Talking to an expert

I was talking to my dad today (who is an experianced Lucid dreamer) and I told him that I started practicing LDing... I said that I am getting fairly good at dream recall and that I wasnt sure how to aproach inducing lucidness/having awareness... His responce was that (being a very religious man--and myself) I should not practice lucid dreaming because the state of mind that you are brought into is just un-comprehendable--- He said that when lucid dreaming its like exsposing yourself to evils and that my faith in god is yet to be strong enough to over come them...


I know many people will laugh at this thread but---Im just wondering if there are any religious people in here that might understand this and have somthing to say about it.

I'm nor religious, but I am spiritual, so I'll give you my best answer:

There is plenty of room for debate on this subject, so don't take just my word for it. Lucid dreaming is, in my opinion, a test of faith. In a lucid dream you can do anything at all without retribution. So, if you find yourself having sinful LDs, you can always abandon it, but if your dreams remain pure then you should pat yourself on the back, because it means you believe in morality on the concious and subconcious level!

Im religous and I lucid dream, I even had a lucid dream where I asked a precher if lucid dreaming was evil he said yes and dorve off in one of those fancy top down red cars, then a tornado (gods "anger") that went right though me so i dont think god is enraged at people who lucid dream

That is so weird that you posted this. I was talking to a christian friend yesterday and was explaining LD. I am also a christian but have been struggling, and she says that I am opening myself up to all types of evil when I stop letting God be in control and I take control(such as in my dreams).

I really dont have an opinion on this yet but I would like to think that I have not been "open to evil" since I was little. But when I think about it anything you encounter on a daily basis you are open to some type of evil, it is up to you weather you choose right or wrong.

BUT I guess that would explain all the voices, Ha Ha

Hi!

I am a born again Christian. Born again March 1973 :D

I do not know about lucid dreaming opening yourself up to any evils, I believe that if you are born again, you have protection again any evil that may be lurking around out there. HOWEVER, it will be quite a test of your faith and convictions!

Most people refrain from doing things they know are wrong because they are either afraid of the consequences or are afraid of being caught. In a lucid dream, you are pretty much in a consequence free environment.

Kill someone? Who will ever know about it, it's just a dream, right?
Rape someone? Just a dream character?

The thing is...you are concious in a lucid dream, almost as concious as you are while awake. This being the case, you DO know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. If you kill in a lucid dream, you have committed murder in your heart, same for rape and any other sin.

If you can resist these temptations while in the lucid state, then you will prove that you have fine moral fiber and faith.

If you feel comfortable, please share my posting with your father and see if this is what he is referring to.

Hmm, I had to think hard about whether I should respond to this post - because the more I learn about lucid dreaming, the less religious I become (and I was barely religious to begin with!).

It's not that I feel that lucid dreaming is the opposite to religion. It's because the more I learn what lucid dreaming, the more I learn about myself. And I've been finding that the more I learn about myself, the more I realize that there is no need to believe (or depend) on any other force to guide me through life.

God to me isn't some old man sittin up in the heavens who had a son named Jesus etc, etc... He (it) is just a representation of something that binds us all together in some way as living beings. If people would just get this through their thick skulls, there would be no more wars based on religion. God, Ala, Muhamed....whatever, we're all talking about the same thing - just different story.

Anyway, the reason for expressing my view? It just so happens that last night I went lucid, and at one point I soared way up into the sky in wanting to see how high I could get. I went beyond the clouds and into what looked like space. But then I came upon another "setting". I decended and came a cross a structure that looked very much like a church. "Oh, geez" I thought, "is that what I think it is?What the heck is that doing in here?". I went inside, and sure enough, it was a church. I'm not going to go into what I found in the church - but what I came away with from this dream, is that there is still a place within me for religion (or rather - faith?). I guess this dream revealed that I wasn't so "anti-religion" as I first thought. And you know what, I was ok with that.

Hello, Im glad you posted this topic because this is something that has also been on my mind for a while. I am also a christian and am very religious. At first I was kinda sceptical about the whole concept of lucid dreaming. But I was so intrigued with the concept and decieded to learn more about it. I have actaually had about 5. Many groups debate over wether doing this is a spritial thing or just an achievement of an unusual state of mind. I would like to think that doing this is just really awakening your concious mind while your subconcious is still projecting your dream. No spirtial awakening or practicing methods some...Illuminati or something. Just straight up science. But then again, this may be just that. Both sides seem to battle over how is right and who is wrong. Maybe both of the facts coincide and we have yet to figure that out but, I would just recommened praying about it and let God do his thing.

