Thread: Ideas

so is there a reason why my thoughtform of being able to perform telekinesis when I was younger never came to fruition? I believed in it whole heartedly

Some ideas are simply bigger and more powerful than others, and take automatic precedence by housing and allowing the smaller ideas to take shape and the idea of cause and effect to remain intact.

Without that seeming pecking order to ideas, acausal ideas would arise-- causing chaos with endless paradoxes, and our ideal sense of linearity would end.

Imagine this analogy.

If all ideas were equal in strength and merit, a tree wishing to change the seeding process idea which brought it to the current idea of tree, would cause the tree to cease being a tree, and in turn, it would cease having the idea to bring about the idea to change...

No A... No C...

No B... No C...

As I mentioned, there is a noticeable pecking order to thought and ideas.

From the moment one wakes up, there is an automatic communal agreement and subconscious belief in those bigger ideas which further help solidify those ideas which brought you here and prevent them from being broken.

Take the idea of gravity.

The minute you wake up, you participate in following and obeying the idea of gravity.

All ideas-- the sun, the structures of our earthly elements, and all complex life forms on earth spring forth from this idea of gravity.

Our sun fission process, all planetary bodies, and all matter here is held together and rotated through this mysterious idea of gravity.

Sure, we measure gravity with our ideas and instruments but we don't really know what it is so we slap a label on it and pay it no more mind...

"GRAVITY"

Ultimately one must fall in line with gravity to exist as an idea here.

That idea houses our ideas.

It rotates them and allows them to take shape.

Unbreakable doesn't mean unbendable.

Why'd you give up on the idea to bend gravity?

If there's a will, there's a way.

Originally Posted by tkdyo

so is there a reason why my thoughtform of being able to perform telekinesis when I was younger never came to fruition? I believed in it whole heartedly

Its all about consensus. You may feel like you value your own opinions above others (I don't know if you really do, this is just an example) but in reality, you look for validation of your beliefs in what everyone else says. Even if you believed at one time that you could perform telekinesis, you soon put those beliefs aside and replaced them with what everyone else believes. It is extremely difficult to shape your own thoughts since they are created by the outside world as much as they create the outside world.

Take the example of a microphone and speaker creating feedback. Initially, there is seemingly no sound, and yet when you bring them close to each other, even the smallest fluctuation gets fed through the loop until it is a deafening screetch. Neither the microphone or the speaker can be blamed for creating the sound but they are both integral to its existence.

In the same way, you both create your world and it creates you. You project your thoughts and beliefs outwards but thoughts and beliefs are constantly being beamed into you as well.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Its all about consensus. You may feel like you value your own opinions above others (I don't know if you really do, this is just an example) but in reality, you look for validation of your beliefs in what everyone else says. Even if you believed at one time that you could perform telekinesis, you soon put those beliefs aside and replaced them with what everyone else believes..

I can agree to that. I do that consciously, and sub consciously. If i am working, i need my boss to tell me good job before i know if it's a good job or not. If i have an idea i seem to run it by others and make sure they say good idea before i know if it's good or not. If i really wanna do something (yes i am 25 and still seem to do it...i need to grow up already ) even if i know my dad will dislike it, i seem to want his opinion of it just so i wont do it. If there is a poll, i read the first few peoples answers and vote based on that. I do not plan to do it this way, it just seems to always happen this way before i get a chance to think of anything.

very interesting and concise responses from both of you guys. I guess I never looked at it that way. Thanks for taking the time to explain so thoroughly.

To answer the question at the end cyclic I gave up because I just couldnt get it to work. Not even the littlest pieces of paper or whatever...In the back of my mind I still try to treat it as plausible but I guess I had figured that if I could learn it, I would have by now.

Originally Posted by tkdyo

so is there a reason why my thoughtform of being able to perform telekinesis when I was younger never came to fruition? I believed in it whole heartedly

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, because really it's quite important:

Such things as these are like learning an instrument. You don't pick up a guitar and fingerpick a Ben Monder composition straight away; it takes time and practice.

