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http://www.metrolyrics.com/lyrics/21474184...vember_Has_Come
I love the Gorillaz, make no mistake. But this song is just absolutely butchered by this "MF Doom" character. The lyrics make no damned sense in relation to what the chorus is saying, and to top it all off, MF Doom sounds like he's got golf balls in his mouth when he 'raps'. Fuck rap.
Rap makes Dirty Harry lovely, and Clint Eastwood.
I completely disagree with the comments said. There is so much beautiful underground rap out there I'm sure no one else here has heard about. I'll admit that It's hard to truly know what hip hop and rap is all about b/c none of the good stuff gets played.
I haven't actually heard the MF Doom mix of any Gorillaz song. Regardless, I'm comfortable saying that any rap verse that MF Doom spits on any Gorillaz track does not give someone the jist of what true hip hop and rap is really about.
I'm certain that one song doesn't give someone enough listening experience in the world of rap to conclude that "rappers ruin everything".
Personally, I will agree that I hate all the rap that continues to promote worldly things like money, women, sex and the infamous "bling" era; that's what mainstream and radio rap is all about.
There is no way one can have a valid opinion about something w/out actually giving it a chance. No offense to anyone here, but if you're basing your opinions of rap on remixes of artists like the Gorillaz, then there is no way an opinion can be formed w/ so much unknowns and assumptions.
Whether anyone here agrees w/ me or not, it is a fact that hip hop influences modern global culture. Mainstream society's definition of what's "cool" is largely determined by many of the trends seen in hip hop.
For those of you who hate rap and have good reason to do so, I would love for you to at least check out some artists that I'm going to suggest. Some of the people I'm going to mention are truly geniuses in their own right. They have created timeless music that relates so many people to fond memories and so much more. To call these songs beautiful is such an understatement.
I'm very passionate about hip hop and music in general. If you do check some of this out, please listen to it w/ an open mind. I would also strongly suggest to read the lyrics as you listen...they can be found on this website called "www.ohhla.com". It's hard to understand what's being said sometimes, so the lyrics are almost a must.
Artist/Group__ Song__ Album
OutKast__ The art of storytellin' Part II__ Aquemini
K-Os__ Dirty Water__ Joyful Rebellion
Dizzee Rascal__ I Luv U__ Boy In 'Da Corner
Devin The Dude__ See What I could Pull__ The Dude
OutKast___ Crumblin' Herb___ SouthernPlayasticCadillacMuzik
Hey Colin, the artist named K-Os that I just mentioned is from Canada by the way.
Hey Alex D, the artist Dizzee Rascal is from Britain...you heard of him?
Thanks to all for taking the time to read my post. Peace.
The only song on the Demon Days album with rap that actually contributes to the song is Feel Good Inc.
That's cool. I'm glad you like the Demon Days CD....I haven't heard it. But does listening to that one album only give you enough information to say that "rappers ruin everything"?
My badd...I'm not trying to turn this into an argument. I just want to promote open thinking.
The gorillaz aren't even that good.
Check out the artists at the end of my post on this thread.
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic....6885&highlight=
All music that is supposed to influence you, be 'deep' or is flouted as doing such is automatically trash and I will try to avoid it where possible.
I like music to listen to and help lift my mood and keep me concentrated, not to form my life around and 'mainstream culture' or whatever lyrics you can cull from those thirty gigabytes of angst and cussing you've congealed. If you have something to say, it can be said several thousand times better in a nice article, not in your "pimpin' gangsta what you fuckin' wanksta" (yeah I just made that up) songs with a load of woman doing suggestive things. Oh and songs that are supposed to be 'deep' suck several times more. They're only as 'deep' as they need to be for people to buy it.
Well, that's music for me. Nice stuff to listen to but you're stupid if you start listening to a bunch of celebrities just doing glorified nursery rhymes and deciding to form opinions based on what they say.
(I don't like rap).
Kaniaz said
I completely agree. I just graduated from Texas A&M with a degree in electrical engineering. I used to use some of the same trash that you speak of to help me stay focused.Quote:
I like music to listen to and help lift my mood and keep me concentrated[/b]
Also, how can you assume that creative lyrical poetry doesn’t lift your mood?
