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hi there, well i dont question the fact that blind men dream or can have lucid dreams.. its just interesting for me how a blind man would act if he was lucid in his dreams considering he is blind from birth..
can he fly? (ofcourse he can't) so what freedom will he gain by being lucid in his dreams? dreaming about new unsmelled before odour or sound?
i find it hard to imagine since i can't dream about a new color i havn't seen before..
anyone with ideas?
i would love to hear your opinions!
Why would you say he can't? He may not be able to SEE himself flying, but he can probably feel the motion/wind/etc. Just a guess. Next time your LD flying, trying closing your eyes and see if you can tell if you're still flying.Quote:
Originally posted by koko
can he fly? (ofcourse he can't)...
and you can do anything in a dream. Why not gain sight if your blind?
~Corbin
I imagine blind people can see perfectly well in dreams because they do not use their eyes in their dreams, they obviously would have completely different dreams from someone with sight as they have a different way of percieving things.
That would be an amazing experience for the guy, but I seriously doubt it would match the real experience. If he has never experienced sight, he can only guess what its like.Quote:
Why not gain sight if your blind? [/b]
Still worth trying though :!:
with all due respect, a man that is blind from birth can't gain sight in his dreams. he doesnt even know what sight is (try to imagine a color you havn't seen before - you can't! same here, as for the question if a blind man sees total blackness or some random colors i can't answer, and even if he was blind from the age of 3 (for example) i think his dreams would've become very very limited with sights experiences (if at all) because sight isn't related to his current lifestyle and survival instincts. dream material is stuff you experience in reality. blind man's world is based on touch if he can't touch/hear/smell something it doesnt exist. just like we look at a pertty girl they need to touch her (in order to "look at her) if we see a mountain in the distance they wouldn't be aware of it... they wouldn't even be able to say "oh there's a mountain i'm going to walk towards it" because it makes no sound or creates no smell.. the world of the blind man is very limited. so are his dreams. i'm sure there is some compensation, but they dream in touch/hear/smell.
so, how for a blind man to become lucid in his dreams would give him that extra freedom (okay he can feel himself flying.. but i dont think that's his ultimate desire like people who can see perefctly.. flying is mere wind in his face.. wouldn't think of it as freedom for a man who can't see)
i hope you understand my question
peace and love,
koko
Yes, idont think blind people can gain sight in dreams... But i think that SIGHT is strongest in our dreams... I mean we dont remember sounds as good as sight...
I think that dreams of blind ppl are a bit diffirent... Maybe they see light ? Flashing white or smth? Maybe if they would be lucid they could control that light ? dunno...
P.S. I think it should be moved in general discussion
people can do anything in dreams. whats to stop them from gaining sight in dreams?
Because dreams are just your mind creating things based on past experience. Their brain has nothing to construct sight from. Now blind people who LOST their sight later in life, sure. But people who have never seen, no.Quote:
Originally posted by padfoot
people can do anything in dreams. whats to stop them from gaining sight in dreams?
whats stoping you from seeing a color you never saw before?Quote:
Originally posted by padfoot
people can do anything in dreams. whats to stop them from gaining sight in dreams?
I think they could see, I don't know about seeing colours but I think they could see in their own way. I don't think we can say if they do or not until an actual blind person comes into here and tells us.
I don't think they can see. However, I'm sure they can have lucid dreams.
No that I think of it I don't know if they could see. The could dream and be seeing in what they think as seeing but really it would be way different to the real world. Just my opinion.
i see, but what if they happen to know directions to a place, and they previously had sight, they would love to see it, so they went and followed the directions, and saw the place they've longed to see for so long.
eh? am i genius or what?
i think about the things i'm trying to solve, and after a while, CHA-CHING!!! i've got an idea, i run it by people who work on it too, and you know what happens when i'm right? the same thing that happens to everyone else! and if negative, i find a nother idea.
Here's an idea :idea:, use the edit button :wink:
Don't worry truthbearer gave me the same lecture. Although he is right.
i admit, those two seperet were kinda stupid, but what about my idea? what say the people?
Pad foot your idea sounds logical but i don't think it was well thought up.
In your dreams, people can dream about things they wish were different in real life (i.e. being in a wheelchair, and suddenly your legs start to work). I would think a person, blind from birth would dream that he had sight... Sight in his dream would definately have to be different from what we see in real life, but nonetheless, it would be THE real thing to him in his dream. I would only be able to ponder what things would LOOK like to a person who has never seen anything.
Similar to what you would picture in your mind with someone telling you about a vacation spot like the carribean, if you had never seen pictures of it, you could only leave it up to your imagination.
Imagine how he would feel, being able to look around instead of hearing or feeling around for once in his life... It would be an amazing thing. Surely a blind person wouldnt have sight in all of his(or her, im not trying to be sexist) dreams, or do they??? :wink:
I don't know maybe ur right.
you so took my idea for a thread. you suck. >:|
Simple, Proven Facts That You Just Have To Believe:
Blind people have lucids.