There's additional disadvantages to it as well;

While there's reputable information on how to learn guitar, learning telekinesis is not as easy. There are no firm practice booklets; perhaps they might stumble upon something that works but they can't be sure due to its underground nature, with a relatively small sample of people doing it.

There is also (this is speculation here, admittedly; do not take it as writ) the problem of physicality. You strum a guitar, it makes a sound. Telekinesis will not be anywhere as powerful when you start; this is because you have to perform ALL the action, unlike guitar, which does most of the work in actually making the sounds. Thus, you can do much less to start; it may look for a long while like nothing is happening.

And if THAT isn't enough, there's also the world generally telling you "No, you cannot play guitar. The guitar does not exist, thus you cannot play it. Stop trying you weirdo." It's a rather disheartening message to try and learn under.

I actually used to be a strong believer of this o.o
That was back when I believed in witchcraft, too.
Hrm.
I also believed I could spiritually turn into a dragon....
I was an odd little chap XD

Originally Posted by Jesus of Suburbia

I also believed I could spiritually turn into a dragon....

Fun fact: I hallucinated I had dragon ears and a tail one time. The ears lasted a few minutes; the tail kept coming back for a couple of weeks.

Originally Posted by Lseadragon

Fun fact: I hallucinated I had dragon ears and a tail one time. The ears lasted a few minutes; the tail kept coming back for a couple of weeks.

Huh.
Awesome. I've always wanted to hallucinate
Hypnagogic isn't enough.

Forgive me if I'm completely off the mark, we seem to exist in very different semantic worlds. Took me a while to even remotely understand some of these points.

When you say ideas, do you mean any linguistic thought-forms? Or any physical/mental form created by the mind in general (i.e. everything)? I tend to lead towards the former.

The way I see it, evolution eventually brought our mental capacity to organize sensory data into symbols (language), in order to better understand and influence the universe. This important change marked the inception of the linguistic "idea" (as a mentally communicable thought-form), and subsequently the ideas of existence and consciousness; reality as we know it.

I don't know much about Memetics, but I can't help but think of it when it comes to the transmission of ideas. Those who are remembered in history generally were those who had an idea (or set of ideas) that caused them to exert a lot of influence on the world around them. I often use the examples of Jesus and the Buddha. People who's ideas allowed them to exert so much of an influence that even today their words are worshipped by millions. Those ideas are almost like viruses, they spread through the transmission of language/symbols throughout humanity to the point where it influences everything that happens profoundly.

Perhaps that's our mental evolution right there, the brainpower and consciousness to exert an influence over other ideas and by extension "reality" itself. Some people seem to make it there, and try to send back ideas that will bring others there as well. This generally doesn't seem to work though. Organized religion, while started with the best of intentions, has become a projection of our sick minds and ideas.

Ideas definitely seem to be picking up steam as well. Change seems to be happening at an exponential rate, possibly because with the use of language and symbols ideas can live on longer than humans. One generation can pick up where the other left off. Alfred Korzybski hinted at this I believe with the concept of time-binding. Terence McKenna had a different way of describing the same phenomenon with Timewave Zero. I personally envision the next stage of our evolution to be a meme-thought-idea-virus-etc that will spread through humanity and bring everyone who comes in contact with it to a state of "enlightenment", or whatever you want to call it.

So what exactly can we as individuals do while we're here to facilitate this grandiose process? Can we even do anything? Is the act of doing just an illusory and inhibitory process of the ego? How is one able to exert an influence over ideas that seem to be greater and more static than human perception?

I like your response Speesh. It was nice to see your string of ideas.

Apologies on my seemed incoherence. I assure you, it's coherent from where I catch my meaning.

In any event, it means exactly what it means.

Everything is an idea...

Evolution...

Invention...

Matter...

This entire act...

Forms are formed of information.

Particles flitting about forming into seemingly solid objects but are actually nothing more than the thoughts it took to label and conceive of them.

All labels dissolve upon realization of them as thoughts.

Particles...

Waves...

Energy...

All ideas.

From where?

The source of all sources.

The sorcerer of initial thought.

Nothing.

