Should this forum have a way of posting NSFW content?

I don't mean just for nudes, why isn't there a sub-forum for people like me? I love this site, if I didn't I wouldn't keep coming back every time you guys ban me. It's not an age issue, I know you have ways to filter that, I don't think you have any phedo members floating around in here, either. They're easy to spot, I would think.

So what's the deal, why is it so hard to issue a password locked thread for us? Is it a lack of mod interest, if so i'd be more than happy to help out. It just doesn't make sense to me, is all.

not for safe work?

The outcome of that might be interesting to see.

I'm assuming you mean a "Not Safe for Work" area?

Some of us (myself, mainly) have been campaigning for this, for a long while now. The bottom line is that there simply isn't enough staff support for the idea. There are legitimate reasons, so I'm not going to be throwing anyone under the bus by discussing it too much, personally; but you already know where I stand on it, so if any of the other mods want to field this question, they are more than welcome to.

We had one in the past, and it was scrapped due to low/little participation. Personally I think it was because of the ambiguous name it had (whispering pines). IMO I think it could serve as an outlet for people who just can't help but discuss adult material. If people kept it their, maybe I wouldn't have to comb through the hot women thread and infract/ban. So i see it as a win/win situation.

I'd really want to hear what the rest of the community thinks about this. I know we have some freaky DVers (present company included). :shadewink:

edit:contemplating moving it to meta, but I'm not sure because maybe it'll get more replies and views here.

No, I meant not for showing wife..hurr. You're right though, not safe for work seems more appropriate.
Well at least you guys didn't just flat out say no, especially you 2 as I'm sure I've said plenty of nasty shit towards you, and that means more to me than you might think. I don't know man, later.

Wow strong mod responses. I wasn't expecting that.

Personally I don't see a problem with implementing this.

edit: On a related note, the title of this thread isn't optimal for making people come state their opinion. It should be rephrased to "Should this forum have a way of posting NSFW content?" or something.

Yeah man, I've been looking for a way to posts nudes on this site forever.

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Originally Posted by Seroquel

Wow strong mod responses. I wasn't expecting that.

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Cool bro...but what's your opinion on the actual topic?

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Originally Posted by greenhavoc

Well at least you guys didn't just flat out say no, especially you 2 as I'm sure I've said plenty of nasty shit towards you, and that means more to me than you might think. I don't know man, later.

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Wont be the last time someone says something nasty to us, and it wasn't the first. Just because we enforce rules and policies doesn't mean we're not open to changing or modifying them.

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Originally Posted by khh

Personally I don't see a problem with implementing this.

edit: On a related note, the title of this thread isn't optimal for making people come state their opinion. It should be rephrased to "Should this forum have a way of posting NSFW content?" or something.

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Fixed.

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Originally Posted by Auron

Cool bro...but what's your opinion on the actual topic?

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I don't have one.

Yeah it totally should.

Clear answer

So let me see if I have this straight, Dreamviews: There are only a hand full of DViants here interested in Boobs, maybe a pecker or 2; dirty jokes with a hint of racism? Are you guys telling me you're without cocktail, or have no interest in expressing yourself free of any guilt?

Cmon, srs.

I could help out with posting nude pics

EDIT: Actually read the thread.

I wouldn't use it, but I can see having one I suppose.

Please no, Oneironaut already spends enough time on DV posting pics of big asses.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Please no, Oneironaut already spends enough time on DV posting pics of big asses.

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Lol

I dunno, I'd be fine with a NSFW sub-forum. (I almost put sub-reddit. DAMN YOU REDDIT!) Only issue I see there is people being immature.

In no circumstance should it become okay to post NSFW stuff on the public side of DV. Plenty of kids surf these boards, and we're supposed to stand for the more mature, scientific side of the lucid dreaming community, and to provide a resource for it.

As to a hidden forum with access by request and highly monitored... I dunno. I find the idea of what would basically be a 'porn forum' to be pretty weird and I'm not sure why people feel like it would be required.