If he's an active lucid-dreamer, then he is what I would call a hipocrit.

He is not a hipocrit because he has one of the strongest faith's in god that I have ever seen in a man. He said I should not lucid dream because my faith in god is not strong enough... his is, there for he is not a hipocrit.

Ill try to explain somthing here.

Your mind is its own radio station. And like a radio station, people can call in and controll that station (Like requesting a song). I have yet to dream lucid but I have been thinking about it and learning for sometime... and though I may not have the experiance that some people do, I do think that it is possible for people to really tune into your subconscience mind and pervert it.

Think about that then try to answer my question... I just dont wanna lose my faith in god because I learned how to "play god"...


Im a creationist. Not a Scientist... which means I knock science with religion.

I believe evolution happend in a few thousand years. Not Millions.
I believe that there is perfect proof for the existance of god - (PM me for an answer to that, that will make you think for days...please do PM me)
I believe that our minds have the ability to do things that we think... cant even think off.
I believe that satan exists. and I believe that he is much stronger and pursuasive than we think! which is why I brought up this question in the first place.




If it is true that evil can enter your dreams... is it possible to defeat it? Most will say that since your dreaming lucid, you can do what ever you want to it... but evil(satan) is stronger than we think.

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Originally posted by sweetshoes18
.. but evil(satan) is stronger than we think.

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Satan is not stronger than od, or you if you put your trust in God. Remember, he was defeated.

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Originally posted by Seeker


Satan is not stronger than God, or you if you put your trust in God. Remember, he was defeated.

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I was atheist, than christian , then muslim and now highly spiritual and very experienced in astral travel and LD.

I have one thing to say about religion. Belief in god based on fear, which is of course not the real thing.

Knowledge and greater awareness lead to evil only when chosen to..

Evil is a choice.. not a product of knowledge and awareness.

oh and btw: most lucid dreams are NOT only in your head.. those are some real worlds there with real consequences.. i've been warned few times already, especially about messing with time flow.

This is an interesting thread. I have had lucid dreams before, but I didn't realize they were lucid dreams, which is why I got so interested about it when I learned that there was info about it. Since last week when I first found this site, I've had 4 LD's. They didn't last long and I thought that they were amazing. I didn't really think about the whole religious side of it. I kinda agree with the others that said that as long as you stick to your morals while asleep that it's not a big deal. Because although I don't believe in affairs, and having sex out of wedlock, or with anyone but your spouse, I've had dreams where people of the opposite sex wanted me to do that with them. Since I was not lucid, I didn't consciously bring that on myself, and I had no way of controlling it.

With that said however, I can really see how things could get ugly if you choose to do things in your dreams that are against your morals, because since you are conscious it would be almost the same to your mind as if you did it for real. Being conscious you still have the chance of doing something evil that you wouldn't normally do in real life.

As long as you can keep your morals up, and use LD's as a growing experience, or just as a playground where you can fly, go underwater, etc and not as a place to do the things you want to do in real life but can't for whatever reason (Sex, stealing, killing, etc) then I don't see that there is anything bad with it.

I completely forgot about this website and this thread I posted and I am so glad I found it all again... I have been out of the loop (for everything) for along while and im starting to get myself back together finaly...

My responce to:

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Originally posted by TheChosen
I was atheist, than christian , then muslim and now highly spiritual and very experienced in astral travel and LD.

I have one thing to say about religion. Belief in god based on fear, which is of course not the real thing.

Knowledge and greater awareness lead to evil only when chosen to.. *

Evil is a choice.. not a product of knowledge and awareness.

oh and btw: most lucid dreams are NOT only in your head.. those are some real worlds there with real consequences.. i've been warned few times already, especially about messing with time flow.

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I am shocked that you say belief in God is based on fear... Genuine belief is due to selflessness and respect for the father that created you, not fear of going to hell. The fear of going to hell comes secondly after the act of sin (or in some cases vise-versa) BUT... like I said, any TRUE pious man or woman is not religious for the mere reason of punishment, but for the reason of love (which is hard to come by now days...
:( )



TheChosen, I am highly interested in your comment "most lucid dreams are NOT only in your head.. those are some real worlds there with real consequences.. i've been warned few times already, especially about messing with time flow"

please explain this









- Tony

I think it is rather silly to say that lucid dreaming opens a person up to evil. I don't know about the rest of you but I see more evil in one day in the "real world" than I have in all my lucid dreams.
Evil is everywhere, it's up to you how you let it effect you.
Dont assume that your god will be displeased if you do something that feels good.

