And that is a shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraknight
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And that is a shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraknight
I'm sure it could be possible, just for different reasons. I don't remember where I read this, but you know the monks that claim to be able to control Chi energy? They actually have a measurable charge throughout their body. It's the reason why that's debatable. When you rub your hand you do generate energy; heat for the most part. Salt crystal might have some chemical property that maybe even makes them change shape depending on the temperature of the surrounding air, I dunno. It's the reasons that bother me. Most of the time the reasons don't make sense. You know the monks that meditate and can prevent hypothermia when they get a blanket of freezing cold water put on them while any other person would pass out and die? They're obviously doing something. As a man of science I simply don't accept abstract, mystical explanations, that's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut
If you say so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
When did I say the brain doesn't have an EMF? Of course it does, it works via electrochemical impulses. Like I said though, there's no way for us to detect these EMFs.Quote:
Modern medical science uses technology to pick up human brain waves from a distance. In other words, our technology can pick up our brain waves OUTSIDE of the physical brain because these brain waves are being projected OUTSIDE of the physical brain. In other words, our brain has an energy field. Does it carry information? Medical science wouldn't be trying to understand these brain waves if they didn't.
YOU, your memories, your thoughts are NOT the brain cells. You, your memories and your thoughts are the ENERGY being fired from one brain cell to the other. You are the energy field being held within the physical brain. Therefore, this brain energy does carry information, the information of you. Our digital computers work in a similar fashion.
And how many times do you want me to tell you that there's no such thing as an energy field? It's nonsense. It's in your imagination. You might as well talk about jelly fields. Nor can you 'fire energy from one neuron to another'.
Our brain activity is far too intricate to be converted into a single wave; our brain consists of billions of neurons.
You're still only asserting that it's information and not just what science predicts would happen around areas of large nerve activity.Quote:
It aint glowing for show!
We can also read the electromagnetic information of the heart being projected from the body currently as far as about ten feet from the body. Though many suspect this heart field projects even further. The different waves of energy the heart produces directly correlate to your emotional well being. These heart fields interact with other heart fields. There is a lot of research going on right now.
EMFs don't have finite ranges, what do you mean 'scientists suspect the fields project even further'? If they 'suspect' that, they aren't scientists, they're idiots.
And are you ever actually going to provide some evidence for this heart stuff?
Except as far as I know you just made that up. Do you still not get it? I have no reason, especially based on your past credentials, to believe anything you are asserting.Quote:
Radio waves are all around us. But we can't (naturally) pick up the information they carry. We need a specific tool to do this, like a radio station. Our current technology can see the waves being emitted by our body. We know that, thanks to a decade of research, that there is a real transfer of information taking place within our bodies electromagnetic fields.
Oh, and last time I checked I didn't have a radio station in my car.
Uhuh. If we don't know what it's saying then how did they deduce it was saying anything in the first place?Quote:
But we have no technology that can tell us exactly what this energetic information is saying. And it's not hard to understand why. Just as you need a brain to experience the information being transferred between the brain cells, so to, do you need a heart and a brain to experience and decipher the information of our bodies electromagnetic fields.
For any technology to accurately read this 'digital' information being emitted by our brain and heart, that technology would have to be AS COMPLEX as the brain and heart.
Still no such thing as an energy field, and no such thing as 'harmonic energy'.Quote:
Intuitive people have been harping for years that love is more than a chemical reaction. THEY WIN! It's energy. Harmonic energy between two heart fields. Intuitive people also say, you can read a persons intention by their eyes. My money is they're right.
Except participants weren't thinking about 'cheese buggers', they were told to stare at the person. Trust you to dismiss that, with no reason whatsoever, as 'gazing at the person and thinking about something else'. The only scientific evidence in this thread so far says that this phenomenon doesn't exist and so of course you just ignore it.Quote:
I don't think you're understanding this phenomenon.
People look at us all the time. But the sense of being stared it is usually emotionally strong. Sometimes we feel this eye staring at this is coming from someone who has a malicious intent towards us, or sometimes it's the opposite. They're staring at us because they're in love. What ever the case, the sense of being stared at carries a conscious intention behind it.
You can ask a random person "Stare at this random person". But even if their eyes are gazing at that person as told, they could be thinking about a cheese bugger! In this case, they're not consciously staring at this person. Their eyes just happen to be looking at them, but consciously, their thoughts are else where.
The video suggests that the sense of being stared at is because of the persons brain wave sending the message "I am staring at you for a conscious reason". But if you're just looking at someone, but thinking about something else, it's a different message.
Why the hell not jurora? What do robots have to do with anything? If somebody can sense being stared at, then have somebody state at them and see if they can tell. There's no ambiguity here. If they can't tell then this phenomenon isn't real and you have to find another explanation.Quote:
Were not robots. It's going to take something more than a yes or no experiment to close this case.