Yeah, the limited access part was kind of a given.

I would use it.

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Originally Posted by Xei

As to a hidden forum with access by request and highly monitored... I dunno. I find the idea of what would basically be a 'porn forum' to be pretty weird and I'm not sure why people feel like it would be required.

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In that big ol' brain of yours, has it ever occurred to you that NFSW doesn't necessarily equate porn? That is pretty narrow minded of you, Xei.

It seems to be the only thing anybody else is interpreting it as. What else would it be?

Nude pictures of our selves, of course.

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Originally Posted by greenhavoc

In that big ol' brain of yours, has it ever occurred to you that NFSW doesn't necessarily equate porn? That is pretty narrow minded of you, Xei.

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We discuss every other NSFW thing on the boards already. The only thing left is porn.
Oh and gore. But fuck that, there's other sites for that.

I also see little point in it, tbh. This site is *supposed* to be primarily about LDing. We have off-topic for casual chat coz there are cool members here and ED coz smart members.
But do you really want to share naked pic with people here? Would that make your experience better?
I just don't see this as a community thing. You can go look at any NSFW pics or videos on other websites. Join Reddit.

If you, for whatever reason, think it would be enjoyable to talk/watch/share that stuff with people here, fair enough, but personally I don't think it should be here.

On the other hand, the only reason it could be good is for news stories that are just deemed to disgusting or whatever to be in the open forum.
For example I posted a news story with a video of that Chinese girl getting run over etc. but it got deleted coz it was fucked up.
As I said, though, there are other sites to be informed about that type of thing.

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As I said, though, there are other sites to be informed about that type of thing.

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but why should we have to go to another site for that? why not have that here?

there is another dream forum i go into and they have something similar in which you must be 18 and over to have access to that section. and i find it both interesting and amusing to see people express themselves differently compared to the regular rant and rave sections in that forum. you pretty much get to see a different side to people.

It would be pretty easy to put some rules up for what kind of NSFW material could be posted...

Like, no penetration. That would stop a majority of images being posted.

I know this type of thing can work. I've seen uncensored forums before and they can be fine.

I find it's not the content of these sub-forums that presents a problem but the people. In some places I've seen 'uncensored' to mean "Say anything you want about other members" which leads to people getting butt-hurt and leaving, followed by people defending the posts saying "It's okay here because this area is uncensored, we can say what we want."


I see nothing wrong with having an area for adult content that might not be appropriate for all viewers (like the mentioned video of the car accident or even nude photos) as long as people didn't treat it like an excuse to openly attack other members and or post material that was purposefully meant to offend everyone, for example, children abusing a cat or racial beatings.

Each good idea comes with its own complications.

I just want dick measuring contests.

Can't we just have a forum that links to 4chan or something? Seems to be what you guys are after.

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Originally Posted by Marvo

I just want dick measuring contests.

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Extended Discussion

Apparently T&A is too low brow for you, Xei. Now the only logical conclusion I can come up with for this, is that you are indeed super gay.

See, I want to be able to say things like this to DV members because I like them, not because I really mean it. I can't very well go around the main forums and act this way, obviously. I would love to post something like this without a spoiler:

Spoiler for Nestles Crunch:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2r47tr7.jpg

And know black people are laughing, too. I know we can go elsewhere for this shit, but why bother? Let people like me bring it to DV, so the rest of you hypocrites don't have to feel bad about having a sense of humor.

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Originally Posted by greenhavoc

Apparently T&A is too low brow for you, Xei. Now the only logical conclusion I can come up with for this, is that you are indeed super gay.

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Really? That's the example you give to demonstrate that this isn't just about porn; tits and asses?

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See, I want to be able to say things like this to DV members because I like them, not because I really mean it.

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This is different. This isn't asking to be able to post NSFW content; this is asking for a forum where there's no rule against racist slurs.

No, DV doesn't desperately need this. Go to 4chan.