\"Glorified Nursery Rhymes\"?
In college, I also worked as a researcher and had to write reports over my work. I gained experience with wordplay from my experience with music; most notably quality hip hop and rap. By the time I graduated and left the research lab, I was regarded as one of the best writers in the lab. I was simply an undergraduate among grad and PhD students. My elders came to me for help with their writing.
How many people you ask will tell you that poetry doesn’t expand your mind?
Kaniaz also said
It’s obvious that your impressions of hip hop are only based by what you’re exposed to from TV and radio. It’s always been my impression that in the history of man, the “stupid” ones are those who form opinions of things based on minimal exposure.Quote:
Nice stuff to listen to but you're stupid if you start listening to a bunch of celebrities just doing glorified nursery rhymes and deciding to form opinions based on what they say[/b]
I’m not blindly defending rap only…I am simply opposed to the close-mindedness of the comments said…especially from a lucid dreamer at that. The type of thinking that causes one to hastily write one type of music off w/out giving it a chance is the same type of thinking that led to events like the Salem Witch Trials and the belief that the world is flat. It’s tragic that similar thinking still exists.
I agree that it would be stupid to form opinions only on things that the celebrities are saying. But, there are still those who love rap and form their opinions on things they know to be true; you know, things you get from an education. Do you know?
Another assumption I interpreted from the comments was the thinking that all rappers are celebrities. Keep in mind that the most beautiful music is underground. These artists aren’t all making money from their music; they have regular jobs and go hungry sometimes.
I actually listen to a wide variety of music…one thing I’ve learned was that each and every type of music has its inherent beauty. Even if you don’t relate or appreciate art foreign to you, it still doesn’t give someone the right to disrespect it while being un-informed.
Maybe one day, people with the “flat earth” type of thinking can appreciate the beauty in all things. I hope so b/c all that negative energy isn’t healthy for self-development.
Umm... ur not calling yourself stupid here are you? Cuz it sounds like you've bee listening to "a bunch of celebrities just doing glorified nursery rhymes" and you have formed an opinion based on what they say, that because one small group of commercial musician's rap is rather laughable (I can't stand 50 cent any more than you) then ALL rap must be... crap.Quote:
Originally posted by Kaniaz
Well, that's music for me. Nice stuff to listen to but you're stupid if you start listening to a bunch of celebrities just doing glorified nursery rhymes and deciding to form opinions based on what they say.
If you don't like mainstream culture, don't listen to it. Of course the gangster rappers you see in video charts are just trying to sell their music and of course there are lots of bands that like to capitalise on teen angst or rebellion, but by forming an opinion of the rest of hiphop culture based on what you see on the tv is, in your own words, stupid.
You're clever; when I wrote that I knew perfectly well somebody would stand up and point out \"ha! you're forming an opinon about rap from, uh, RAP ITSELF?\" In case you can't figure it out, it makes perfect sense to form an opinon about something from observing the object itself. Therefore it is exempt from the rule. That makes sense to you, right? OK then, what about forming an opinon about life itself from rap (or any other kind of music that is all about some guy's 'opinon')?Quote:
Originally posted by Roller
Umm... ur not calling yourself stupid here are you? Cuz it sounds like you've bee listening to \"a bunch of celebrities just doing glorified nursery rhymes\" and you have formed an opinion based on what they say, that because one small group of commercial musician's rap is rather laughable (I can't stand 50 cent any more than you) then ALL rap must be... crap.
