please some advice for mastering lucid dreaming

so I did my first attempt at lucid dreaming this night

a friend told me yesterday he tried it the night before, and he was fully rested with only 3 hours sleep, and had lucid dreams
so I wanted to try to


I already had lucid dreans a few times(weekend mornings, waking up at 8-9 and going back to sleep in a very light sleep in wich my thought and imagination channel into a dream, but very light and therefor short and the least noise woke me up)
also had sleep paralysis once(wojke up in the middle of the night, noticed I couldn't move but I could look around, nop hallucinations tough, and I never heard of sleep paralysis then, s it was a little scary, but I noticed th by relaxing and starting to move slowly like in quick sand I could regain control over my body)

the thechnique I used tonight turned out to be the WILD-technique after reading a bit about lucid dreaming today
but it didn't work, I laid there for an hour(from 0.00-1.00), perfectly still, the hardest part was trying to not actively breathe(also there was a mosquito flying around my head...), I felt my body going asleep, I felt the feeling going away from my body while my mind stayd fully active
but I never got into REM, I had a few times I thought I would enter REM soon(I saw some colorpatterns, with closed eyes, and I saw a 'button' I remember from when I was a child that I used to 'press' with my mind to get a dream), but I never got into it, and at 1.00 I couldn't ignore my impulse to swallow anymore, that fekt really weird, then I got up to go to the bathroom, walking around was very weird because my body was still partly asleep while my mind was fully awake
and if I touched my arm it was a little like when you accidently sat/laid on your arm and it's asleep and if you touch it it feels like it's not your arm

when I got back I made a last short attempt, but eventually I decided to go asleep normally

my guess is that I was not tired enough(I can stay awake for 2-3 days before getting really tired, going asleep normally takes me 20-30 min. , also bwecause I'm more of a evening/night person and when I have to go asleep I just begin to being more active, that's why I stay up a lot later in the weekends, and even then(4-5 am) I'm not really tired, just bored so I go asleep
and the friend who succeeded was awake for more then 24 hours when he tried it he told today
so any tips/advice on going to REM sooner?
(using another technique wouldn't be an option I think, since I rarely dream/remember my dream when I wake up, only once a half year or so, so this technique is perfect)

I was thinking about smoking some weed since that always gives an aftereffect(after about an hour) of being really sleepy/tired and after a night of smoking I fall asleep within a few minutes, but I don't know if I can keep my mind awake then?

p.s. sorry if my english is not perfect, I'm dutch and I learned most of my english from tv and reading/replying on english forums/sites(I'm 15 btw)

I hope you can help my, my next attempt will probably have to wait a few days since I have a lot of tests this week(especially tomorrow, maths and science, both I have to score well and are not my best subjects, especially maths)
but maybe I'll try tonight anyways, I really want to master it:cheeky:

First of all if you are new to lucid dreaming don't do WILD. Do an easier technique such as MILD or DILD. If you do a WILD, you need to sleep 4.5-6 hours first. This will put your body in the optimal state for WILD and you should be set for your longest REM period of the night. Your question is kind of long so a bit hard to follow, I would break them up into multiple questions in the future. WILDs take practice and anything distracting you such as a mosquito will keep you from relaxing your mind enough to induce a WILD.

There are tons of WILD tutorials that go into more detail. If you simply use MILD everytime you wake up you will find this much easier then trying to do a WILD and less work. WILD is great once you get the hand of things, otherwise it is the hardest technique to master. The key is relaxed mind and body. If you do it after waking up your body will already be relaxed as long as you don't move at all upon awakening.