I don't give explanations, I am just saying that it works, because I do it. I am not a scientist, so I don't have a scientific explanation. I don't think I have given an abstract mystical explanation. The salt thing isn't because of heat. It works concurrently and instantly with each pass of the hand. The more sensitive your hand gets the farther away from the crystal your hand can be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraknight
I am not a scientist, I am just observing a phenomenon. I think that first the phenomenon needs to be observed, and then science can come up with an explanation. Not the other way around.
It would be cool to read the paper that the guy wrote.
I don't know about this Ross guy, I looked him up and he seems like a quack, or perhaps that is just what Randi's people want you to think...but Rupert Sheldrake apparently has done extensive research on the matter.
The Sense of Being Stared At - Part 1: Is it Real or Illusory?
http://www.sheldrake.org/papers/Staring/JCSpaper1.pdf
Articles and Experiments: http://www.sheldrake.org/papers/Staring
Fair enough, but one thing I can assure you, it's not because of EM fields. Salt crystals don't even have a significant charge in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut
Science Measures the Human Energy FieldQuote:
Originally Posted by Xei
Quote:
Energy is a theme that permeates many areas of complementary health care, including Reiki. For historic and emotional reasons, two key words have not been mentionable in polite academic research society: "energy" and "touch." Hence it is not surprising that Reiki therapy has been neglected by mainstream biomedical science.
This picture is changing rapidly because of exciting research from around the world. The tale of how concepts of "healing energy" have swung from suspicion and ridicule to respectability is one of the most fascinating and clinically significant stories that can be told.
As in many other areas of investigation, what we were absolutely certain about 20 years ago has changed dramatically. For example, in a few decades scientists have gone from a conviction that there is no such thing as an energy field around the human body, to an absolute certainty that it exists. Moreover, we have begun to understand the roles of energy fields in health and disease. Most people are simply not aware of this research, and persist in the attitude that there is no logical basis for energy healing.
The main reason for the change in outlook is that sensitive instruments have been developed that can detect the minute energy fields around the human body. Of particular importance is the SQUID magnetometer (1) which is capable of detecting tiny biomagnetic fields associated with physiological activities in the body. (Figure 1) This is the same field that sensitive individuals have been describing for thousands of years, but that scientists have ignored because there was no objective way to measure it.
To summarize the discoveries that have been made, the editors of a new international journal commissioned a review of the concept of "healing energy" (2). While we have been researching this topic for some 15 years, the preparation of an in-depth review led to a thorough reexamination of the subject, with some unexpected conclusions.
For the most part, key discoveries are not being made by scientists studying methods such as Reiki, TT and HT. Instead, traditional scientists, following customary logic and scientific methods, have begun to clarify the roles of various kinds of energy in the healing process. Hence the picture that is emerging has the same scientific foundations that underlie modern clinical medicine. For details, see our published articles (3).
The human energy field.
It has long been known that activities of cells and tissues generate electrical fields that can be detected on the skin surface. But the laws of physics demand that any electrical current generates a corresponding magnetic field in the surrounding space. Since these fields were too tiny to detect, biologists assumed they could have no physiological significance.
This picture began to change in 1963. Gerhard Baule and Richard McFee of the Department of Electrical Engineering, Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY detected the biomagnetic field projected from the human heart. They used two coils, each with 2 million turns of wire, connected to a sensitive amplifier.
In 1970, David Cohen of MIT, using a SQUID magnetometer, confirmed the heart measurements. By 1972, Cohen had improved the sensitivity of his instrument, enabling him to measure magnetic fields around the head produced by brain activities.
Subsequently, it has been discovered that all tissues and organs produce specific magnetic pulsations, which have come to be known as biomagnetic fields. The traditional electrical recordings, such as the electrocardiogram and electroencephalogram, are now being complemented by biomagnetic recordings, called magnetocardiograms and magnetoencephalograms. For various reasons, mapping the magnetic fields in the space around the body often provides a more accurate indication of physiology and pathology than traditional electrical measurements.
Pathology alters the biomagnetic field
In the 1920’s and 1930’s, a distinguished researcher at Yale University School of Medicine, Harold Saxon Burr, suggested that diseases could be detected in the energy field of the body before physical symptoms appear. Moreover, Burr was convinced that diseases could be prevented by altering the energy field.
These concepts were ahead of their time, but are now being confirmed in medical research laboratories around the world. Scientists are using SQUID instruments to map the ways diseases alter biomagnetic fields around the body. Others are applying pulsating magnetic fields to stimulate healing. Again, sensitive individuals have been describing these phenomena for a long time, but there was no logical explanation of how it could happen.
Projection of energy from the hands of healers.