Racist, oh my. You didn't google it, did you? lol

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Really? That's the example you give to demonstrate that this isn't just about porn; tits and asses?

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No, the tits and ass was my genuine concern for your sexuality, the rest you can ballpark.

If it's obviously not racist, there's no reason you can't post it in DV already.

Apparently there is, as you just unnecessarily jumped my ass for it. I mean, you are smarter than 90% of DV members, right? If someone of your caliber didn't get it, what makes you think the rest of us retards will?

What the fuck is wrong with you greenhavoc?

Nothing, why?

I'm not gonna have a conversation about how the word 'nigger' isn't liable to insult a few people. Because that would be retarded.

Too bad we don't have an NSFW thread where I could show the word nigger, cracker or any other slur is just that, a word.
I'm starting to see it all clear now, Xei. Your intelligence is completely linear, whereas mine is all over the place. How would that play out in nature, I wonder?

Probably with me eating you and then mating with all of your women.

I find that that DV would be better off without a NSFW section, ultimately DV is about Dreaming or related subjects. The lounge, extented discussion etc lets you become part of the community, have some fun, it's not entirely useless. I don't think a NSFW sub-forum can contribute much to increase the overall happiness of DV members. 90% of all websites seem to have nsfw content and I think it would be a shame if DV became one of them.
I honestly can't see much good coming from a NSFW sub-forum.

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Originally Posted by Xei

Probably with me eating you and then mating with all of your women.

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Lol, whatever. You want this as much as I do.

In all honesty I don't see a 'need' for it either. I think DreamViews is fine the way it is.

The problems that would ensue would so incredibly outweigh any possible fun of having it. We would have to create a Janitor Team just for cleaning it up.

So, no, we're not going to have a NSFW area.

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Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

The problems that would ensue would so incredibly outweigh any possible fun of having it. We would have to create a Janitor Team just for cleaning it up.

So, no, we're not going to have a NSFW area.

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So that's settled then? End debate?

Yeah, don't act like you own the forums. That type of tone always leads to spats between members and staff.

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Originally Posted by tommo

Yeah, don't like you own the forums. That type of tone always leads to spats between members and staff.

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Who are you talking to?

Unneeded and possibly against the hosting co's TOS. I vote nay.

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Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

Who are you talking to?

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You.

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Originally Posted by tommo

You.

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Shoooot, I don't think I own the forum. I just agree with the members who were against having a NSFW area. And since I could potentially be the one to end up creating it if there was a unanimous decision for it, I was happy to close the deal when it seemed most folks were against it. But feel free to go over my head and ask Alex to go ahead and create it. Or ShockWave and Kraid, since it would be a potential 2/3rds vote for it, right? I have no problem considering the popular vote with my own opinion.

Right, I'm just saying the way you said it, as illustrated by khh's response, seems to indicate your decision is final. Just a couple of months before you came back there was a thread in meta which was basically about this type of tone that a lot of staff take when closing threads or deciding on new features etc. and it pisses people off.

Fair enough and I see your point Tommo.

I admit I'm a little confused because I thought the whole point of threads like these was for regular members, community members, and staff members to have a say, and then an admin has the final word. I wasn't trying to throw my weight around for the sake of it, my initial post in this thread is just common practice as far as I'm concerned. If I missed something, please let me know. I feel like one of my jobs here is to be a tie breaker and move decisions, like this one, forward. I'm not about to pretend like I'm the be all end all, but if I feel a request is not congruent with the overall beat of this forum, I'm going to blackball it. I'd like to think you would do the same thing if you had the same job as I do, as it were.

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Originally Posted by Xei

In no circumstance should it become okay to post NSFW stuff on the public side of DV. Plenty of kids surf these boards, and we're supposed to stand for the more mature, scientific side of the lucid dreaming community, and to provide a resource for it.

As to a hidden forum with access by request and highly monitored... I dunno. I find the idea of what would basically be a 'porn forum' to be pretty weird and I'm not sure why people feel like it would be required.