Hey, ding ding, it's the assumption mobile, and you're quite happily riding it all the way to idiotville. I don't watch TV. I don't form opinons based on what TV tells me, honestly, not even a goldfish would be stupid enough to watch MTV then make assumptions about a whole community based on what a load of silicone loaded girls reading off autocues happen to say (script). Come back when you've read properly.Quote:
If you don't like mainstream culture, don't listen to it. Of course the gangster rappers you see in video charts are just trying to sell their music and of course there are lots of bands that like to capitalise on teen angst or rebellion, but by forming an opinion of the rest of hiphop culture based on what you see on the tv is, in your own words, stupid.[/b]
Me. Maybe I'm just the only one that thinks, to take a random poem, none in paticular, that reading lines like \"these bars in front of me, they make my cage, they make myself\" with some random carriage returns every 7 words or so, does not further your intelligence or even make me think about whatever it was they were trying to say. I won't lie - I don't find poetry \"deep\" or anything either. So sorry.Quote:
How many people you ask will tell you that poetry doesn’t expand your mind? [/b]
Ding ding again! It's the assumptionmobile, Roller at the wheel, you in the passenger seat and a trunk full of dead bodies. I don't A) watch TV [perhaps Spongebob Squarepants or something, but as far as I'm aware, Squidward doesn't rap] or B) listen to the radio, other than for 30 minutes on the way to school during the school terms. And then it's all like, old folk music. Not my choice of channel.Quote:
It’s obvious that your impressions of hip hop are only based by what you’re exposed to from TV and radio.[/b]
Or something they just pulled out of thin air, I would suppose?Quote:
It’s always been my impression that in the history of man, the “stupid” ones are those who form opinions of things based on minimal exposure. [/b]
I think it's even worse you can refer to 2D things like Usher and extremely dimensonal things like the witch trials in the same sentence and not wince. Of course I've given it a chance. Regale me with when I said \"I listened to one peice of rap from Eminem/Usher/AnotherDamnRapper and then wrote off the entire genre based on one artist\", then I will agree with you.Quote:
I’m not blindly defending rap only…I am simply opposed to the close-mindedness of the comments said…especially from a lucid dreamer at that. The type of thinking that causes one to hastily write one type of music off w/out giving it a chance is the same type of thinking that led to events like the Salem Witch Trials and the belief that the world is flat. It’s tragic that similar thinking still exists. [/b]
Yes, it would. You see people that do in the street and I'm sure they irritate you as much as me. And yes, you can obviously let it \"prod\" your opinon. I still hardly put my thumbs up but coupled with a proper education about the subject, one that isn't a rhyming poem of sorts, it's nowhere near as bad as hearing something about a subject in rap for the first time and basing your whole opinon on that. That is what I am getting at here.Quote:
I agree that it would be stupid to form opinions only on things that the celebrities are saying. But, there are still those who love rap and form their opinions on things they know to be true; you know, things you get from an education. Do you know? [/b]
An artist starves, an artist eats a three course meal. And?Quote:
Another assumption I interpreted from the comments was the thinking that all rappers are celebrities. Keep in mind that the most beautiful music is underground. These artists aren’t all making money from their music; they have regular jobs and go hungry sometimes. [/b]
As it does to 'disrespect' an opinon and putting words in my mouth. You can't even find one mention of television in my last post.Quote:
I actually listen to a wide variety of music…one thing I’ve learned was that each and every type of music has its inherent beauty. Even if you don’t relate or appreciate art foreign to you, it still doesn’t give someone the right to disrespect it while being un-informed. [/b]
Yes, and I think you spend too long meditating on life itself, which is also bad for you. What, you don't medidate? Oh that's okay, because I don't watch TV either.Quote:
Maybe one day, people with the “flat earth” type of thinking can appreciate the beauty in all things. I hope so b/c all that negative energy isn’t healthy for self-development.[/b]
Well it seems you're all sidestepping my points here and just pulling out the usual "you watch TV retort". Did you even read my post and let it impress upon you, above 'he does not agree?' I don't watch television. I don't listen to the radio. You don't meditate either. And that is my opinon, it is like an asshole, everyone's stinks, and as with any other opinon - including "deep" ones - you'll have a hard time making it change. Even moreso when you don't seem to even answer the post itself, but rather this whole notion that for anyone to think rap is bad, they must of listened solely to the mainstream and let TV form that opinon for them. But of course.
Kaniaz, don't hate.
I'm not here trying to call you out. But you're still basing opinions of an entire art based on pre-meditated judgements. I don't hear anyone criticizing your love for HTML, Java, or other things that can easily daw similar pre-meditated criticism.
I can just as easily tell you to get off that nerdy ass programming hobby and get a real life female companion that allows you to escape the warm embrace of your palm. Regardless, I like to give everyone and everything their due respect before I go out on a limb and actually credit such a comment to my name.
