Thread: Do you guys believe in destiny?

I kind of have my own idea of destiny.

-Each life has several destinies.
-There are different types of destinies.
---Stone (Life, growth, death)
---Water (Wealth, health, love, hate)
-Stone destinies are beyond your control. They are your only "true" destiny.
-Water Destinies can be changed, and manipulated, temporarily.

Stone destiny can not be avoided. Obvious examples are life, growth, and death. But, depending on the person and the circumstances, certain water destinies can become stone for either a time, or permanently.

Wealth is a water destiny... you can create ripples and splashes. But eventually the surface returns to it's original state. A flat, calm, evenly reflective surface. However, different scenarios mean that a water destiny (wealth) may be stone for some. Meaning they have no effect on said destiny.

No, not at all. We're in charge of our own lives.

You already asked this exact same question.

And no, destiny is balls. Get real.

What is your fascination with others' opinions on how future events are formed?

Being that this is the second thread you've made on the exact same topic, I can't help but wonder if you're seeking, perhaps, confirmation of your own beliefs?

All right, you win. You win. I give. I'll say it. I'll say it. I'll say it. DESTINY! DESTINY! NO ESCAPING THAT FOR ME! DESTINY! DESTINY! NO ESCAPING THAT FOR ME!

Your life is mapped out.

Destiny... I think I know a stripper by that name...

There was actually a girl in my school named Destiny.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

What is your fascination with others' opinions on how future events are formed?

Being that this is the second thread you've made on the exact same topic, I can't help but wonder if you're seeking, perhaps, confirmation of your own beliefs?

All right, you win. You win. I give. I'll say it. I'll say it. I'll say it. DESTINY! DESTINY! NO ESCAPING THAT FOR ME! DESTINY! DESTINY! NO ESCAPING THAT FOR ME!

Relax, I'm just curious. After all it is the lounge section, I can ask whatever I want. You guys don't have to respond. I was just curious.

Originally Posted by ld411

Relax, I'm just curious. After all it is the lounge section, I can ask whatever I want. You guys don't have to respond. I was just curious.

No worries. I just wanted to quote Young Frankenstein.

I believe in free will, in that whatever decisions our brains come to are the decisions WE came to since we are basically our brains. Just because we know that our brains are just synapses and such doesn't mean we have no choices. Those synapses are our choices. Somehow, understanding why something is the way it is invalidates that thing to some people. I don't get that.

In spite of that, determinism is pretty obvious. Everything that happens happens because something else caused it. A tree falls because a lumberjack hit it. A tree will never just fall. Cause and effect, cause and effect. If I rewound the clock of the universe and played last year over again with no variations- it would run exactly the same every single time. So if someone knew all fo the variables, they could predict every event that will happen in the future ever. I guess you could call that destiny in that we are 'fated' to take certain actions. I don't prefer to call it destiny myself but one could.

(I apparantly missed out on the last destiny conversation. ):)

As Franklin said, "The only sure things in life are death and taxes"

I believe that you can choose your own destiny and you strive for that. I'm sure many people have made many destinies

With that, I agree with the #2 post by Mindwanderer. There are some things that are out of our control, and there are others that ARE in our control

To those of you talking about free will etc. Free will isn't necessarily free. To the person making the choice, it seems that it was their choice... but what if you were meant to make that choice?

The problem is that 'destiny' cannot be proved or disproved. One could argue that every choice they made was their own, and one could argue that every choice they've made was meant to be made by some "high power" (destiny perhaps?).

So.... it can't be proved or disproved. Destiny is as real as you make it. If you want to believe that you're powerless and every choice is predetermined, then you can. However, you can believe the opposite and be no more right or wrong?

Originally Posted by spockman

I believe in free will, in that whatever decisions our brains come to are the decisions WE came to since we are basically our brains. Just because we know that our brains are just synapses and such doesn't mean we have no choices. Those synapses are our choices. Somehow, understanding why something is the way it is invalidates that thing to some people. I don't get that.

In spite of that, determinism is pretty obvious. Everything that happens happens because something else caused it. A tree falls because a lumberjack hit it. A tree will never just fall. Cause and effect, cause and effect. If I rewound the clock of the universe and played last year over again with no variations- it would run exactly the same every single time. So if someone knew all fo the variables, they could predict every event that will happen in the future ever. I guess you could call that destiny in that we are 'fated' to take certain actions. I don't prefer to call it destiny myself but one could.

(I apparantly missed out on the last destiny conversation. ):)

To expand on this, if one accepts that thoughts are the sole product of the human mind, then we know those thoughts are caused by ions jumping the synapse to deliver a message. Well, what put those ions there? A series of interactions with subatomic particles on a predictable course. A person basically makes a decision when their brain interprets an electrochemical message. I suppose this could be considered destiny of a sort, provided it is true and humans do not somehow have the power to alter atoms and molecules from their predictable courses set in motion from past interactions, but for all practical intents, it is best to assume destiny is false and that humans are, in fact, in charge of their own decisions.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

To those of you talking about free will etc. Free will isn't necessarily free. To the person making the choice, it seems that it was their choice... but what if you were meant to make that choice?