You can't control when you go into REM, although when you nap you typically will enter REM immediately. Even if you do enter REM immediately when going to bed at night (i do sometimes, but biologically it will usually be an hour or more beforehand), this is your shortest REM period (only 10-15 minutes), so you are better to shoot for the longest (45 minss+) which is your last rem cycle.

the other techniques sound a lot harder to me, that's why I chose to go on with WILD(the relaxing wasn't that much of a problem, hardest was the breathing and the long waiting for something to happen), also I think WILD is a lot more fun, even my failed attempt last night was a unique experience, felt really relaxing, and also just awesome(altough it was a little boring too to lay there and do absolutly nothing)

MILD is the one with the reality checks right?
because that would be a lot more timeconsuming for me to master I think because I rarely remember dreams, am a little forgetful and it just seems to suck a little to me:cheeky:

I'll try to sleep 6 hours first next time, maybe that'll help, thx
also I still want to try my idea for using the weed-aftereffect

sorry that it was a little long story, I can be a little wordy sometimes:cheeky:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djonkoman

the other techniques sound a lot harder to me, that's why I chose to go on with WILD(the relaxing wasn't that much of a problem, hardest was the breathing and the long waiting for something to happen), also I think WILD is a lot more fun, even my failed attempt last night was a unique experience, felt really relaxing, and also just awesome(altough it was a little boring too to lay there and do absolutly nothing)

MILD is the one with the reality checks right?
because that would be a lot more timeconsuming for me to master I think because I rarely remember dreams, am a little forgetful and it just seems to suck a little to me:cheeky:

I'll try to sleep 6 hours first next time, maybe that'll help, thx
also I still want to try my idea for using the weed-aftereffect

sorry that it was a little long story, I can be a little wordy sometimes:cheeky:

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MILD is just repeating a hypnotic suggestion such as "The Next Time I'm Dreaming I Will Recognize that I'm Dreaming". Just repeat this over and over each time you wake up. DILD takes forever to get results sometimes and is the one that uses the reality checks. Reality checks are an important skill though because you will have way more lucids this way than you would otherwise. They simply supplement other techniques. WEED will cause you to dream less because it suppresses REM sleep. It is not necessary and will make it harder in my opinion since you have less time in REM. Caffeine and alcohol have the same suppressant effect.

With WILD you almost want to fall asleep and try to fall asleep but trusting that by repeating a phrase you will maintain consciousness. When I stopped focusing on my body relaxing and analyzing sensations and everyting that is going on and focused on going to sleep instead I started to see success. Don't let your mind fall away from the phrase you are repeating or you will fall asleep but if you are not at risk of falling asleep then your mind is not relaxed enough.

the getting my body to sleep wasn't the problem, the problem was that I didn't go in REM, probably because I wasn't tired (enough)
I think thinking of a phrase wouldn't help much for me since I will still think of other things also
this nght I just let my mind wander on normal things I think of before going to sleep(since it always takes me 20-30 min of laying still to get asleep, the only difference this time was that I kept my mind awake and kept my body completely still, the first 30 min. I didn't even blink(kept my eyes closed))

I heard you can make yourself more tired by holding your arms above your head while laying in bed?

also I will change my covers, last night I had it very hot and sweat a lot, so I'll change to my summercovers(sheet with blanket)

btw, does WILD work with music on? (ipod)
since that would be the perfect distraction, and it relaxes me(when I really can't sleep I always put on music for 30 min. and then I can always sleep)
only risk would be that I have to stay still and don't tap along with the music with my fingers
and it would also be awesome to have music in my dream:p

p.s. I know I was close, a lot of interesting sensations/feelings, and the feeling was already away from my body, I got a little pressure on my chest, and rush/rustle/noise inside my head, and a few times I began seeing some colorred patterns/wavy lines, but it didn't set trough

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djonkoman

the getting my body to sleep wasn't the problem, the problem was that I didn't go in REM, probably because I wasn't tired (enough)
I think thinking of a phrase wouldn't help much for me since I will still think of other things also
this nght I just let my mind wander on normal things I think of before going to sleep(since it always takes me 20-30 min of laying still to get asleep, the only difference this time was that I kept my mind awake and kept my body completely still, the first 30 min. I didn't even blink(kept my eyes closed))

I heard you can make yourself more tired by holding your arms above your head while laying in bed?

also I will change my covers, last night I had it very hot and sweat a lot, so I'll change to my summercovers(sheet with blanket)

btw, does WILD work with music on? (ipod)
since that would be the perfect distraction, and it relaxes me(when I really can't sleep I always put on music for 30 min. and then I can always sleep)
only risk would be that I have to stay still and don't tap along with the music with my fingers
and it would also be awesome to have music in my dream:p

p.s. I know I was close, a lot of interesting sensations/feelings, and the feeling was already away from my body, I got a little pressure on my chest, and rush/rustle/noise inside my head, and a few times I began seeing some colorred patterns/wavy lines, but it didn't set trough

