somehow got past the demon at the gate before we were ready, so to speak.
All that said, I agree with the essence of what you were trying to do, which is to stand up for someone who is trying to express a thought without being crapped all over by skeptics who aren't interested, or who think that other people can be browbeat into wiser behavior. In this case I also agree with the essential point that was made earlier though: If you work out or improve your mind it pays off eventually, and there's something about conspiracy theorizing that is very much not like that.
There's nothing wrong with a healthy amount of skepticism. But there comes a point where you have to ask are you just trying to convince yourself something isn't real or do you want to face the reality of a situation with actual critical research that you can report on in a lucid and clear objective manner.
That means you need the ability to discern what quality testimony is available and what relevant information exists that we can analyze.
There happens to be a leading group in this field that is extremely credible. They don't just have the odd military person but hundreds coming forward at once that have worked within the military, or people like pilots, people trusted with nuclear weapons. Documents, a alien body artifact. You name it they got the testimony, the experience, and the physical evidence to prove it. If that isn't enough for you, you are going to be left behind. Cause we are moving forward, weather they like it or not.
Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeZuYO-bNfY
I'll be left behind based on my best judgment about the reality of something that is mostly hidden. Where have I heard that before?Quote:
Originally Posted by knight31
I think its worth noting that millions of people have served in the US armed services. If one in a thousand is a bullshitter, or mentally ill, that's thousands of people.
I think I've said what I needed to say. Carry on.
One should remain vigilant of sales gimmicks that attempt to take advantage of innate fears of exclusion or possible consequence.
For instance I remember back in 2009 there was that whole October 21st thing where channelers all over the planet started receiving very similar messages regarding an impending visit by a very large ship. The most interesting thing about it was that they were all receiving the same date.
Originally they said they were definitely coming, then they regretfully snuck in the fact that they could only come if enough people believed they were coming because earth is driven by an expectation based program meaning we cannot be visited by extra-terrestrials until we most of us believe we can.
But I'm skeptical, and while the idea fascinated me, the truth obsesses me. So I continued researching and discovered another opinion claiming they were parasites pretending to be the GFOL. They would come in, make everything seem way better at first, and people who wanted help connecting to Source could get something implanted into them. The channelings hinted at this but worded it very carefully, they called it a crystal or something. But this alternative opinion claimed it was basically a radio combined with an amphetamine. Do what the signal tells you to, you get rewarded with a little amphetamine dose and mistake it for God rewarding you for doing good.
After reading this alternative opinion, another video came out by one of the channelers where it was explained that if people don't collectively pull in the aliens, they might get warped into an alternate dimension. Total bullshit, making no sense compared to their previous statements. It was all two truths and a lie bullshit the whole way through, but their truths struck nerves. They'd say something like "your heart knows when something is true" and then say something true, and bam you'd get a response of agreement from your heart. And you'd get excited. And the excitement would blind you from everything they said that your heart didn't agree with.
Obviously, they failed. But yeah, the true meaning of skepticism is not to ignore the channelers and write them off as crazy. Being a skeptic does not mean deeming certain things unworthy of investigation. It means deeming no investigation ever complete. Most self-proclaimed skeptics on this forum are the opposite. They consider their investigation complete the moment words like energy or aliens are used. To be a skeptic, it is your responsible to always look deeper. To always know the picture is incomplete.
Come on guys it's getting awfully obvious to the world by now. All countries bar USA releases tones and tones of UFO evidence of cases documented.
and latest media release
http://youtu.be/F7FectSGstk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrNku4n4a7s
another story in the news today it's everywhere.
Pilot tells of close shave with UFO - The West Australian
A passenger jet carrying 200 people came within 90m of colliding with an unidentified flying object, an official probe has heard.
The Daily Mail website in Britain reports that despite an investigation, the UK Airprox Board – which examines reports of near misses – could not explain the ‘blue and yellow’ object which passed under the Airbus 320.
The incident happened on December 2 last year over Baillieston, east of Glasgow Airport, at around 3500ft, the Mail said. The airline involved has not been identified.
"The shocked pilot reported the collision risk as ‘high’," the Mail said.
"The A320 was descending into Glasgow in clear conditions with the sun behind, when both the plane’s pilots saw an object around 100 yards away."
The board’s report said: "The object passed directly beneath before either of the crew had time to take avoiding action or had “really registered it”, although they both agreed that it appeared blue and yellow (or silver) in colour and was “quite large” with a small frontal area.
