Open Relationships

There's nothing wrong with dating more than one person to just date and see who you like before getting into a serious relationship. However, once I'm in a relationship with someone I like it to be just between the two of us.

In sociology today we were JUST talking about this; how in pre-agrarian hunter/gatherer groups, it was very common for a woman to have multiple "partners" at once since men were favored more and were therefore more abundant.

Men, after the horticultural revolution, held multiple wives. Strict monogamy is, relatively speaking, a "new" idea. Sure, 500 years may seem like a long time to some of us, but it's the blink of an eye compared to the amount of time human beings have roamed the Earth. We're used to monogamy because that's how we're raised, methinks.

I'm looking for two women in shared dreaming attempts, this is an open relationship that I can get used to. c:

Open relationships seem like a good idea. If it works for some people, that's cool. I personally don't understand it. When I'm with someone in any sense, even if it's really casual, just physical, or really serious, I don't want to share them with someone else. I don't want anyone else in my life at the same time either. For me, it's like eating dinner and dessert at the same time. I want to be able to enjoy a person thoroughly and only them, and I want to be experienced in the same way. If we want something else, it's time to move on from each other and find something new.

I was mostly speaking from a casual "relationship" perspective..I can't even fathom open relationships in the context of serious relationships where people love each other. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Again, if it works for people, it works for them. But me..definitely not. The idea of my partner being with someone else, in the physical or emotional sense, really irks me. And it also irks me to think about me being with someone else.

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Originally Posted by Cacophony

There's nothing wrong with dating more than one person to just date and see who you like before getting into a serious relationship. However, once I'm in a relationship with someone I like it to be just between the two of us.

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if you did that to me I would hurt you

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Originally Posted by saltyseedog

if you did that to me I would hurt you

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To love someone is to bear the risk of hatred :therethere:

Fuck no.

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Originally Posted by Xox

For me, it's like eating dinner and dessert at the same time.

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You say that like it's a bad thing. Haven't you ever had ice cream for supper? I fully recommend it.

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Originally Posted by ♥Mark

You say that like it's a bad thing. Haven't you ever had ice cream for supper? I fully recommend it.

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I mean eating steak with a side of ice creaming. Bites of cake in between bites of pork chops. You know. Not my cup of tea ;)

^ That actually sounds kind of good. If the pork chops were spicy enough and the cake was ice-cream cake, it'd be a good contrast of flavors imo.

/off-topic

Not spicy, and maybe bacon instead of pork chops. Then I think it would actually be nice.

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Originally Posted by Marvo

Please don't try to pretend that I am being degrading towards open relationships. I perfectly understand what it is, and I have nowhere in my posts indicated that what you just wrote was what I understood as an open relationship.

But how can you say that? How can you know that? Maturity isn't something that you measure on a scale. Maturity has nothing to do with this. This has to do with preferences. For you, it makes you feel better, that you can allow your loved one to love others. You feel like a better person for having that capacity.

As I explained earlier, in a relationship, I want to be everything that person needs. I want to feel adequate, that I enrich that person's life, and I want that to be mutual. If I suddenly stop being adequate, I become jealous, because I am suddenly not enough anymore, I am not good enough for that person. And that makes me sad, jealous.
If my partner left me, I would feel sad. I would feel like a part of what defines me has left me, because that person was indeed a part of my life. I cannot imagine how you would move away from these feelings in a relationship, without a lot of sacrifice, sacrifices that I wouldn't be willing to accept.


I moved this to the bottom of the post, because I felt it was the most important part of your post.
From what you are saying, it is very understandable that you see your self as a more developed/mature person, because you initially saw your stance towards relationships as a weakness, something that was worse. Personally, I think it's just as mature to accept this insecurity as a part of you and not an insecurity, rather than struggling with it, in order to prove to yourself that you are a better person. You are laying down arbitrary lines and criteria that you want to attain. Your premise is that reaching these criteria and living by them, makes you a better person, a more mature person. This is, in my opinion, a bad way to go about your life and understanding and developing your own personality. Again, I draw lines to bisexuality and homo/heterosexuality. Bisexuality is, by your line of thought, a more mature orientation. I don't agree with that.