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http://www.dreamviews.com/f16/post-p...-candy-115269/
http://www.dreamviews.com/f16/post-p...ty-%5D-116779/

So we can have borderline nudity, but not actual nudity?

I'm not for a "porn forum", but I'm for allowing users to post nudity. Why hide our users from the human body?

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Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

Fair enough and I see your point Tommo.

I admit I'm a little confused because I thought the whole point of threads like these was for regular members, community members, and staff members to have a say, and then an admin has the final word. I wasn't trying to throw my weight around for the sake of it, my initial post in this thread is just common practice as far as I'm concerned. If I missed something, please let me know. I feel like one of my jobs here is to be a tie breaker and move decisions, like this one, forward. I'm not about to pretend like I'm the be all end all, but if I feel a request is not congruent with the overall beat of this forum, I'm going to blackball it. I'd like to think you would do the same thing if you had the same job as I do, as it were.

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I think we would at least like to have the illusion that staff have discussed the matter, taking in to consideration all of the members' points. Rather than just one admin suddenly saying it's not going to happen when the discussion is still going amongst the members.

Maybe you didn't realise how it sounds, or maybe you just think the decisions for stuff like this should be different. I'm just giving my, and I feel confident saying many other members, view on this.

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Originally Posted by slayer

http://www.dreamviews.com/f16/post-p...-candy-115269/
http://www.dreamviews.com/f16/post-p...ty-%5D-116779/

So we can have borderline nudity, but not actual nudity?

I'm not for a "porn forum", but I'm for allowing users to post nudity. Why hide our users from the human body?

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Good point. And from a purely objective perspective, what's wrong with posting two human bodies? And maybe they could be kissing? Or embracing? Or having intercourse? Up the bum?

You have to draw a line at some arbitrary point or other. Your line is no better than anybody else's line, and certainly not objectively correct in some way.

I get why the board has rules against pornographic content, and I also see no real reason why we should have it here, especially if it's some idiotic deal with a locked thread or hidden subforum, I mean really?
But that being said, those rules are pretty dumb. They're based on "ew, nakedness" and "ew sex is indecent".

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Originally Posted by tommo

I think we would at least like to have the illusion that staff have discussed the matter, taking in to consideration all of the members' points. Rather than just one admin suddenly saying it's not going to happen when the discussion is still going amongst the members.

Maybe you didn't realise how it sounds, or maybe you just think the decisions for stuff like this should be different. I'm just giving my, and I feel confident saying many other members, view on this.

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Makes sense. I suppose my instant "NO" on the matter seemed harsh, but that's just because it it already was hashed out by staff a few months ago. Some staff members wanted it, as Oneironaut Zero already mentioned the 3rd post of this thread, but the majority of staff was and still is against it.

Then where should I post links like this one, without having to worry about being banned again?
Sorta porn, but not really:

Arsen Savadov Arts.

Anywhere but DV man. Lol why did I click.

You could always PM your fav links to your best buds? Actually, you just gave me an idea. I'll PM you in a bit.

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Originally Posted by Xei

You have to draw a line at some arbitrary point or other. Your line is no better than anybody else's line, and certainly not objectively correct in some way.

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That we need to draw an arbitrary line at some point is arbitrary.

I guess so, if you don't have moral objections to child porn and stuff.

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Originally Posted by tommo

I think we would at least like to have the illusion that staff have discussed the matter, taking in to consideration all of the members' points. Rather than just one admin suddenly saying it's not going to happen when the discussion is still going amongst the members.

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A bunch of staff members did discuss this. We may not have done it here in the thread but we do talk to each other quite often.

The discussion continues.

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Originally Posted by greenhavoc

Then where should I post links like this one, without having to worry about being banned again?
Sorta porn, but not really:

Arsen Savadov Arts.

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Please excuse me for going off-topic but

what the fuck
...............................................is this shit

?