People that have been blind all their life do not have visions in their dreams, but have enchanced smell and touch, etc.
People that haven't been bilnd all their life can/do have visions in their dreams.
The Same Simple, Proven Facts That You Just Have To Believe But Don't And Now Need To Be Convinced More:
ALL blind people do have lucid dreams. Just because you don't have vision dosen't mean you can't have dreams/lucid dreams.
People that haven't been blind all their life have seen things before. Their eyes have seen color. Their brains, therefore have memorized the signal sent to the brain that says "This is a color", and is thereinafter capable of reproducing it for a dream.
People that have been blind all their life have never seen a colour. Close your eyes for a second or two, memorize what you see, and open them. You should of seen black (or hypagognic imagery, yeah, but for the simplicity of explanation, just say black). Right, say you meet a person in the street who has been blind all their life. Attempt to describe to them the color red. Your conversation will go something like this:
Attempt to describe it now, without pointing to red or showing somebody red and saying "This is red". You can't. You can't say "Red is like green except not as greenish", because they haven't seen green.Quote:
You: Hello, sir!
Blind Person: Yes? *goes over to you*. What do you want?
You: I'd like to describe to you the color red.
Blind Person: (Chances are they'll say \"go away, you horrible person\", but let's just say they agree) - \"Okay\".
You: Right, you know the color green?
Blind Person: Er, no.
You: Do you know any color?
Blind Person: Nope.
You: Well, red is kind of, er...um..well, yeah.
Blind Person: You suck. *walks away*[/b]
Fact is, you simply cannot do it. Lucid Dreaming is limited to what your mind knows. And a person who has been blind all their life dosen't know what a color is. Okay, they might know what you mean by "color", as in what a object's color is, but they haven't seen a color and therefore cannot reproduce it in a dream, see it in a dream or do bog all with it.
It's like trying to eat a polish sasuage when you don't have a polish sasuage. You'll be there all day and you won't accomplish anything.
And they lived happily ever after, except Alice died.
lets put it this way... where do these senses come from? If the senses you have in a dream come from the parts of the brain responsible for the intake of those senses, then what happens when that part of the brain isn't functioning? When a man his blind, there are two ways that he can be blind; either the part of the brain responsible for sight doesn't work properly, or his eyes don't work properly. If the part of the brain responsible for sight (I can't remember the specific section) isn't functioning, then there is no way for him to recreate the sense of sight, unless those senses are directly coming from past memory, or the *supposed* creative section of your brain.
Let's assume for a moment that a blind person cannot see in a dream, how would they become lucid? With such optimal senses, I doubt somebody could realise they are dreaming. Even if they became lucid, it probably wouldn't have lasted long because they wouldn't have all tactile senses to mentally grasp onto.
I have some major quarrels with the things I've said, but I won't go into them :?
Death is right.
The only reason we don't see in black and white is because the way that color reflects/hits objects...
In dreams, there IS NO LIGHT BEHIND OUR EYELIDS, therefore we cannot, in essense, 'dream in color'.
*The only reason why we dream in color is because of MEMORY*
Now...relate this to blind people....they will dream using memories of SOUNDS mostly, flashes of hypnogogic imagery, etc...mostly the other 4 senses....
cool, so we can only dream up colors that we've seen?
[quote]
*The only reason why we dream in color is because of MEMORY*
The only reason we dream with VISION is because of memory, I'd say.
If you're colourblind you're gonna see messed up colours in your dreams as well, because you EXPECT it, and its all perfectly normal to you.
Or imagine.... But imagining another colour isnt really possible is it :wink:Quote:
cool, so we can only dream up colors that we've seen?
But basicly yes you cant dream of anything you dont know, havent experienced before.
Useful information on this topis from this post:
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic....lind+peaople%2A
I found this sight to prove the discussion:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=33320
Why do we care if blind people dream visions. Do we just like cramming trivial stuff in our empty heads.
Because we are bored and need something controversial to discuss. :P
so that explained why i saw a girly kind of heart beating out at me in a dream when i was two, i didn't know what A real heart looked like.
Yup, you're right. Also, TV and books expand your imagination enormously so you'd be able to dream about cooler stuff then say people in the dark ages.Quote:
Originally posted by padfoot
so that explained why i saw a girly kind of heart beating out at me in a dream when i was two, i didn't know what A real heart looked like.
cool.
So people in the dark ages couldn't dream futuristic right cuz they had nothing to base it on right. Like movies or theories or stuff like that.
i would have to say- correct.
I think we would want to know this because we are curious. Secondly, all of these questions are relative to lucid dreaming, and that is why we are all here. Dreaming is mainly studied by communication between humans, and this is what we are doing. This is probably one of the most amazing things that humans have experienced, and I'll be damned if I can't cram my brain full of information on this topic.
i knew that all my theories weren't wrong
Quote:
Originally posted by IAmCorbin
and you can do anything in a dream. Why not gain sight if your blind?
