Thread: new orleans

it's going to take a lot to fix that place back up as well. It doesn't really help either that some of them are looting

man..that place is going to be screwed for a while

I disagree with you completely Jill. The reason there are such difficulties is because a lot of the people who decided to stay are also the ones looting and shooting one another as well as shooting at rescuers. I was absolutely disgusted today when I saw Jesse Jackson on TV making this an entirely political issue. It is not easy to communicate here or even get around. Of course Jesse Jackson also played the race card, but that's nothing new from him.

Hell I'm uaually the first to have a go at America's current government, but this tiem the anarchy really isn't thier fault. I am however apauled by the way some of the people in New Orleans are acting, shooting at aid helicopters, rape etc.

in a little while ther will be cholora and ecolie in luisiana

I seriously can't beleive all this... I mean the rescue effort for the tsunami was better organised than the hurricane disaster... they knew the hurricane was coming, the government should have had the army in New Orleans the day after, and maybe the chaos wouldn't have happened. Now it seems to have deteriated so much that it will be a nightmare fixing things...

I can't beleive that things have screwed up so much that there are now soldiers in there with orders to shoot to kill... but maybe nobody reliased that something so bad would happen until it was too late.

Originally posted by jill1978
I'm ashamed of my government.

Hmmm, Who stepped in last year when YOUR city was hammered so many times by Hurricanes? Yep your government. There are as many poor and impoverished people living in Florida as there are in New Orleans, Louisiana, and Mississippi.

I'm sorry if I offend, but it seems it is just to easy these days to blame the government. By the people, of the people, for the people.

Originally posted by Roller
I seriously can't beleive all this... I mean the rescue effort for the tsunami was better organised than the hurricane disaster... they knew the hurricane was coming, the government should have had the army in New Orleans the day after, and maybe the chaos wouldn't have happened. Now it seems to have deteriated so much that it will be a nightmare fixing things....

Well I think I have an explanation for this. Normally in really serious events such as this, the 256th Brigade Combat Team consisting of about 2000 or so soldiers would be called up to handle security being that its a Louisiana Army National Guard unit. Well they are actually on there way to be headed back to Louisiana from Iraq sometime next month so they weren't available. Also you have to understand that a large portion of guardsmen in that part of the state were effected badly by the storm as well so they might not have been able to answer the call. I'm not saying everything is going perfectly but its not like all the emergency people trained for how to react for this type of situation once a year. Everything being done is being figured out as they go and it will take time. We can only hope that they can hurry up with it.

I understand the looting of cloths and such is inexcuseable, but New Orleans has one of the highest crime rates in the country, considering that I think people are actually behaveing themselves pretty well. I agree also the race card is played often when not warrented, but I just dont understand. If the hurricain hit long island would it have taken our government so long.

Originally posted by Merck
The reason there are such difficulties is because a lot of the people who decided to stay are also the ones looting and shooting one another as well as shooting at rescuers.

I disagree. I don't think most of the people trapped in the city "decided to stay". Most are poor people who had no vehicles or means of leaving the city. And the city sure as hell did not provide any evacuation means for those people, other than the super-dome at the last moment when the storm was bearing down quicker than anticipated, which no doubt saved countless lives.

However, I do not think most of these people are the ones committing violence. It is estimated about 100,000 people remain trapped in the city, most of which are trapped in their homes or on their roofs. I would say the ones committing violence are in the vast minority of those remaining.

But it is saddening that some of the relief that many of the people trapped desperately need and want, is held back because of these few people.

But then I'm not really sure which is more disturbing... desperate people committing desperate acts, or you're vast criminalization of all New Orleans hurricane refugees.

Originally posted by dream-scape


I disagree. I don't think most of the people trapped in the city \"decided to stay\". Most are poor people who had no vehicles or means of leaving the city. And the city sure as hell did not provide any evacuation means for those people, other than the super-dome at the last moment when the storm was bearing down quicker than anticipated, which no doubt saved countless lives.

However, I do not think most of these people are the ones committing violence. It is estimated about 100,000 people remain trapped in the city, most of which are trapped in their homes or on their roofs. I would say the ones committing violence are in the vast minority of those remaining.

But it is saddening that some of the relief that many of the people trapped desperately need and want, is held back because of these few people.

But then I'm not really sure which is more disturbing... desperate people committing desperate acts, or you're vast criminalization of all New Orleans hurricane refugees.

dream-scape, I couldn't have said it better.. thank you.