Yes Kaniaz, your comments and point of view still get my respect. It is a practice that educated people in academia make a habit of doing as to not discourage the development of new ideas. Maybe a rigorous education will do you good. I can only pray and hope.
Welll then... not open to a bit of criticism eh?
Ok, fair enough, that was a pretty shoddy assumption and I witdraw it.Quote:
I don't A) watch TV [perhaps Spongebob Squarepants or something, but as far as I'm aware, Squidward doesn't rap] or B) listen to the radio[/b]
Which part of the 'object itself' have you been observing then if you quite happily admit you watch no tv and listen to no radio. It must be a pretty significant part to enable you to make assumptions like this:Quote:
In case you can't figure it out, it makes perfect sense to form an opinon about something from observing the object itself.[/b]
Maybe not, but it would have to be a pretty extraordinary goldfish to think that MTV is a 'load of silicone loaded girls reading off autocues' when, in the goldfishes' own admission it does not watch tv. Surely Mr Goldfish should have better things to do with his extraordinary psycic powers.Quote:
not even a goldfish would be stupid enough to watch MTV and then make assumptions based on what a load of silicone loaded girls reading off autocues happen to say (script).[/b]
Hmm. I'm wondering where you listen to enough Usher to establish opinion about him. If you don't watch TV, don't listen to radio, then how? I (correct me if this is too wild an assumption) don't think that you would buy his albums, or download his songs from the net. If you avoid such music where ever possible then please tell me where you listen to enough of Usher to formulate such an opinion. True, you might be exposed to his music playing in shops as you walk down the street, but surely you don't stop in the middle of your shopping to listen to a whole song in order to critique it...Quote:
I think it's even worse you can refer to 2D things like Usher[/b]
So does it make sense to form an opinion about something from studied obseration of the object itself? Of course. Does it make sense to formulate a generalised opinion about something through minimal exposure (\"I will try to avoid it where possible\") to only one faceat or aspect, or in some cases no (I don't watch MTV but I'll tell you all about it) exposure at all? No.
Trying to hijack my assumption mobile on the way to idiotville? Fine by me.Quote:
You don't meditate either[/b]
You're not lesser people in my eyes for caring about something I don't...but those responses were just a load of petty (that's pride when it gets poked) word games, and while I'd really love to care, I can't, and ad hominems are so yesterday. Oh well, thanks for trying! If you really like you can PM me all about it and we can argue forever and ever.
No worries then.
On the subject of the Demon Days album, I quite liked it (rapping and all) although I do think that when an album draws on so many 'guest artists' it can detract a bit from the actual artists themselves. The Gorillaz concept does work well with different contributions though, so I don't really mind in this case. In the case of Dirty Harry I think that the rapping contributes a lot to the song, although not really apparent until you listen over a few times to the lyrics (about the Iraq war). With the rest of the tracks on the album, I'm not so fussed if they don't make sense because they're so damn catchy (DARE for example.)
Sorry for hijacking the thread colin, got a little carried away there.
While I can understand your bad impression of rap music, Kaniaz, you have not said one thing that suggests anything other than:
You've heard a Small Fraction of hip-hop culture (only a type that those who control mainstream rap WANT you to ingest) and you're condemning the entire concept of rap/hip hop. You're reacting in the way those who promote mainstream/commercial rap Want you to (either you like the trashy rap WE give you while we keep the poly-dimensional, unfiltered works hidden from you, or you reject the rap WE give you, and you still stay ignorant to the truth, that there is more out there.) And I suppose no one can blame you for that. Rap is a screwed up Industry...and that is unfortunately the way it is designed, now that those with Money are in charge of how the public views it...not the artists themselves. A CEO tells an 'artist' that they can make more money by acting a certain way, because thats what 'the crowd' wants to hear, so they get wardrobe, props, and basically have their content scripted for them, portraying a 'stereotypical Rapper' rather than showing that rap is just verbal content set to music, and is as diverse as there are individuals on this planet.