‘The controller stated he was not talking to anyone else in that area and nothing was seen on radar.’
In its report, the board dismissed a variety of possible explanations, including that the object was an untraced aircraft, a manned balloon or a weather balloon.
It considered that the object might have been a glider but board members were not able to reach a conclusion.
Attachment 4717
A lot of governments from several countries have already come forward with their UFO documents and admit they had no explanation for the phenomenons
The viewpoint in the US is basically that these countries are some how "less intelligent" and their governments can't tell the difference between the moon and a ufo. Which is completely racist. But anyways, that's off topic.
There's an awfully big difference between airborne paranormal phenomena being real, and governments working with alien visitors from other worlds.
To understand the airborne paranormal phenomena better, a person would have to try to separate that out from everything else. Most people who follow such things seem to notice when the phenomena get announced, then not notice when it gets definitively explained later. For example, that impressive spiral seen from Norway due to the failed Russian rocket test a couple of years ago. It appears to me that many of the UFO stories are 'real' in the sense that they aren't explained by known phenomena very well, but they don't fit the aliens-from-other-worlds-here-working-with-governments hypothesis at all well either.
Your argument is quite foolish when you consider the evidence for example it's a pretty big stretch of the imagination to suggest that a missile deactivation from the sky observed by those in charge of a nuclear facility, watch a flying object dart around the missile and beams fired, which consequently then tumbles out of the sky, to be merely 'Unexplained phenomena'. Neither can an entire military facilities nuclear weapons and communications base when taken over and de-activated be described sufficiently as unexplained phenomena. Such a thing is a gross understatement. To the point where one is just putting their head in the sand not to admit such a force is intelligent in nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
Right, but that still doesn't suppose aliens are in touch with governments or "secret governments" for that matter. The reason for the cover-up, from the point of view of the documentary Sirius (most recently) is to cover up Over-Unity Technology because it would destabilize the current power structure. Once you realize aliens are able to get here, you realize everything we believe about the universal time limit, etc, is wrong. Granted, that's just an opinion, but it's a conclusion I'm far more willing to buy into than the conspiracy you seem invested in regarding Luciferians and stuff.
I'm not invested or buying into anything other than saving souls and working for Jesus.
If you are weak satans going to blind you, like he almost blinded me out of promoting jesus.
You sound like a Satanist with a different vocabulary.
If you want to do that game of rhetorical assumptions , then I guess your mustache in your avatar looks like hitler, and comes from a character that is a terrorist, and an organization that calls itself 'legion'. so it looks like many hitlers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Poster
And why do you say your location is the new world. The new world order? lol
And what's original poster, You mean original impostor? It's okay you can say it... I know you trying to be subtle, but it isn't haha.
'don't even reply' you have written on it.
Too late I replied.
You delegitimize sane people that believe in disclosure. You promote polarity and claim peace and unity would be a victory for evil. This is BS propaganda, your heads been filled with Westboro style Satanism.
You know what is beautiful about you replying to this thread? How can I delegitimize sane disclosure if it's not sane? Either admit it's sane or it isn't. Not just trying to use every argument you can to cover things up. You will just look like an Anarchist. But you already do anyway because your avatar is a well known symbol for worldwide Anarchy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Poster
The written word is in polarity. If you are using words. You are in polarity. This is just a fantasy that you can be out of polarity and still communicate.
Also you can't have peace and unity under satan because that's ridiculous? Satan does not lead to peace. But he will ofcourse use the concept of peace and unity under a new world order to claim world domination. So when you see world peace festivals, and world peace at the Olympics. And those kinds of promotions. That should read "new world order of satan". Ofcourse you don't put "satans new world order" in big letters at the olympics, because then everyone would know what it's about.
Actually I feel silly explaining it because you are most likely a deceiver not merely a honest person who is just in ignorance. So I am in all likelihood wasting my time. Apart from separate readers. Which is what it's mainly for.
Your right, there isn't much point in replying to you. You seem incapable of intellectual honesty. You seem incapable of conversation at all, actually. You do realize that I believe in the testimony of the Disclosure, right? I just don't agree with the conclusions you draw from it. Regarding Disclosure, I'd be your closest chance at an ally. But instead, I have to agree with Justin, I hope to God you never reproduce.