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Originally posted by Seeker

Most people refrain from doing things they know are wrong because they are either afraid of the consequences or are afraid of being caught. *In a lucid dream, you are pretty much in a consequence free environment. *

Kill someone? *Who will ever know about it, it's just a dream, right?
Rape someone? *Just a dream character?

The thing is...you are concious in a lucid dream, almost as concious as you are while awake. *This being the case, you DO know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. *If you kill in a lucid dream, you have committed murder in your heart, same for rape and any other sin.

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I'd just like to add my view on this issue.

I see where you are going with this and will agree that a dream is the perfect place to test one's convictions.

The difference in committing murder in a dream is that no one has actually been killed. If I shoot some guy in a dream, I have not taken away anyone's son. I have not killed someone's father. I have not killed someone's friend. The only way in which that person existed was as an image in my mind. Key word: image, which relates closely to the word: imagined. And it was just that -- imaginary. What if I simply imagine killing someone while awake? Does that make me as morally guilty as a someone who actually does it? What is the difference between shooting someone in my dream and me drawing a picture of the same thing?

I would never rob a person of their life in cold blood, nor steal someone's son, father, or friend.

I might imagine killing a man.

I have not committed murder in my heart, I have only viewed it in my mind.

Personally I'm fully aware of just how well I will stick to my morals in any given situation. I'm not so insecure with my morality that I need it proven in a dream. Sure, I'm not perfect, and I will make mistakes, but I know I'd never kill a person in real life [self defence exempt], even if there were absolutely no consequences for doing so.

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I believe that there is perfect proof for the existance of god - (PM me for an answer to that, that will make you think for days...please do PM me)[/b]

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You seem pretty confident about that. Why not start a thread in the religion section?

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Originally posted by mossboss
Dont assume that your god will be displeased if you do something that feels good.

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Then why does he kill a kitten every time I masturbate? :rolllaugh:

What about the catholic church and condoms? Procreation is fine but when it comes to having fun.... :roll:

Well, if I were you, I'd tell your dad what he wants to hear and go on LDing on your own. I mean, if LDing opened you up to evils, everyone on here would be absolutely evil. Yet, some of the most devout Christians I've heard of post here and LD. So, saying that is almost like saying learning to swim is evil....Or any learning for that matter. Take what your father says lightly. He's trying to help you, but you don't always have to believe everything he says.

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Well, if I were you, I'd tell your dad what he wants to hear and go on LDing on your own.[/b]

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Sry Gwendolyn I would disagree to this.
I don't know if what evils could attack one in lucid dreaming (I think none), but in any case you shouldn't lie to your father, becouse this would be a straight lie.
Only my opinion.

The following are snipped out of my journal just as I was discovering what LD really is. My thoughts have not changed. If you want to cut to the chase, the final paragraph sums it up:

...

Which brings me to a few observations and ponderings. I've done some looking into what I now know as Lucid Dreaming. Many people experience it spontaneously, while many others practice techniques to induce lucid dreams. As one might expect, lucid dreams have a lot of connections to occultic and New Age traditions, including Astral Travel and Out of Body Experiences (OBE). Dreams, however, are dreams. We all have them. Some of us recall them vividly, others don't remember them at all... but research demonstrates that it is a natural function of our brains. Dreams can be powerful, vivid and emotionally charged.

(snip)

Perhaps this is all hypnosis really is? Many of the techniques to induce lucid dreams are very like self hypnosis and auto suggestion. After my martini glass experience last week, I recognize that in-between twilight as a place that hypnosis would quite naturally lead.

What many refer to as "trance states" are as common to us humans as watching a movie or driving a car. We drift into and out of different levels of consciousness all the time. The potential danger comes, I believe, in using our natural capacities to open ourselves to spiritual influence. We are spiritual beings, living in a physical world with other spiritual beings. I know from experience that there is vast, powerful evil here, and that we are capable both of deliberately and inadvertantly becoming beholden to those influences. I also know that God reigns supreme, and that those spiritual influences have no authority over His children.

And I am His child. So... is what I am experiencing bad or dangerous? So far, I really don't think so. Could it be? Sure, but so can music and art and worship and a million other things. These dreams seem to be no more than what we all have been designed to do anyway - with the sole difference of the impression of awareness... the reality of which I'm wondering about anyway. (I have since changed my mind about the reality of awareness in LD, by the way. I'm absolutely convinced it is genuine.)

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Originally posted by qzole+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qzole)</div>

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Originally posted by Gwendolyn@
Well, if I were you, I'd tell your dad what he wants to hear and go on LDing on your own.