For every act of "looting" there have been hundreds of acts of kindness by the survivors.. it just makes it easier to look the other way when you can blame the looters for the lack of urgency in providing federal aid/assistance.

I should have worded it better. My apologies. I didn't intend to imply that all the people trapped in New Orleans were criminals. You are right dream-scape that it is a minority of people that are committing these acts. It shouldn't be long now until order is restored. From what I have heard, soldiers that have been called in will surround the city and make their way in covering every area and they have been given permission to defend themselves by any means necesary. So hopefully the people who are stupid enough to shoot at rescuers and other support personnel will also be dumb enough to fire at armed soldiers so that the soldiers can take them out and help lift this burden off of society.

Originally posted by jill1978
but I just dont understand. If the hurricain hit long island would it have taken our government so long.

It is not an excuse, but the logistics of this operation are a nightmare. There was really only one good road into the place, and it was almost wiped out, so land travel was difficult. It is possible to ship stuff on the mississippi, but that takes time so water travel was difficult. People started shooting at the helicopters, so air travel was difficult.

It's just a sad situation.

Originally posted by jill1978
I understand the looting of cloths and such is inexcuseable, but New Orleans has one of the highest crime rates in the country, considering that I think people are actually behaveing themselves pretty well.

I am African American and I have watched as all of you have what is happening and my perspective may be a bit different from most of yours due to that. I try to stay out of \"racially\" toned topics as I don't want to offend and most minds are often too set in their own thinking to see the other side (mine included) but I have to say something here.. not as a \"Black\" woman but as a human being.

The majority of those who stayed there didn't stay to loot (how stupid would that be.. everythings going to be destroyed, or covered in water, people are going to die.. but hey, here's our chance to steal something)! If you watched the news, the people who stayed behind were the POOR, the ELDERLY and the SICK who either had no transportation or had no where else to go.. so they stayed hoping to ride out the storm and hold on to what little they had.

jill1978, I felt as you did at first that the looting was inexcusable and I was ashamed when that news footage aired. But then I took a step back, put myself in THEIR shoes and I came to this conclusion. The looting didn't start immediately... it was after two or three days with NO FOOD, WATER, PROTECTION and NO signs that any of it was forthcoming that the looting began.

I lay awake last night and I thought.. what if I had been in filthy water up to my waist at times for HOURS maybe days. What if my son was wet, dirty, possibly without shoes (definately without a change of clothes) and he was hungry. He doesn't know about the federal government, or the local police (who by the way had no supplies themselves) coming to help us. All he knows is that he is in need and \"I\" am his mama, his hope. If my family was in DESPARATE need and there were NO SIGNS that help was forthcoming and there was a store with dry clothes and/or a store with food to feed my son so he wouldn't starve.. call me a looter. Let's not forget they also caught POLICE OFFICERS in uniform \"looting\" but that was alright as the cops stated that they were going to give the items to survivors and that they needed to keep THEMSELVES alive.

Would I be scared to steal.. yes, would letting my family possibly die override that fear.. yes.

I then seriously thought about people who were stealing guns.. at first I couldn't understand that either. But then I put myself in THEIR shoes.. there is NO police protection, there is NO electricity so the nights are DARK and YES, there are evil people out there who take advantage of misery and there are simply weak DESPERATE people who will steal what little you have to save themselves. Would I steal a gun? I might.. I've never fired a gun in my life and don't know if I could really pull that trigger.. but to protect my family when there was no one else to do it.. I might.

There is NO excuse to shoot at rescue personnel.. are you STUPID!! I don't understand that at all.. but then again.. I see footage of people who said that they had been on rooftops for DAYS while helicopters just flew by them like they didn't see them (these are people who had taken sheets and written \"help\" in ketchup on them.. it was easy enough for the camera crews to see them). Maybe they couldn't stop and pick them up but couldn't they have dropped food/water?? Just a theory but perhaps they weren't shooting at them so much as shooting to get them to pay attention/to notice the people firing the guns??

All I know is that it's sooo easy when you are sitting home dry, fed and safe to pass judgement, we all do. But please.. just take a moment and REALLY put yourself there, feel what they must be feeling after 4 or 5 days (and counting) with no food/water/help.

Originally posted by jill1978
I agree also the race card is played often when not warrented, but I just dont understand. If the hurricain hit long island would it have taken our government so long.