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I haven't developed anything. I still wonder if I could handle an open relationship. I still get jealous and clingy in all sorts of ways. I still wonder if I'll be used and disposed of. I still have a feeling inside of me like I need this person. I still have heart ache. I still feel a need for intimacy. I still feel dread about the future. I am seriously in over my head, with all the emotional problems I'd be facing if I were dealing with a monogamous relationship. I'm simply not taking these problems out on my partner. I'm not justifying my insecurity as a symptom of really caring. I'm using my insecurity as a reminder that I can cling to nothing, that all is an impermanent fixture. I am accepting for myself the reminder that I can depend on nothing and must still find happiness through my own, personal ability to enjoy the simple things and take life one day at a time. This is the criteria I'm judging maturity on. I find maturity marked by ones ability to take responsibility for their life, release imaginary weight and not allow themselves to pushed about by every gust of wind. It's as arbitrary as any other definition of maturity, but I see it only as arbitrary as the difference between a child and an adult. I think eventually one simply needs to learn how to let go, and it can take a short time or a long time but it doesn't change the fact that letting go of attachment to what you think makes you happy is a necessary step toward becoming a happy and rich individual.

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Originally Posted by Wayfaerer

The thing is we're not made that way, monogamous relationships are at least largely culturally induced. Everyone is uniquely incomplete from perfect, with their own pros and cons. It's inevitable that other people are going to have attractive qualities that aren't in your partner, but that doesn't mean you should leave that person, or not strictly keep the other people at a friend/acquaintance level.

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but you're not leaving them, you're taking on more than one person in a relationship.

can work, are not impossible, and certainly not "greedy."
I've seen multiple polyamorous relationships work well for years, most only ending because of personal incompatibilities, not because of the format of the relationship.

if you're not into it, don't do it.

I should clarify actually.

By "Fuck no", I meant I don't want to be in an open relationship.
Everyone else can do whatever the fuck they want. Unless they're in a relationship with me :lol:

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Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I haven't developed anything. I still wonder if I could handle an open relationship. I still get jealous and clingy in all sorts of ways. I still wonder if I'll be used and disposed of. I still have a feeling inside of me like I need this person. I still have heart ache. I still feel a need for intimacy. I still feel dread about the future. I am seriously in over my head, with all the emotional problems I'd be facing if I were dealing with a monogamous relationship. I'm simply not taking these problems out on my partner. I'm not justifying my insecurity as a symptom of really caring. I'm using my insecurity as a reminder that I can cling to nothing, that all is an impermanent fixture. I am accepting for myself the reminder that I can depend on nothing and must still find happiness through my own, personal ability to enjoy the simple things and take life one day at a time. This is the criteria I'm judging maturity on. I find maturity marked by ones ability to take responsibility for their life, release imaginary weight and not allow themselves to pushed about by every gust of wind. It's as arbitrary as any other definition of maturity, but I see it only as arbitrary as the difference between a child and an adult. I think eventually one simply needs to learn how to let go, and it can take a short time or a long time but it doesn't change the fact that letting go of attachment to what you think makes you happy is a necessary step toward becoming a happy and rich individual.

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I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree with your philosophy of staying clear of unknowns. I would rather love a person and then later be hurt, than never have had that original love at all.

Then I disagree with your definition of love. Possessiveness is not love. It's insecurity. You can love someone just as much as you would in a monogamous relationship, you simply can't own them.

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Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Then I disagree with your definition of love. Possessiveness is not love. It's insecurity. You can love someone just as much as you would in a monogamous relationship, you simply can't own them.

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You make some very interesting assumptions. I feel hurt because a person, who I love, doesn't love me as much as I love him/her. Not because I don't "own" that person anymore. To be more precise, I give that person my love, but they don't feel the same way. I'm not angry with them though, it just means I'm not what they wanted. I feel hurt because I wasn't what that person wanted. I still lose something, but it was something that was worth having. This is not immature, egotistical, or possesive. This is just a way that some people work. Personally, I couldn't live with jealousy, and forcing myself to live with it, in order to 'rise above it', is not something I believe in. Having sex with someone of the same gender won't make you homosexual. Having an open relationship won't make you polygamous.

First of all I'm talking about polyamory, polygamy is something different. Secondly, I don't see how being in an open relationship means the person loves you less or you love them less. That, to me, is a bad assumption. I am cultivating 2 relationships right now and neither one of them are flings. Flings are forbidden in my polyamorous relationship because everyone needs to be able to trust each other and approve the other people invited into the relationship. It's not like I'm free to just go to the bar and fuck somebody. My penis is still tied down in that sense. But I can meet people, flirt with people and take things slow.