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Sry Gwendolyn I would disagree to this.
I don't know if what evils could attack one in lucid dreaming (I think none), but in any case you shouldn't lie to your father, becouse this would be a straight lie.[/b]

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I agree with Gwen. Some people won't rest until they are convinced that you think the exact same way they do. Sometimes, you need to tell them what they want to hear to make everyone's lives easier, especially if you're not going to agree with them about it anyway. It may be a lie, but it's a white lie that isn't hurting anyone - only making everyone involved happy. There's nothing wrong with that.

<!--QuoteBegin-TheChosen
Knowledge and greater awareness lead to evil only when chosen to.. *

Evil is a choice.. not a product of knowledge and awareness.

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I also agree with this statement. I get so aggravated when people of a certain religion say that LDing is evil. There is nothing unnatural or evil about dreaming or lucid dreaming. If you are lucid, like Seeker said, you still know the difference between right and wrong, and can make a choice about your actions.

It's also my belief that if someone feels like beating the shit out of someone, I'd rather they do it in a dream than in real life! You can do whatever you want in a dream and it won't hurt anyone, and no one else will know about it. Violent thoughts and actions may be a part of the human mind, and what better way to express it than in dreams where you can't hurt anyone?

However, if you are carrying out evil-intentions inside an LD, you yourself are the only one that will have to deal with the knowledge that you're doing these things. There may be a bigger underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

So, I think when someone tells you that LDing is evil and against a particular religion, it's just that person trying to gain control of everyone around them, and push their beliefs on you. Personally, I'm the type of person that if you tell me not to do something, I'll go out and do it (or vice versa) - just to prove that no one has the right to tell me what I can and can't do. I'm an adult and make my own decisions about things. But if you are underage, and live with your parents, you'll need to try your best to keep things calm and everyone happy, until you are out on your own and can live your own life. This doesn't mean you have to believe in your parent's beliefs, but arguing with them about it isn't going to solve anything, but only create problems.

Therefore, like what Gwen said above, tell them what they want to hear, so everyone is happy, and continue LDing as usual - just don't leave your dream journal laying around for anyone to pick and read. :wink:

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Originally posted by qzole

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Well, if I were you, I'd tell your dad what he wants to hear and go on LDing on your own.

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Sry Gwendolyn I would disagree to this.
I don't know if what evils could attack one in lucid dreaming (I think none), but in any case you shouldn't lie to your father, becouse this would be a straight lie.
Only my opinion.[/b]

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Well, I don't like the idea of lying...But a lot of really religious folk won't accept that sort of thing, and I am sure that her discomfort if she said something like, "I'm going to continue to LD even though you don't approve" will be more so than if she lied. As Burns said, there's no pleasing some people...

I think that the only reason you would have to lie to anyone is if they are trying to get a promise or something out of you. If that is the case, and you know you aren't going to convince them, then there are only two ways of getting out of that: tell them what they want to hear (yes, it IS lying) or just telling them straight out that you're not going to stop. I personally think that in most cases, even when it would hurt, the honest truth is the best thing, because if you do tell them that you're going to stop, and they find out later, then you're worse off than if you had just told them you were going to keep doing it in the first place. Especially if you don't think it's wrong, I don't think you should have to stop just because your parents don't like the idea of it. I would suggest even just letting it drop for a while: changing the subject, shrugging it off, that sort of thing any time they bring it up, and eventually they may come to a point where they're willing to listen to your reasoning for it, and even accept what you're doing, even if they still don't like it.

This was the question I asked

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Originally posted by sweetshoes18
I was talking to my dad today (who is an experianced Lucid dreamer) and I told him that I started practicing LDing... I said that I am getting fairly good at dream recall and that I wasnt sure how to aproach inducing lucidness/having awareness... His responce was that (being a very religious man--and myself) I should not practice lucid dreaming because the state of mind that you are brought into is just un-comprehendable--- He said that when lucid dreaming its like exsposing yourself to evils and that my faith in god is yet to be strong enough to over come them...


* *I know many people will laugh at this thread but---Im just wondering if there are any religious people in here that might understand this and have somthing to say about it.

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I did not ask if I should lie or not, I asked if anyone beliefs this to be true. If people clame to connect to other people as they dream, why cant satan connect to you?

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Originally posted by sweetshoes18
If people clame to connect to other people as they dream, why cant satan connect to you?

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I am still not 100% convinced that you can connect to other people while in a dream. I've heard a few accounts of it happening, but it seems to be very rare.

Now, why can't Satan connect to you in a lucid dream? For the same reason he cannot connect to you while you are awake. The answer I gave last year. If you put your trust in God, then Satan cannot harm you.