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I still think your biggest issue is trying to do it upon going to bed. Your body isn't ready to enter REM at this point. Very few people are able to induce WILDs when going to bed. Most everyone else does it after 6 hours. If you are getting rushing noises then you just need to wait it out. I personally skip right over this and go directly into a dream after experiencing a spinning motion, but most people do go through a vibration and rushiing noise phase.

Listening to music varies from person to person. It helps some people and keeps others awake. For me I can't fall asleep at all with music on, but if it relaxes you and doesn't distract you then it might be helpful. I think most of the time it will keep your mind too active though. You should experiment and see what works best. Some people spend months having their first WILD. It took me about 5 attempts or so.

The music can carryover into your dream. It's really all about what your unconscious mind decides to do. Some people tend to incorporate external stimuli more than others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djonkoman

I rarely remember dreams, am a little forgetful and it just seems to suck a little to me:cheeky:

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Here is a major issue on your plot. Dream recall is a must for lucid dreams. You might have already several lucid dreams and you do not recall them. For what you said, you might be a natural talented lucid dreamer, but you still need to work on the basics.

I have the same problem / blessing. I had several lucid dreams with full control in the past (and with past I mean since toddler) However, my dream recall is not near perfect, and it needs to be perfect for lucid dreaming properly.

During this last seven days, one day I had no dream recall at all, two days I knew I was dreaming but failed to recall (but I remember the sensation so its some sort of recall) one day I recalled 1 dream, one day I recalled 2 dreams and two more days I recalled 3 dreams on each day. That's a total of 9 dreams recalled in full, 2 dream almost recalled and one whole night without remembering a thing. Think that you will need to at least recall 1-2 dreams each night.... as we have at least 5-6 dreams per night. That's 35-42 dreams a week, from which I only recalled 9 in full and 2 partially. The minimum recommended is about 14-15 dreams per week (1-2 per day with a maximum of 1 day without recall, and still needs improvement)

I'm on my way to archive it, and I've been not using any help from the outside (such as an alarm clock) only with natural wakening and of course, a dream journal. So think you will need to improve greatly your dream recall, I know you are willing to LD. Trust me, I know very well what it feels and how awesome is it... but you need to do those steps first. If you have no wife to bother, it's even better, as you might set your alarm clock and wake up during a REM, then write down everything, go to the bathroom and go back to bed. You will trigger a WBTB which might trigger a lucid dream, and you can even try a WILD so you will have WBTB+WILD... but of course... you might forget the lucid with such a low recall you said you have.

because of my low recall I want to go on with WILD, since from this first experience I noticed I was fully awake in my mind, so hopefully that will lead to good recall too
I have now 2 experiments planned, one time try to wake up at night(altough I fear my mind isn't clear enough then, I already can barely get up in the morning, and I'm famous for being always late at school)
and the other with music to keep me un-bored(and to distract my attention from the breathing) during the long waiting period by WILD with going to bed, music always relaxes me and makes my mind empty so it should be okay, maybe not use my fastest music(powermetal) altough that relaxes me too, think I'm going to try with AC/DC first, or maybe manowar
and friday I can try with weed since I'm going to smoke with some friends friday anyway

I have indeed no wife to disturb with an alarm, but I have a very light-sleeping mother in the room next door who always awakens by the sound of my alarm

AC/DC for WILDing :lol::lol:

I would use something like devi prayer... a hypnotic song I have...excellent to meditate, I love rock and heavy metal, but is the last think I would use for WILDing :panic:

Actually, is on amazon mp3

http://www.amazon.com/Devi-Prayer/dp/B0013FOEGW

I don't like slow music:cheeky:
especially hypnotic/meditation music, and music I don't like has a negative effect on me, while music I like(like AC/DC) has a positive effect on me and relaxes me