Now, I absolutely agree that it would be irresponsible to allow NSFW content on the public boards. I mean, if the kids want porn they'll get it, but christ not here. I can however see the reason to want an area where us (relatively) mature members can discuss and share mature content amongst ourselves. I can't think of any problem with a private area that is only visible to members with permission to view it (assuming it doesn't violate any part of the hosting provider's TOS) - if anything, it would eliminate borderline content from the public section of the forum, which, if you're concerned about our outward appearance, could only be helpful. There would of course still be some ground rules needed, but I honestly feel like everyone here could handle that and act reasonably. As for any extra moderation time such a section would require, I can't really make an informed estimate there, but that does have to be taken into account. I certainly think it's something we could do, but I don't imagine myself to speak for anyone else and I certainly wouldn't complain if a majority of people just didn't feel like they would use it (though I don't get that impression). That's just my thoughts on the matter, is all.

I'd just like to point something out to everyone who is requesting that we allow porn/nudity/NSFW/whatever.

The law regarding internet pornography is particularly vague, especially in the U.S. (which is where Dreamviews is hosted). From what I understand, it is illegal to knowingly provide minors (under 18 in the U.S.) with the ability to watch "indecent content". As Dreamviews allows people from the age of 13 to register and take part, we must abide by this law.

Even if we allow it in a separate forum or something which only allows non-minors in there, we would be opening up the way for minors to simply fake their age. And to be honest, I'm not too partial to the idea of adding a porn forum to a website about lucid dreaming.

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Originally Posted by melanieb

A bunch of staff members did discuss this. We may not have done it here in the thread but we do talk to each other quite often.

The discussion continues.

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Yes, I am aware of that now. I was just pointing out that it's just really frustrating when a staff member comes in and says "this is what's happening and that's final".
As I said, many of us would at least like the illusion that staff have discussed things.
In this case they have, but Ophie did not convey it as such. It was conveyed as her acting alone and deciding what will happen.

Anyway, I went through this in my other posts and I hope we all understand what I was saying now.

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Originally Posted by ShockWave

I'd just like to point something out to everyone who is requesting that we allow porn/nudity/NSFW/whatever.

The law regarding internet pornography is particularly vague, especially in the U.S. (which is where Dreamviews is hosted). From what I understand, it is illegal to knowingly provide minors (under 18 in the U.S.) with the ability to watch "indecent content". As Dreamviews allows people from the age of 13 to register and take part, we must abide by this law.

Even if we allow it in a separate forum or something which only allows non-minors in there, we would be opening up the way for minors to simply fake their age.

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Yes, so what? Porn sites only make you enter your age, it doesn't matter if you fake it. At most the person faking their age could get charged for fraud or something. But not the web site hosting it. Also I don't know how many new members would fake their age if they don't know there's a NSFW section beforehand, as you could just hide it to anyone under 18.

If found out, ban them first offence. Period.
No bestiality, child pornography or penetration. If providing gore, there should be a story behind it and not just something posted for shock value.
If you have access to NSFW, then you're added to a scheduled maintenance detail; we'll allclean it up. How much easier can it get?

This is the last I'll post in this thread, Borderlands 2 far outweighs boobs for me right now. You're all gay.

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Originally Posted by greenhavoc

Then where should I post links like this one, without having to worry about being banned again?
Sorta porn, but not really:

Arsen Savadov Arts.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDGlN6mluGA

When I posted that question it wasn't really meant to spark this confrontation. I was genuinely confused as to whether that was the end of the discussion or not. It sounded final, but the thread wasn't locked.

No worries khh :)

I forgot to mention one last thing, then I'm done. We used to have a private forum like this, and it completely died. That particular fact was also considered when staff discussed having this type of forum again. I wanted to mention that because I didn't want y'all to think it was just some cold-hearted decision. And if I, or another staff member says "yay" or "nay" to something, we are speaking on behalf of the rest of staff. Which means the "something" was discussed. I just wanted to point that out to clear up any future confusion. :)

I don't want to see a porn forum, and I could see how such a thing would die quickly. It would make much more sense to create a rule that allows users to post porn in certain sections of the forum, such as the Hottest Guys/Girls thread I posted above. Another one would allow nudity to be posted in the Artist's Corner. There really should be no reason as to why it's not allowed there, since it is an art forum.