~Corbin
if a blind person can gain sight which he has never expirienced, wouldn't that mean any person can gain a totaly new sense ? ... that's a little hard to imagine
[quote][quote]
*The only reason why we dream in color is because of MEMORY*
The only reason we dream with VISION is because of memory, I'd say.
If you're colourblind you're gonna see messed up colours in your dreams as well, because you EXPECT it, and its all perfectly normal to you.
I agree, CT...blind men 'dream' with the other 4 senses...
We should stop making assumptions and theories and such and just go ask a blind man...that would save ourselves a lot of trouble and BS....
I don't know any blind people. And not many blind people use computers.
I don't think we need to ask a blind person coz I'm here! *asks stupid question and gives stupid answer to question that has been asked*
A blind man wouldn't be able to dream sight because he has not experienced it because think of it this way if you could imagine something that you had never experienced! E.G. as you said a colour-blind person could dream in colour because the had never experienced it and their eyes would not be able to have told the brain what a colour was like so therefore they would dream in greyscale type thingy. So there fore a blind person could not dream with sight included just the other four senses(and if he had a sixth sense then he could use that one too)
It would be his 5th sense if he was blind. :D
Exactly! See now everyone's happy with what I said it's finished and I was right for once (or maybe the second time) so is everyone happy with what I said?
interesting topic.
although i've never felt so inclined so as to research this, i'd like to present my own, ignorant, dissenting view. personally i don't believe the brain is so dependent on the eyes that it needs them to "tell it about colour"; i believe the brain is crafted in such a way that it can readily discern colour on its own, with or w/o cooperation from the eyes. it's our brain that processes the images we see...not the eyes; they merely send the signals to the brain. thus, i submit that it is entirely possible for a colour blind (or completely blind) person to dream in colour. i'd imagine, however, that the colours would not be distributed in any realistic way, as that much i'm sure would require at least a glimpse of what the real world resembles.Quote:
Originally posted by Finde
... and their eyes would not be able to have told the brain what a colour was like ...
moving along with the subject of the blind dreaming... my dog had a puppy about a month ago, and i noticed her dreaming a few days after she was born. for those of you who don't know, puppies are naturally blind (and deaf) for the first couple of weeks--their eyelids remain shut while their eyes continue developing. she was very clearly dreaming: she was on her back, making small wimpering and tiny yipping noises while her body shook lightly, and her little legs kicked. thus, something that had never seen anything in the world--nor had really any experience at all (save for being in the womb) and lacked the capability to conceptualize just about anything that could possibly exist--was actually dreaming about something. she of course wasn't bereft of any sensations though, since she could smell and feel, so i'd imagine those two senses played a part in her dreams, perhaps also with various visual flashes that her brain 'could see.'
Wow!!!! Ice that is truly an interesting story!!! That might contradict most of the things that have been said throughout the whole conversation. If that is true, that is really amazing...
Evanescent: I said ask a blind person, not ask a blind person over the internet. You know you can actually related to people in other ways that aren't through a computer or a tv, you know? :roll:
Really...........I never knew that....Anyways i was just kidding.
Ok, I'm sorry I'm going to do this but I have to broaden the topic, at the moment people say dreams happen in the subconsious of a persons mind based on their experiences....try to keep an open mind for this comment now, what if it isn't created in your subconsious but only amplified there, what if they are thoughts/memories from past lives, or images and suggestions from higher "thingies" I'm not sure of a word appropriate for there. I remember reading an article on a website and the author believed we dreamt not in our minds but on a higher level of thinking, that links everyone (which can also help explain a little of shared dreams I think). I'm not sure what I am trying to say but I guessed its based on, If you can't do it in life, it doesn't mean you can't do it in dreams, I can't levitate in life, how can I feel what levitation is like in dreams, my mind creates the feeling, then can't the mind create a certain level of sight?
I have probally stated the whole thread in one post so ignore me if you find it repetative.
Think about levitating right now. Imagine it. How could you know? You cant. How can people in medieval times know? They can hardly imagine... You got a TV, and books. You DO KNOW. And you can imagine how.
Sorry to say, but I really do think all the higher plane things is bullcrap. I know some people believe otherwise, and I dont want to offend them or something, but it just doesnt make sense (IMO). Furthermore, I know how tricky your imagination can be in dreams, and if you think that some things 'might be true' they just might come true, in your imagination. If you dont know that your brain can trick you into believing those things, you might just think it IS real (Also talking about OBE's and people reading books about it etc and then everything happens as described, and perpetuate the lies). Another example is you're uncertain, and you think about a scary thing, and hey, there it appears... Easy mistakes to make, everything you can imagine is possible in an LD. And its hard to find out what is the truth and what is not.
indeed; and this is moot unless you've seen one. ;-)Quote:
whats stoping you from seeing a color you never saw before?[/b]
however, it is entirely reasonable for a blind person to have adequate spatial reasoning sense for a flying dream. the brain would map the remaining senses such as sound, heat, uprightness.. especially for ppl who swim for instance.