I found last night it worked very good with AC/DC, the waiting became very bareable, and it distracted me enough from the breathing, and it worked great for relaxing, it exceeded my expectations
altough I still didn't come in REM, but I came very close: I felt strong vibrations, when breathing i felt like my chest expanded to the size of a skippy ball, I saw some collor patterns with my eyes closed, and a view times I felt like being sucked into my matress into a dream but it never went that far that I actually came in a dream(again I laid still from 0.00-1.15, then a small break because again I swallowed, then a small try untill 1.40 and then I gave up and went to sleep normally)
therefor I'm trying with waking up at night this night

but I discovered one very big gain from my attempts: I can smell a lot better today
normally I only smell strong smells, and even that not sometimes, only sometimes I have 'clear-smell' periods that I can smell more for 15-a few hours

yesterday I already had the feeling I smelled a little more, but today the difference was clearly, I could smell far more this morning, and on my bike I even smelled a man smoking a cigarette around 20 metres in front of me

when drinking my daily energy drink during recess at school it tasted a lot better, and I noticed I could smell it, I then mentioned that to a friend, the same friend that is also trying WILD, and he said that he also noticed that he could smell better but hadn't thought of the link between it and the WILD-attempt untill I mentioned it

so a not expected positive side-effect:cheeky:

so I've not done a serious wild attempt for a while(only a few half-ass attempts, but I keep falling asleep after a while laying now, especially the time I tried it with first 5 hours sleep and then waking up, but now even with just sdoing it right away, probably too because I have vacation so I now go to sleep around 4 pm)
but this morning I had my first full ld, as I told before I had a few in the mornings before, but always in a light sleep and I still could feel mty body lying on the bed too, but this morning I had a full lucid dream, only a bit short
but just enough time to shoot fire from my finger
I'm planning on trying wild again this night, and if I get a ld I want to try teleporting too, and that fire-power that one from the fantastic four has(flying hasn't such a high priority for me since I've already flewn once in a regular dream so I already now I can do that)

The best advice I can give you for mastering lucid dreaming is practice. That's the only way you're going to get any better. Different techniques work for different people, so experiment until you find the one that's right for you. Write your dreams down and reality check consistently. It sounds like you're already making progress. ^^

hi dutch bloke, its up to you wether you want to try some weed to get you in the right mood, personally i dont think it will help. im a fairly hard drinker but i found i get my lucid dreams most reliably and reguraly in the mornings when im sober. the thing i think is good about that is that you will know yourself that it wasnt just a trip. and i think you will find when it happens you will have more control. all the best

WILD isn't necessarily that hard, you just gotta loosen up a bit.
It's okay to swallow, just don't think about it much. Plus it's not that bad to move, because the goal in WILDing is ultimately to fall asleep. You move multiple times before falling asleep anyway. Get comfortable and relax. Try to fall asleep as normal, just "anchor" your awareness on something so your mind doesn't fall asleep too.
Don't be afraid to experiment and try what you think will work, not what others tell you. Absorb as much information as possible about WILDing and try to develop your own technique with stuff that works for you. Because everybody's minds are different, what works for others may not work for you.
Practice and consistency is also important. Good luck!

I don't move that much when going to sleep anyway(sometmes when it takes long I switch from back to side, but I always have a hard time getting my pillow just right so if it's right I don't want to destroy that anymore)

last night was a total failure but at the same time a big succes
I managed to lay still without pause for the longest till now(2 hours), but on all other things it was a total failure, I only got a little bit being sucked into the matress(other times I got it multiple times and very heavy, and with vibrations, feeling like my chest expanded a lot etc), no patterns, and I remember my night was very, very weird, but I can't remember anything about it and can't remember why it was so weird, I only know I didn't get a LD, and that their wasn't a specific reason it was weird(just weird, not negative, not positive either, but compared to my previous experiences negative, since they were all very positive and relaxing, whuile this time I woke up in the morning feeling more tired as usual)
I do remember seeing the little bit of light next to my curtain(but now I think of it, I can't remember if that was with eyes open or closed, but I guess open since I did a RC shortly after it just to be sure) but that something about it was really werd, but it had something to do with me, the things I saw didn't look weird, but in some way eerything had something weird to it, I can't explain it, i can't even understand it myself now
I know that after that first break I tried it again, but I have no idea when I gave up or fell into a normal sleep, only that my attempts lasted for a big part of the night and that I woke up this morning from a normal sleep