I don't want to see people posting their favorite videos from porn sites, but I'm completely okay with people showing images of nudity that doesn't portray "sex". There should be no reason why we hide the human body from our users, and we're only delaying the inevitable from the younger userbase.

Allow nudity to be posted in The Lounge, but it keep out of the Dreaming section.

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Originally Posted by slayer

I don't want to see people posting their favorite videos from porn sites, but I'm completely okay with people showing images of nudity that doesn't portray "sex". There should be no reason why we hide the human body from our users, and we're only delaying the inevitable from the younger user base.

Allow nudity to be posted in The Lounge, but it keep out of the Dreaming section.

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And for people like me (yup....we exist) we're like.....if they're naked, they might as well get fucked. Or, well they posed....they might as well get fucked. I know this may sound awful in your head, but hey.....that's just what I'm thinking. In another sense, I'm not like "we need this to post racial crap". He lost me with that. But like I do remember having conversations outside of DV, with other DVers about favorite adult film stars and such. Maybe DV doesn't need it, but remember, at one point DV didn't need an off topic section. And then it didn't need a extended discussion, or flash chat, or a regular dream journal, or a community hall, and then it didn't need an adoption program.


Things change guys.....but hey...it's all up to the community right? :Oh....I can't help but chuckle at that.:

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Originally Posted by slayer

I don't want to see a porn forum, and I could see how such a thing would die quickly. It would make much more sense to create a rule that allows users to post porn in certain sections of the forum, such as the Hottest Guys/Girls thread I posted above. Another one would allow nudity to be posted in the Artist's Corner. There really should be no reason as to why it's not allowed there, since it is an art forum.

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There shouldn't be, no. But as ShockWave pointed out earlier, there are simply some laws out there that makes it a requirement.

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I don't want to see people posting their favorite videos from porn sites, but I'm completely okay with people showing images of nudity that doesn't portray "sex". There should be no reason why we hide the human body from our users, and we're only delaying the inevitable from the younger userbase.

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So, a sort of naturalistic argument right? Nudity is just nudity, so why should it be hidden? Problem with that is that sex is like that, too, so why should that be hidden?

Ideally, I think people should be allowed to post anything. Of course there should be common sense to dictate when or if it is appropriate.

But all of these arguments break down completely because of the law. Isn't anything the DV staff can do about that.

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Originally Posted by ShockWave

I'd just like to point something out to everyone who is requesting that we allow porn/nudity/NSFW/whatever.

The law regarding internet pornography is particularly vague, especially in the U.S. (which is where Dreamviews is hosted). From what I understand, it is illegal to knowingly provide minors (under 18 in the U.S.) with the ability to watch "indecent content". As Dreamviews allows people from the age of 13 to register and take part, we must abide by this law.

Even if we allow it in a separate forum or something which only allows non-minors in there, we would be opening up the way for minors to simply fake their age. And to be honest, I'm not too partial to the idea of adding a porn forum to a website about lucid dreaming.

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That pretty much sums it up for me...If you want underage access, then you need underage content control.

NSFW means porn and profanity.

You all can't pretend you are gonna be posting all kinds of cultured shit either. Its gonna be piles of swear words and fap worthy material.

Honestly, there is more offensive material in my dreams than most NSFW websites. But until our culture lets go of this ridiculous concept of innocence, NSFW will still mean something...

In conclusion...I don't care, but I figured it would be nice to express myself. And I even did it without the use of porn or profanity...wowz

:banana:


Edit...I used one profane word...although, its not really considered particularly profane these days...shows you how culture changes...