I too don't understand why it took our government so long to take action. If NEWS CAMERAS could get in within hours to film the devastation then why not our troops?? If they couldn't reach them by land.. why didn't they at least make food/water/supply drops from helicopters?? It seems that only when the president was called on the lack of response and the possible RACIAL overtones that some URGENCY was felt. The USA does not have the best track record with regards to helping darker people of color.. i.e., cuban/haitian refugees, the massacre of Rwanda, etc. but to see this happen to AMERICAN citizens!? Even the news coverage was slanted. When they showed Whites coming out of a store with food.. they were TRYING TO SURVIVE.. when they showed Blacks coming out of the same store.. they were LOOTING.

That being said, is there ANY other country that I would rather live?? The answer is no. I look at it this way.. I love my child with all my heart, but are there times when he saddens/disappoints me.. of course.. but he is mine and I wouldn't trade him (or my country) for any other.

My son is a student at the University of Texas at San Antonio. He text'd me saying that he and his best friend drove 3 & 1/2 hours to Houston, Texas early Saturday morning and volunteered at the Astrodome helping to hand out clothing and supplies to the Katrina survivors being housed there.

I just wanted to share my proud "mama" moment!

People like your son who put others before themselves are the people that make this world worth living in.

Originally posted by Merck
People like your son who put others before themselves are the people that make this world worth living in.

People like my son.. and like you. Bless you Merck..

WASHINGTON, DC—In an emergency White House address Sunday, President Bush urged all people dying from several days without food and water in New Orleans to \"tap into the American entrepreneurial spirit\" and \"gnaw on their own bootstraps for sustenance. \"Government handouts are not the answer,\" Bush said. \"I believe in smaller government, which is why I have drastically cut welfare and levee upkeep. I encourage you poor folks to fill yourself up on your own bootstraps. Buckle down, and tear at them like a starving animal.\" Responding to reports that many Katrina survivors have lost everything in the disaster, Bush said, \"Only when you work hard and chew desperately on your own footwear can you live the American dream.\"[/b]

Its so horrible what has happenned. If it weren't for Bush there never would have been a hurricane Katrina.

Originally posted by Merck
Its so horrible what has happenned. *If it weren't for Bush there never would have been a hurricane Katrina.

i agree.

Originally posted by Merck
Its so horrible what has happenned. *If it weren't for Bush there never would have been a hurricane Katrina.

There would still have been a Hurricane Katrina (that was NATURE's doing) but the lack of preparation and the horrible aftermath of that storm.. well, that was all MAN-made.

It's amazing to me how slow Bush's response was to the Katrina disaster compared to how quickly he responded to fill his Chief Justice vacancy.. his reaction to one man's death as opposed to possible thousands.. (I guess it all boils down to his priorities).

Clairity wrote:

There would still have been a Hurricane Katrina (that was NATURE's doing) but the lack of preparation and the horrible aftermath of that storm.. well, that was all MAN-made. *

It's amazing to me how slow Bush's response was to the Katrina disaster compared to how quickly he responded to fill his Chief Justice vacancy.. his reaction to one man's death as opposed to possible thousands.. (I guess it all boils down to his priorities).[/b]

Good point.

It also didn't help that most of the national guard unit assigned to that area are/were deployed in Iraq. I always thought it was the National Guard, not the International Guard.

Originally posted by Clairity


There would still have been a Hurricane Katrina (that was NATURE's doing) but the lack of preparation and the horrible aftermath of that storm.. well, that was all MAN-made.

It's amazing to me how slow Bush's response was to the Katrina disaster compared to how quickly he responded to fill his Chief Justice vacancy.. *his reaction to one man's death as opposed to possible thousands.. (I guess it all boils down to his priorities).

i think you miss what was trying to be said. this was going to be a disaster no matter what puppet was in office. i love when people put spin on these sort of things. :

Originally posted by kid robot+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kid robot)</div>

i think you miss what was trying to be said. this was going to be a disaster no matter what puppet was in office. i love when people put spin on these sort of things. :[/b]

kid robot, I was not trying to put a spin on anything.. my response:

<!--QuoteBegin-Clairity
There would still have been a Hurricane Katrina (that was NATURE's doing) but the lack of preparation and the horrible aftermath of that storm.. well, that was all MAN-made.

indicated that the lack of preparation by the federal/local government (i.e., cutting funding to reinforce the levees) and then the resulting aftermath (the lack of urgency in evacuations, the treatment of those stranded, etc) was a government-made disaster. We all know that FEMA, the military and other organizations take their cue from the President. The leadership at the top during this disaster was sorely lacking.