only difference with other attempts was that I repeated a mantra a few times this time(2 different mantra's, most important one was, translated, 'my mind is staying awake this time' since I fell into nomal sleeop during my attempts in the vacation, and the less important one was 'I'm succeeding at ld this night')

but I'm trying again this night


btw, @eminator, I think the laying perfectly still forms a good anchor for my mind for me, since a normal phase of me going to sleep is my mind wandering off and thinking about random stuff, just before going to sleep is also on of the 2-3 moments a day I come up with the most and best ideas, plans and solutions to problems I have, and do the most general thinking(for example what's wrong with society, what's wrong with the big organised religions, and other sort like stuff)(the other moments being during driving to school/home on my bike with music on)
so just thinking about something wouldn't work even then my mind wanders off, and I wouldn't want to sacrifice my big thinkingmoment if I could
and the thinking makes the waiting during my WILD-attemptst bareable too

today I had an epiphany:
I'm atempting WILD at the wrong moments
I tried it now with staying up a little longer hoping to get more tired(1.00 hour instead of 0.00) on schooldays, I tried it with 5 hours sleep fist on a schoolday wich was a total failure, and I tried it when going to bed in the vacation(4-6 am)

but today I realised the reason why the method with a few hours leep first doesn't work for me
it's not that the rule just doesn't aply to me as I thought first(my first assumption because I'm weird and a lot of things people say don't work for me, some things hysically, like 3d movies, but also more psychological things like repeating words from other languages to learn them)
it's that how the rule is stated in all tutorials I read is missing a part: only if you're in your natural sleeping pattern
for most people this wouldn't matter, since for most people their sleeping pattern on workdays is close enough to their natural sleeping pattern, but for me that clarifies a lot
my natural sleeping pattern is go to sleep at 4-6 am, and awaken at 12-1, then stay in bed watching tv or go back to sleep till 2 pm(sometimes also not waking up at 12-1, depends on how many noise my parents make, since I sleep very light at that time)
my sleeping pattern on days I have to go to scheel is going asleep at 23-0 hour(wich always results in falling asleep after 0 hour) and waking up at 7, still very sleepy, and trying to get up for school wich takes 15-30 minutes, and often results in being late for school(even with 8-9 hours of sleep being sleepy and tired, against being fully rested after 6-7 hours ion the weekends and vacations, if I sleep longer then 9 hours in weekends and vacations it even results in feeling worse and feeling overslept)

now looking at the LD's I've had so far(all spontanious, not induced)
last one, the best so far(short but vivid and without feeling my real body in bed)
was in the vacation, after a night of normal sleep, woke up at 12, went back to sleep and had the LD
I went to sleep a little before 6 am that night, conclusion: first 6 hours of sleep, then spontanious LD, little similar to wgbtb
my previous LD's I had: when I was younger my sleep pattern was a little less extreme, usually asleep at 2 am, waking first up at 8 and going back to sleep untill 10-11, then watch tv till 1
and again, that LD's happened after the waking up at 8, 6 hours after going to sleep

but this also means that WILD will be impossible for me on workdays... except if I look at the other, less used time to WILD: in the middle of the day
a little calculation gives 10 PM as my middle of the day, wich also equals with my peak of clarity and activity, wich starts to rise the most after 11, leading to a peak in awareness, clarity and awakeness between 0 and 3, descending after that leading to a low between 5-6 when I go to sleep

this gives me the information that the perfect WILD-moments are at the moments between the peaks and lows of clarity:
to clear leads to what I had when doing it at 0 hour: keeping mind awake is very easy, going into SP(or at least the first stages)is very easy, no risk at falling asleep, patterns etc, but never getting into REM
the result at doing it at a low is what I experienced doing it after a few hours of sleep and doing it right when going to sleep in the vacation: falling into normal sleep

so the tutorials are perfect for normal people, but for people with extreme sleeping patterns and extreme sleep behaviour it needs some tweeking

so this night I'll try it at 10, and then in the weekends I can just use the night WILD-moment

ok, turns out sleeping earlier wasn´t the best idea ever...
I was a little later(22.30), fell into a normal sleep, and was the first 2 hours of school really hyperactive(and unfortunatly for the people around me I get really annoying then, but normalle I´m rarely hyperactive, most of the time I´m slow, so the opposite, but now I know that my chronic sleep deprivation probably is the cause of that, of course together with my weird times of most awakeness-activity)