I am utterly serious about both of these girls and my intentions are to have real relationships with each of them. One of the girls happens to be polyamorous and she introduced me to the concept, and she's already married and has a boyfriend but we like each other so we're cultivating that affection and seeing what it evolves into. That doesn't mean she's less interested in the other relationships she's already in. It simply means she's interested in me as well. And just because I'm also cultivating a relationship other than her doesn't mean I'm any less interested in her. It simply means I am still capable of finding people attractive and compatible. These are all real relationships, and just because they're not exclusive, monogamous relationships doesn't make them any less real or less complicated. It doesn't mean I wouldn't feel hurt if one of them decided to break it off. It's not like I'll just think "Oh well I still have the other." I have formed a deep attachment to each one. But I focus on my time with them, not on my ownership of them.

Polyamory doesn't remove any human complication from the relationship. It only removes one single, worthless rule, and that rule is that you are only supposed to be with one person if you really love them.

While I commend you for being able to live like that, I doubt I would be able to. You make it out to be as simple as removing a 'worthless' rule from the equation, though I think it's a lot more than that. To most people, your story really just makes you sound greedy, but that is of course only by the standards that most people set, in regard to relationships. If you are able to lead a life like this and your partners don't mind, then you should. But just like differing sexual orientations, I doubt it's something a person could grow to live with. And that's really been my problem with your story the whole time.

This is a very interesting thread, and Omnis Dei, you view on relationships is certainly thought provoking, and I actually quite agree with you. If you are monogamous because of jealousy and possessiveness, those are the wrong reasons.
Personally, I have been in several polyamorous before. None lasted in the long run, but this was due to the compatibility of the other person and me, not the polyamory. In fact, I feel that these where the most open and honest relationship I've had - and the most free from jealousy. In one of the relationship, if my partner started dating someone else, he would tell me about it and offer to introduce me to the other girl. I never felt jealous of this because I knew his interest in another girl did't preclude his interest in me.
Currently, I am in a monogamous relationship, but I try to keep the discussion open with my partner, should either one of us want to explore outside of monogamy. I can see now how polyamoury is not for every relationship. My girlfriend is very emotional and our lives are so intertwined, that including another person would seem exhausting to me. I can't say that I don't ever get jealous, but I know that jealousy is my problem, not my partners.

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Originally Posted by ThePreserver

In sociology today we were JUST talking about this; how in pre-agrarian hunter/gatherer groups, it was very common for a woman to have multiple "partners" at once since men were favored more and were therefore more abundant.

Men, after the horticultural revolution, held multiple wives. Strict monogamy is, relatively speaking, a "new" idea. Sure, 500 years may seem like a long time to some of us, but it's the blink of an eye compared to the amount of time human beings have roamed the Earth. We're used to monogamy because that's how we're raised, methinks.

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Neo: Whoa.

I think open relationships can be great, as long as both parties don't get jealous. In monogamous relationships, I tend to get very claustrophobic. I feel trapped and like I have written off sex with every woman in the world except one. It drives me insane, or at least it has in the past. In an open relationship, I would not feel that, and I just might last a long time in the relationship because of it. I have never been in an open relationship, but that is because women willing to be in them are very hard to find, especially in Mississippi.

As for the jealousy, sex does not make me jealous. Only love does. If my woman doesn't fall in love with somebody else, I am okay with her having sex with other men. In fact, it would be a major turn on.

EDIT: The only reason love makes me jealous is that it seems to be a threat to my relationship. I am so used to women being monogamous! If I could just accept that my woman is in love with me although she is in love with another or others, I would be all right with it. Maybe I can get there eventually.

I am honestly not trying to convince anyone they should be in an open relationship, even though because I took a defensive stance it may seem that way.

For me, personally, it's the healthiest relationship I've ever had. It's not a lick easier than a monogamous relationship and in fact it's quite a bit more complicated. But I've always been locked into two positions. Either I feel trapped, like UM was mentioning, or I'm alone and depressed. This way I can still stare at girls, talk to them, get to know them, get their numbers, bring them on dates, etc and I have the confidence that comes from being with a woman so I feel like I'm actually capable and likable. So for me personally, I couldn't be happier. I love my girlfriend and I'm crushing hard on my other friend, and flirting with other girls doesn't mean I love them any less. I'm not sacrificing an ounce of my dedication to them, but I still get the opportunity to flex my new confidence.