In the early 1980’s, Dr. John Zimmerman began a series of important studies on therapeutic touch, using a SQUID magnetometer at the University of Colorado School of Medicine in Denver. Zimmerman discovered that a huge pulsating biomagnetic field emanated from the hands of a TT practitioner. The frequency of the pulsations is not steady, but "sweeps" up and down, from 0.3 to 30 Hz (cycles per second), with most of the activity in the range of 7-8 Hz (Figure 2). The biomagnetic pulsations from the hands are in the same frequency range as brain waves and scientific studies of the frequencies necessary for healing indicate that they naturally sweep back and forth through the full range of therapeutic frequencies, thus being able to stimulate healing in any part of the body.
Confirmation of Zimmerman’s findings came in 1992, when Seto and colleagues, in Japan, studied practitioners of various martial arts and other healing methods. The "Qi emission" from the hands is so strong that they can be detected with a simple magnetometer consisting of two coils, of 80,000 turns of wire. Since then, a number of studies of QiGong practitioners have extended these investigations to the sound, light, and thermal fields emitted by healers. What is particularly interesting is that the pulsation frequency varies from moment to moment. Moreover, medical researchers developing pulsating magnetic field therapies are finding that these same frequencies are effective for ‘ jump starting’ healing in a variety of soft and hard tissues, even in patients unhealed for as long as 40 years. Specific frequencies stimulate the growth of nerves, bones, skin, capillaries, and ligaments. Of course Reiki practitioners and their patients have daily experiences of the healing process being "jump started," and academic medicine is now beginning to accept this therapy as logical and beneficial because of these new scientific findings. In Figure 2 we have bracketed portions of the signal that correspond to the frequencies used in medical devices that stimulate the healing of particular tissues. Individual differences in energy projection and detection.
To study the projection of energy from the hands of therapists, scientists must first recognize that there are huge individual differences between people. Repeated practice of various techniques can enhance the effect.
There are logical neurophysiological and biophysical explanations for the roles of practice and intention. [Editors note: It would be interesting to use these detection techniques to measure the effect of a Reiki attunement on the strength and frequency of biomagnetic energies coming from the hands and also to measure how theraputic frequencies may change when treating various conditions in the body.]
It is not widely understood that "brain waves" are not confined to the brain, but actually spread throughout the body via the perineural system, the connective tissue sheathes surrounding all of the nerves. Dr. Robert O. Becker has described how this system, more than any other, regulates injury repair processes throughout the body. Hence the entire nervous system acts as an "antenna" for projecting the biomagnetic pulsations that begin in the brain, specifically in the thalamus.
Moreover, waves that begin as relatively weak pulsations in the brain appear to gather strength as they flow along the peripheral nerves and into the hands. The mechanism of this amplification probably involves the perineural system and the other connective tissue systems, such as the fascia that are intimately associated with it.
Very interesting to hear about the science of energy healing.
My experience is that Reiki is transmitted by the hands, the eyes, and the breath.
It is interesting that it says that the frequencies in the hands are the same as those in the brain.
In Reiki we feel the energy coming from the crown chakra, through the heart, and through the hands. We also know that the more meditative and "higher" we are the more we can facilitate healing in the client. Also, the attunement or initiation into reiki is the process of passing this high frequency on to the student who can then learn to raise his frequency that high at will.
Where does one get a SQUID? That would be great to use in my classes.
Aquanina, perhaps you could try moving the Himalayan Salt Crystal? I would like to get a second opinion!
Oh come on, it has the word 'Reiki' in the first sentence. You really think that's science? Do a quick Google for "energy field" (with quotations) in Google and see what happens.Quote:
Science Measures the Human Energy Field
All you get are pages of pseudoscience and pages about 'human energy fields'. If it's a real physical thing, why on Earth is it specific to humans? No type of energy is specific to humans. Where are all the scientific articles about energy fields of other objects?
If you were able to comprehend the (nonsense) article you just linked to, you'd know that it talks about measuring electrical and magnetic fields, which are force fields.
Force and energy are two completely distinct physical concepts.
Energy fields are meaningless pseudoscience.
Google is not the only source of knowledge.
Also, it is not specific to humans or even animals and plants.
And a force field is generated by energy.
No it isn't. Gravitational force fields are created by mass; they don't require any input of energy. Electrostatic force fields are created by charge; they don't require any input of energy either.