I tried going to sleep earlier before(to get easier out of bed in the morning and don´t be late at school every day anymore, but this time I was still late and still couldn´t get out of bed, but when i was I git hyperactive)
but I never succeeded, I just laid awake longer and fell asleep at the same time as normal or only 10 minutes earlier

but it turns out I AM able to fall asleep earlier when attempting WILD:P
(but I am curious what would happen if I sleep even longer, when I´m already this hyperactive when sleeping 8,5 hours instead of 7 hours...altough this doesn´t happen in the weekends-vacations when I´ve slept longer before too)

I once hadn't slept the entire night, but then fell asleep next day at about 5 PM. It was one of the only times that I woke up because I wasn't tired anymore, not because something woke me up. I woke at 4 AM feeling totally refreshed. Since it was still night, I decided to try to WILD. It was amazing, because it was very successful - I went in to a lucid dream almost immediately.

I wen researching a bit and discovered I was just forgetting a step:P
I came stuck just before transition my first 2 attempts, turns out I should've used an anchor then...
but last night I fell asleep again, I hope it works beter tonight

I remembered 2 dreams tonight, so I'm startingf a dreamjournal after all(reason I didn't was because I only dream once a half year or so so I would've to wait too long for one to happen)
I did woke up after the first 1 btw(not in the dream, but a little later, but remebering up to 3-4 dreams in one night has happened before without waking up in between, but it's just only one night a half year I rememberr anything)
and I thought a bit about it, and I think I maybe know why I fortget almost all my dreams
when I was younger my recall was a lot better, but a few years back I had a few things of wich I couldn't remmber if it really happened or only in a dream, so maybe I started blocking them out from then to prevent that(since it was annoying, telling someone something that happened to my once and then thinking o no, that was just a dream)
anyway, I'll write my 2 dreams of tonight down and I'll add a few past dreams I still remember(mostly where something special happened)

Wow, you're pretty good at this.. i've been tyring to LD for a few weeks, but i have NO idea where to start. I do remember my first attempt at whatever ILD *idk any of the acronyms* i laid in bed for about an hour and if elt my body sink and i started seeing crazy shit but then i needed to swallow or move or twitch or something.. then it completely went away and i got kinda upset so i slept normally. I've been too lazy to stay up and try this recently, but i HAVE recalled more dreams than i used to. I havven't been able to keep a dream journal, but since i'm on summer break, i'll beable to wake up in the morning and write down my dreams easier cause i'll have nothing to do.

then you're aound as far as I was, I just had the luck having a few spontanious LD's

now I finally made some progress, had an unintentional WILD(only a few seconds tough) last night(couldn't sleep), and an OBE as an extra:p (more info in my dreamjournal I started recently)
but I'm jealous for you already having summer vacation, I still need to go to school a few months...(I guess you're american, in that case I'm also jealous you have vacation for 4 months while I only have 7 weeks...)

I've been having some crazy what feels like lucid dreams cause i remember them semi vividly, but i'm don't remember actually doing anything other than watching my dream. Aren't i supposed to beable to control the dream or what not?
But anyway, yeah im at a university in California running on semester system, so we have a huge 3 or so month break for summer. It's pretty awesome, though i'm supposed to take summer school to catchup on my work but i decided to take this summer off and relax a little :banana:

Please do not be offended at my answer.
Let us suppose that a lucid dream is a conversation. Certainly one desires to master their attention during a conversation, but do they believe that they can master, or be master of a conversation? As in all languages, one should be concerned with attention span and developing the ability to understand. One important thing about conversations, it is a two way street--each party has a desire, a will and an agenda. Soimetimes we forget that.