The problem is that 'destiny' cannot be proved or disproved. One could argue that every choice they made was their own, and one could argue that every choice they've made was meant to be made by some "high power" (destiny perhaps?).

So.... it can't be proved or disproved. Destiny is as real as you make it. If you want to believe that you're powerless and every choice is predetermined, then you can. However, you can believe the opposite and be no more right or wrong?

This can be equated to the ending of the one episode of Futurama where Bender meets God

Ending of that episode. Highlight for spoiler
Fry says the monks will pray to their God and their God will free them from the laundry closet. But Bender says that "You can't count on God for jack!" Zoom out to "God" "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." So by telling Bender certain things, Bender seems to act selflessly on his own, when it was God who actually put the idea there. So God actually carried out his work through an unknowing Bender

More on that ep here: Godfellas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

To those of you talking about free will etc. Free will isn't necessarily free. To the person making the choice, it seems that it was their choice... but what if you were meant to make that choice?

The problem is that 'destiny' cannot be proved or disproved. One could argue that every choice they made was their own, and one could argue that every choice they've made was meant to be made by some "high power" (destiny perhaps?).

So.... it can't be proved or disproved. Destiny is as real as you make it. If you want to believe that you're powerless and every choice is predetermined, then you can. However, you can believe the opposite and be no more right or wrong?

But why would us being 'meant' to make a choice distance us from that choice? It would still be one persons minds acting in a certain way, right?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Destiny... I think I know a stripper by that name...

Originally Posted by slayer

There was actually a girl in my school named Destiny.

Originally Posted by ld411

Title says it all

Yes and no. Destiny does not allow room for freewill. Likewise, freewill does not allow room for destiny.

There are those in life who are floaters. Floaters just drift through life. This would be fate and/or destiny. Then, there are those who take control of their lives and don't float through life. They take action and build it. This would be freewill.

I believe people have a choice of placing life on auto pilot, which they also have the choice of piloting it themselves. Life is easier on auto pilot, but not as rewarding.

Are you a floater? I would say a large majority of the populace are.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, but are mutually inclusive.

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

Yes and no. Destiny does not allow room for freewill. Likewise, freewill does not allow room for destiny.

Eh, I would disagree. See above post for why.

Originally Posted by spockman

Eh, I would disagree. See above post for why.

Reading the rest of my post, I said the exact same thing. They are mutually inclusive. What if you are fated to disobey and alter fate? I believe it is possible for someone to know the variables, predicting events that will happen in the future. If it were done even once in someone's life, they have changed fate. Not just their own, but everyone's.

If everything possible that could ever happen, has already happened, where does that leave fate? Fate exists until freewill is exercised.

I think the world is going in some direction it will get there with or without you. You (variable) can change a few things in your radius of actions and effects, the world will adapt and move towards (what?) I don't know. I call it the universal will. Your destiny is the consequences of your actions + the universal will.

Can you really choose to make actions and control a part of your destiny? Depends if you believe in free will.

I don't think it's possible to prove that we have free will yet because we are only conscious (experiencing) in one stream of reality. Every decision routs this one stream. But there are more streams, as many as the choices we have. We don't know how to experience the other streams yet.

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

Reading the rest of my post, I said the exact same thing. They are mutually inclusive. What if you are fated to disobey and alter fate? I believe it is possible for someone to know the variables, predicting events that will happen in the future. If it were done even once in someone's life, they have changed fate. Not just their own, but everyone's.

If everything possible that could ever happen, has already happened, where does that leave fate? Fate exists until freewill is exercised.

But if we 'discover' some of the variables in our life, we did so only because those same variables caused us to discover them in the first place. The path of the future will never change. Just because one may be able to see their path more clearly does not mean that they have more freedom to escape it. However, I do not think that this negates choice.

This relates to the model of determinisim.

We make our own destinies. I believe the end result of our life is our true destiny, whether true free will exists or if our destiny is just a product of environmental factors. Either way, destiny does exist. Depends on how you view destiny.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

I kind of have my own idea of destiny.

-Each life has several destinies.
-There are different types of destinies.
---Stone (Life, growth, death)
---Water (Wealth, health, love, hate)
-Stone destinies are beyond your control. They are your only "true" destiny.
-Water Destinies can be changed, and manipulated, temporarily.

Stone destiny can not be avoided. Obvious examples are life, growth, and death. But, depending on the person and the circumstances, certain water destinies can become stone for either a time, or permanently.

Wealth is a water destiny... you can create ripples and splashes. But eventually the surface returns to it's original state. A flat, calm, evenly reflective surface. However, different scenarios mean that a water destiny (wealth) may be stone for some. Meaning they have no effect on said destiny.

I sorta believe this too