However, what you at least have to Acknowledge (and you obviously haven't, based by the rappers you named that you've *sampled*) is that the possibilities of Subject Matter, when dealing with rap, or Any Other type of music, is Infinite. If you've never sat down to watch an action movie before, and then you spend a full day watching B-rated action movies, made with just as little conviction as raw talent...is it more intelligent to say "All action movies are Retarded? or Trash?" or would it make more sense to realize there are 87293021398402823987283+ more action movies, with varying levels of commitment/plot/budget/and over all Convicted Talent involved, that you have not seen?
Granted, the rap music that you've heard may be trash. No one can argue with that opinion, except for yourself, because that is your personal opinion after Hearing the songs. But for you to say that you can group all rap music under the subject matter of the .003% of all rap songs on the earth, with a limitless variety of subject matter, as trash, that would be an undeniably closed-minded point of view.
Rapping is poetry set to music, and poetry is a formulation of words. If the scripting of words for other people to view was a 'trashy' concept....you would not have 4900 posts on a message board. :!:
The fact that you say:Shows that you don't understand the nature of the music you're forming an opinion on. Rap is not "Supposed" to do anything. Rap is a way of Presenting your thoughts...not dictating what peoples' thoughts should be, unless that is the intent of the Artist..Quote:
All music that is supposed to influence you, be 'deep' or is flouted as doing such is automatically trash and I will try to avoid it where possible. [/b]
Poetry can be about violence, love, politics, a television show, your favorite type of beans, a girl's pinky toe, whatever you want it to be. You may not like a certain Topic, but to codemn poetry in its most basic concept....is not a very intelligent thing to do. (No offense intended.) It is the same with rap music. Just because you have been exposed to the lowest forms of rap music, and molded to believe that this is the only range of possibility, does not mean you should close your eyes to the fact that there is "Different" rap, out there.
This is the same type of logic that leads racists to believe they have a reason to hate Entire Races. You are brainwashed, and refusing to open your eyes to the truth.
And its not a very difficult truth to understand. Its not even one worth arguing about, once you realize how common-sense it is. Subject Matter is what your opinion of rap music should be based on. Your dislike of rap music as a whole, is basically saying that "No Good can come from the mind of a person in lyrical form. The act of writing thought to paper, and even using creativity to display word-play, vocabulary, personal philosophy or emotion, is an idea for idiots." Why don't you just verbally bash an graphic artist for being original when constructing a picture out of his own thoughts of society? You're showing the same type of shallow logic.
Again...I'm not disagreeing that the rap music that you've heard (again...a very SMALL fraction, based on your own words) you may disagree with. But crossing your arms and looking away from the entire Realm of rap music would be like hearing about 10 shark attacks in the U.S. over the span of 20 years...and being too afraid to go to the beach Anywhere for the rest of your life. :shakehead2:
...sure it may make sense to YOU at the time...but when you step outside of yourself and really think about it.....:idea:
Oneironaut said
Kaniaz saidQuote:
Subject Matter is what your opinion of rap music should be based on[/b]
Thus strengthening the argument of the defenders of open-minded opinions and ideas. (You never did list any subject matter to reference where you pulled your opinions from)Quote:
I don't A) watch TV or B) listen to the radio, other than for 30 minutes[/b]
Oneironaut said
EXACTLY, and muchas gracias OnieronautQuote:
This is the same type of logic that leads racists to believe they have a reason to hate Entire Races[/b]
Kaniaz, this wasn't an argument about hip hop or rap music at all. It was an argument against the crime of hasty opinion forming.
All egos aside, I plead that you give a different point of view some time to think about and simmer in your mind. Not now, but at least eventually some time in your life. No one here is trying to change your opinion of any music at all...just the way you go about advertising how you came to those opinions.
Hey Colin, you still with us? This was your thread after all and I'm still interested to hear what you have to say.
I meant no offense to anyone at all. One Love (b/c we're all beautiful.) Peace out.
De nada. Y gracias tambien. 8)
"The way I go about advertising these opinons". Dude, you don't even know what you're talking about yourself anymore, do you? Roller was quite happy to just accept it and we've got no hard feelings. You should too, I really have better things on my mind than discussing the finer points of rap right now. Although that PM invitation is still wide, wide open, waiting for you with open arms.