I dunno much about Himalayan Salt Crystal, but I have had many first hand experiences with sensing and manipulating energy with some close friends of mine when I was living in Thailand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut
I remember the first time I sat down with my two friends, who apparently had been doing this for awhile, and tried to sense the flow of energy between us. We were sitting in a circle with our hands out to the sides, right hand facing down, left hand facing up...our hands were hovering a few inches apart. So they start the energy flow, and at first I'm just not feeling anything. It's obvious that the two of them are feeling something from each other though. They stop and ask me if I can feel it, I say not really. Then a bit later I'm sitting there and I feel something. It's heat. His hand is warm. I say something like, "uh, are you guys sure that what you are feeling isn't just body heat?" They smile and tell me to wait. Maybe adjust my perception slightly. Then all of a sudden...I felt it. "OHhhh!!" I exclaimed. Holy crap. It's real. And it's not just body heat. I felt a distinct flow of energy between each of our hands. My friends then concentrated and directed energy toward me...I felt it very strongly and after a few seconds my hands suddenly became all tingly, like a pins and needles sensation, that only occurred on my palms where they were directing their energy flow. I instinctually knew how to draw the energy in. I then tried to see if I could direct it. It wasn't easy. My energy flow was pretty weak at first. Anyways that was just the first time that I actually felt it. It's the most unusual sensation, I really wouldn't even know how to describe it. :P
Quote:
No it isn't. Gravitational force fields are created by mass; they don't require any input of energy. Electrostatic force fields are created by charge; they don't require any input of energy either.
I was speaking of the human electromagnetc field. And the electro magnetic fields of other things. And isn't mass energy? E=MC2
Anyway...
Try to move a lump of salt crystal without touching it, I dare you.
I don't think you will,
because what would that mean if it worked?
So simple. But not as simple as a google search.
Gain an experience instead
of doing a google search.
Try to manipulate a lump of salt crystal
with your energy/force field.
Energy is a constant that makes calculation easier, guys. It's not observed in the universe. We shall not forget that from now on, shall we?
Try to manipulate a compass with your electrical field. If you can, come back to this thread. Whilst not, don't post again.
Edit: Meh, fuck it. I don't even care about what I was saying originally.
Kromoh, tell me more about the nature of Energy as a constant.
It has to do with entropy and the second law of thermodynamics. It's an arbitrary definition, because it's too hard to calculate the state and movement of every single particle of a given system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Kromoh: ...energy as in...prana...Qi...psi...whatever.
What do you mean by lump of salt crystal? Like can I just use table salt? A pile of table salt? Is that what you are talking about? I honestly don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut
I don't think a powder would work because it is too small.
But have you seen those salt crystal candle holders or lamps?
At a gem shop you can get a little rock of pink salt from the Himalayas.
Maybe rock salt can work, IDK, I never tried.
Weirdly enough we have some Himalayan salt at the moment.
I couldn't move it though.
It's largely the same as rock salt.
My sister stares at me a lot...big eyes (though, not as big as mine :D). It's creepy!
When I have my eyes huge and I'm staring at someone...one kid says I'm "staring into his soul"...or if he's there and he sees me doing it to someone else. Really, it's just my creepily huge OMG eyes.
Nina, we'll just have to agree science is yet to observe those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
Hehe, beat you to it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquanina
I had to think of him immediately as well.
The information that is being said/read is an emotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
I am calling this emotion information because, information can be read. In the new science of the heart, the scientists can graph this heart field. They can describe it, it's donut shaped. They can watch how it interacts with other heart fields. One coherent heart field can easily place another heart field in coherence. This is all the measurable stuff. This is what the scientists can see.
The coherence or lack of coherence within our heart field directly relates to our emotional being. In other words, they are literally graphing our emotional state of being. The specific information that our science can not read is what specific emotion we are in. Just think for a moment and recall an emotion. It's a complex and amazing thing. And it takes something as amazing as a brain to read this information - the emotion.
Because to read an emotion, is to experience it.
But just as we can say "These brain waves correlates to concentration." Or "These brain waves correlates to dreaming". So to can the scientists say that this heart coherence or lack of heart coherence correlates to good or bad emotional states of being.
So while no tool can read what specific emotion you are projecting out into the world within your heart field - the science is advanced enough to say whether it's a positive emotion or not. And they know whether it's a good or bad emotional state because your entire physical body is effected, and there are measurable effects.
I like science a lot. I wasn't ignoring it. I didn't agree with it's point of view of what this phenomenon was to begin with.Quote:
The only scientific evidence in this thread so far says that this phenomenon doesn't exist and so of course you just ignore it.
If you would like to know more about the new science of the heart, you can start here. The research is NOT limited to this page.
http://www.heartmath.org/research/sc...the-heart.html
Now this is some happy science :D. These scientists are convinced, through their own research, that happiness is contagious! And, it's the secret to good health and healthy brains. They are on a mission to spread what they call heart coherence. There is a second website for this mission. At the same time, they are conducting research to see what are the global implications of this new science. With some very fascinating out of the box theories.
But if you don't understand what this website is saying (or why it's so damn happy) then you aren't ready for the next website