Through knowing nothing...

Nothing begins to come into focus...

Using that focus of your locus...

One can begin to turn towards something and bring it ever-easily into form with sorcerer's intent.

Ohh no I didn't think it was incoherent, the concepts were just difficult for me to wrap my mind around. After thinking about it for a while (and smoking a nice fat bowl) it clicked. It does indeed seem now that our entire human reality is constructed of a massive hierarchy of ideas.

The realization of that lead me to the realization of what McKenna means when he says "culture is your operating system". Cultural ideas spread virally between humans, and take precedence to the idea of the individual. They allow the idea of 'us' as we know ourselves to take shape. I think this may be what Carl Jung means as the collective unconscious. These ideas that are firmly deep-rooted and shared easily between minds.

As was recently posted in another thread,
"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish... Then he needs to get a fishing license, but he has no money so he needs to get a job and now he needs to get into the social security system and pay his taxes. So now he's got a fish and he can't even cook the motherfucker because he needs a permit for an open flame." -Doug Stanhope
There are probably thousands of these rules that we follow with an unconscious loyalty even more deep seated than our loyalty to our self-images. A mind free from this wouldn't simply ignore the rules, there wouldn't be any rules in mind to consider. Its no wonder so many people will defend their nationalities to the death, the idea of "them" is dependent on it! Religion is really no different than this as well. Its another very cultural, deep-rooted idea.

We seem to hate those who have different ideas than us, and the bigger the idea the bigger the conflict. Different views on good music can start insults, shouting, and arguments. Different views on religion can start violence, hatred, and wars. There's nothing humanity seems to hate more than the unknown, things that threaten our reality patterns and security. Fundamentally different or inconceivable ideas threaten our own, and people seem eager to defend them to the death.

I also understand now why Buddhist meditation is so concerned with calming the thought process. The thought process seems to be the heart of the idea-making machine. And since an idea cannot take form without an old one to give it shape, we tend to meet the present moment with the old, with conditioning, no matter what.

Consider the reality of children. At the beginning there is no concept of culture or even time, there is just being out of nothing. The original human idea of "I Am", as many Indian sages have called it. The thought process amasses these ideas, beginning with the collective ideas of observable phenomena and culture, then moving to the ideas of self-image and persona, opinions, biases, and so on.

So what is there to do? It seems logical to want to end this thought process--this factory of new ideas--and thus become aware of the old. But perhaps we shouldn't really 'do' anything. The act of 'doing' implies action based on another idea, made possible by the hierarchy. Cause after all, everything I've written above is just another idea disguised as truth .

Aimless rambling aside, I must thank you for sharing these thoughts. They've helped cause a very welcome shift in my own way of thinking.

(I) Eye-deas

seads of your Eye (I)

Realize...

Within and without are simply ideas.

Now...

Toy with the idea of within and without being the same thing...

Take the outside in...

Project the inside out...

The image is you.

Spoiler for Answers:

Wow cyclic.. I love your idea about ideas!

So all stems from one idea, and other ideas inherent from that idea. God would be the main idea, the seed, the universe would be the end result of the hierarchy of ideas? Looks like Object Oriented Programming to me if you would be familiar with that. Object Oriented Programming is pretty much logical proof of this possiblity.

Title length shortened. Let go of the "s" button next time.

Originally Posted by Akono

Title length shortened. Let go of the "s" button next time.

Shortening.

Limiting.

Only one with ssssssssssssuch a limited idea of power would choose to exercise that power in a ssssssssssssuch a limited way.

We choose to limit ourselvessssssssss.

Entertain the idea of... Limitlessnessssssss.

Soooo... What is this 'nothingness/emptiness', then?

The answer lies in the question...

Hold the question.

Feel the space.

Feel.

the.

space.

There.

it.

lies...

aaack.. Too much metaphor for my headd O_o

Feel the space? Whut?

Is it?

Simply go a bit deeper.

Feel the thinker of thought.

wow massive necro, I forgot all about this thread. and apparently I never thanked Lseadragon for the post :/

Im interested to see what else pops up